Gotta Make Sure You Have Pass Rushers!

By Tim Knight

So here’s what we’re potentially looking at at DE/OLB/Edge types heading into FA. OV and Shelby are UFAs.

Olivier Vernon walks off the field after the loss to the Patriots. Miami Dolphins vs. New England Patriots, Gillette Stadium, Foxoboro, MA. 12-14-14. Jim Rassol, Sun Sentinel.Olivier Vernon is a very good player, but not special. If I’m in control I’m not paying him special money. He doesn’t change games.shelby



Derrick Shelby is a solid lunch pail player who can help any team.

wakeCam Wake is turning 34 years old off an Achilles injury which isn’t good for guys in their 30s. Normal science is less blood flow as we age. Wake’s game is all about explosiveness.jordan


Dion Jordan… we all know the story with him. But he has both DE and OLB talent.


Terrance Fede didn’t have the kind of year we expected but he plays hard and has some size in the lineup like Shelby.


Damontre Moore is intriguing. The Giants cut him for immaturity issues which he admitted,and like Vernon got called for dumb penalties. But he also has DE/OLB skills and he’s cheap at $700K.


Chris McCain… what is your deal? Are you just too raw, not that good, a DE or OLB?



Quinton Coples will not be back at his current $7+M per, but he could accept a substantial cut and re-sign. He’s not going to get that type of money anywhere else.

Julius Warmsley (6-2 276) – don’t know enough about him, anyone?

Jordan Williams (6-4 282) – don’t know enough about him, anyone?


A Big FU Thank You to Tim for the submission!  The rest of you guys can do it!!!!!  🙂

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397 Responses to Gotta Make Sure You Have Pass Rushers!

  1. stangerx says:

    Tim — great content and more than anything props to you for popping in up top. Have a feeling it will be a DE in the first, but mainly cause the draft board doesn’t seem to present a shutdown corner at our spot. I’d still kick the wheels on Jordan for a season though so long as his head is on straight…..not like the price is that much.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Thanks and I agree. I also don’t believe in shutdown corners, they’re kind of like unicorns, they don’t exist. LOL

      You could have a pro bowl secondary, if you don’t have a good pass rush you’re not going to stop good passing games.

      • stangerx says:

        Some corners can do that. Revis and Sanders at least could, even if the window on Revis seems past. It is a special thing…..but then looks like it won’t be there anyhow.

  2. stangerx says:

    TIm & Mike E — don’t be thinking Antonio Bastardo will be the savior of your bullpen. He’s not a bad pitcher, but more of a good support guy in the mix. He was like one of four guys we could trot out when it wasn’t Melancon or Watson time, but then that admittedly is part of why our pen was so good last year.

    • Tim Knight says:

      We needed a quality left-hander and he’s better than the guys we had.

      • stangerx says:

        Never said he wasn’t good…..just that he ain’t gonna walk into Metlife with a cape on. Was actually surprised he got the $6 mil per year though.

  3. Tim Knight says:

    Stanger, you mentioned two guys who were shutdown corners and one played over a decade ago at the end of his career. That’s how rare they are, just a like a horse with a deformity that resembles a unicorn. LOL

    • stangerx says:

      Just mentioned two to make the point that there are horses with horns do exist. And to my mind Patrick Peterson has the biggest horn out there right now. But shutdown aside, we need a #1 corner. Grimes played that well for a couple years, but seems like he is less than that now.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Not sure there are any though is what I mean. I make sure we can get after the QB first than keep looking to upgrade the corners. I think we should look at one FA CB like in Br. McCain’s tier, and draft two corners to compete with our young corners. But I want to make sure we can get to the QB first and foremost.

      • stangerx says:

        Hargreaves or Ramsey would be possibles, even if they look to be out of reach……..but it will still shake up. We’ll see what the list is after the combine. Still put CB right up there with DE on the wish list though.

  4. Tim Knight says:

    Stanger, I wasn’t saying Antonio Bastardo is going to shut everyone down. He’s just better than what we had and we needed a quality lefty. Also $6M per is nothing for a left-handed reliever. They’re hard to find.

    • stangerx says:

      He ain’t a closer though, or at least hasn’t been one. Maybe he shows more, but I didn’t get the feel for that…..his mind drifts at times when the pressure is on.

  5. Mike E. says:


    We needed a lefty that can be a set up guy. I don’t think either Tim or I think Bastardo is the end all, he’s just a potential set up guy. We only have 2 other lefties in the BP, and they’re both coming off injuries (Blevins-twice broken arm) (Edgin-Tommy John), so we really need another guy in the mix no matter what. I saw him pitch last year, he’s competent, not great.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Right. At this time Blevins and Edgin are hopefuls.

      Hopefully we’ll get a surprise from the minors for some more bullpen help as well. Maybe Robles and/or Montero.

    • stangerx says:

      ” competent, not great” is exactly what he is. Just trying to tell you guys that. Definitely someone you want in the pen though.

  6. Tim Knight says:

    Stanger, a lot of people feel Ramsey will be a great safety but just good as a corner. I do think both Hargreaves or Ramsey could be there for us at #8. Once the QBs get slotted, then the OTs and pass rushers, everything will get pushed down.

    • stangerx says:

      I don’t know anything about them other than seeing where they are slotted in the current mocks. Do know I want legit choices for us at both DE and CB (and heck if Ramsey becomes a kick ass playmaking safety we need another one of those too).

      • Tim Knight says:

        People question Ramsey’s overall speed. He has everything else. He might be one of those guys you can do a lot of things with. I wouldn’t be against drafting him as a safety and matchup guy in nickel and dime.He’ll be on the field all the time.

  7. Tim Knight says:

    I added up the numbers. Our RBs averaged 18.125 rushes per game combined. Pathetic!!!

    • Mike E. says:

      Most importantly, we quit on it many times when it was working well, and the game wasn’t out of reach. That’s the most disturbing issue with it. It’s not like NE, where they almost have to pass, because they don’t run well, but they pass very well.

      • Tim Knight says:

        True, and the Pats RBs averaged 21 rushers per game and they had a weird year with injuries. They lost their two starting RBs. We didn’t.

        I also feel that Brady is obviously better suited to throw more. He’s been running that offense for over a decade and they have Gronk. Also Edelman is so good on those quick routes they like to run.

      • Mike E. says:

        Yeah, when they have both on the field they’re much more dangerous.

  8. Al in MIA says:

    wyoming85 says:
    January 21, 2016 at 7:13 am

    Let the Jokes begin!

    Vic Carucci ‏@viccarucci 10h10 hours ago
    #Bills officially announce that Kathryn Smith has been hired as ST quality control coach. #NFL’s first full-time female assistant.
    Here comes Incognito with his golf clubs :/

  9. Al in MIA says:

    I’d be pretty disappointed if the Fins draft a CB with their top pick.
    FS covers more ground sideline to sideline and thus to me can make a bigger impact (if he’s elite) because his job is more than covering a #1 WR. With that said, I guess Ramsey at FS would work for me but DB are those kind of positions you can find in RD 2 and such. Also, even if the Fins had Revis right now, their D would still suck because he can’t cover everyone (the front 7 have to create the pressure for the DB to make plays). The most glaring weakness appears to be at LB and with edge rusher but DE can be solved by re-signing/restructuring guys or finding a UFA to cover for a departing DE.

    • D says:

      Id be extremely disappointed Dolphins went ILB in the first with out at least trading back and picking up some picks. In fact there are only 3 players id stay put at 8 for. Hargreaves, Ramsey and Tunsil.

    • Tim Knight says:

      That’s why I posted this article, we have so many questions at DE and edge pass rush. Also good pass rushers aren’t cheap and some of the guys I mentioned are not big time pass rushers to begin with including Vernon.

  10. D says:

    Albert played in 14 games, he started and finished like 12. He played hurt and you could see it affected him in a few games but i think he was pushing through it to ensure the idea that he cant stay healthy wouldnt continue

    Mike im not a cap guy. Im not always looking to make cap space. I really like Albert, you probably scanned through the part i wrote about how elite he is and what i think about his LT skills, suffice to say if you had read it you would know i wasn’t looking to get rid of him.

    I have been torn on the idea, on one hand you lose an elite level player and on the other, you gamble with a guy who likely misses at least a few games a year. I cant say he wont make it through a whole year, but can you tell me truthfully you think there is a high probability he will? Last three years he has PLAYED in, nor completed, 12, 9, and 14 games. Just from that you would have to lean towards he isnt going to make it through the whole year.

    That said, whats your preference? I prefer moving on right now to a younger guy who has no injury history, 0 games missed in 4 years, giving them the same money as Albert to give some stability to a group that hasn’t had any in years. Its not about saving cap money, because im actually going more against the cap by doing it, im saying this because i care that we have as few questions about the OL as possible.

    • Tim Knight says:

      That’s a lateral move and no guarantee of the same level of play and it could be worse. We’re not in a position to get rid of our better OL for unknowns.

  11. Al in MIA says:

    Any U of Miami FS – Dion Bush fans? I like his instincts and quite frankly he probably wasn’t taught anything meaningful by the worst DC on the FBS planet -> D’Onofrio.

  12. Mike E. says:


    I would love to draft a T, a quality one at that. I’ve been saying that for over a year. If Albert is healthy all season, maybe the guy we drafted to play T can play G for a season, we need as much quality as we can get on that O-line.

    • Tim Knight says:

      We drafted an OT in the 1st rd in 2014.

      • Mike E. says:

        Yes, but I knew Albert was hurt last year, and knew we needed better depth. The O-line killed us this year when James went down, and before that, Albert was out for a couple of game, and basically wasn’t right until the 5th game. We can draft all the pass rushers in the world, it won’t protect Tannehill,

    • D says:

      The risk of the draft is does the guy pan out. Generally the LT’s i the first round do, some take a little while to get going but it usually happens. I think thats why im leaning towards Glenn in FA as a replacement. more expensive option but the guy is proven. He has started at LT since game 3 of his rookie year and never looked back.

  13. Mike E. says:


    We drafted 2 CB’s in 2013, does that mean we don’t need to draft a CB now? We do need to think about Albert and his health, and ability to play every game, and if we draft a T early, at a minimum it gives us insurance, as well as a player to eventually replace Albert.

    • D says:

      Im good with a LT in the first, and if Tunsil somehow falls for us id love that pick. I do think CB and DE are also strong needs but Mike is right, we need to draft a guy to be at very least eventual replacement for Albert potentially even this year. Tim you are also right we need DE on that same level. Why ya think i brought up the trading a future first or future second along with other this year picks, to get back into the first round to get another stud player, like Lawson or Bullard. We have some really strong needs at some really important positions.

      Also Tim you seem to talk about DE and CB as if DE helps CB but its not the other way around. Id say that its more the other way around because a lot of systems these days use quick passes, pretty much nullifying even the best pass rush. Without great CB’s you have a guy open and the ball comes out before they get to him, the better the CB’s the more likely he has to run deeper into the read progression, the more time for the ball to come out, and the more sacks you get. They feed off one another but it starts with great coverage.

  14. D says:

    Tim Knight says:
    January 21, 2016 at 3:16 pm
    That’s a lateral move and no guarantee of the same level of play and it could be worse. We’re not in a position to get rid of our better OL for unknowns.
    Tim how is it unknown. He’s a 4 year starter, never missed a game and one of the Top LT every year. Thats a pretty proven track record.

    • D says:

      Was Albert an unknown when we signed him?

    • Tim Knight says:

      Who, you didn’t mention a name? It’s also a lateral move that doesn’t change anything going into the season. The idea is to add more good players, not keep replacing good players who you already have. That’s going in circles.

  15. Al in MIA says:

    Agree on ILB as high as 8 since there is no real Patrick Willis type out there to warrant such a high pick. Edge LB who can use their speed are just as valuable as edge DE IMO because both can pass rush effectively and also disrupt stretch plays along their side. One is more of a power position of course but hey both are important on same side of field and both can create pressure in different ways. That said, I am favoring these days a move of Misi to the middle with the drafting of UCLA’s Myles Jack.

  16. Tim Knight says:

    Mike E, we signed Albert in 2014 and draft James 1st rd the same year. How many resources do you want them to use on the same position within two years? Hickey had to use most of his top resources in 2014 on the OL because of the mess Ireland left it in. He also used a 3rd on Turner.

    I know it sucks the situation we’re in, but there is only so much you can do in 2 years.

    • Mike E. says:

      Who cares what they did? Not sure why anything we’ve done matters? We drafted a DE with the 3rd pick in 2013, but you want to draft another DE at #8? How does that make any more or less sense than what I’m saying? The O-line sucks! It’s BUSTED. The difference is you’re willing to the roll the dice with Albert, I’m hesitant to do that. You continually say OT’s can’t play their first year, but can’t see that drafting one to replace Albert next year is important? There’s a disconnect somewhere there Tim

  17. Mike E. says:

    Good point D in your 3:33PM post. We need CB’s that play right up on receivers, and can stay with them on those short quick routes.

  18. Al in MIA says:

    The OL situation is a mixed bag.
    I often here people say ‘it sucks’ etc.
    The Fins were very efficient at running; they just didn’t do it as often as they passed.
    If a OL truly sucks, they wouldn’t be able to run block either.
    There are several forces at play in why they aren’t consistent at pass blocking.
    Talent is one of them; protection schemes is another, and I’m sorry to say it but QB play in the pocket is another albeit lesser issue.

    • Tim Knight says:

      It is a lot of things and I’ve mentioned all of it all season. But our interior guys got run over way too often in pass pro. That’s personnel. I said many times we run it pretty well so why do we treat it like the plague? I came to the conclusion that offense was broken from top to bottom all season.

      Hopefully Gase makes Lazor look like even more of an idiot. LOL

  19. D says:

    Al in MIA says:
    January 21, 2016 at 3:28 pm
    Agree on ILB as high as 8 since there is no real Patrick Willis type out there to warrant such a high pick. Edge LB who can use their speed are just as valuable as edge DE IMO because both can pass rush effectively and also disrupt stretch plays along their side. One is more of a power position of course but hey both are important on same side of field and both can create pressure in different ways. That said, I am favoring these days a move of Misi to the middle with the drafting of UCLA’s Myles Jack.
    Have ya looked at Deon Jones from LSU. More i watch more i really like this guy. Watch LSU vs Texas Tech bowl game. Dude is all over the place in coverage, shutting down the sweeps and screens. He has been consistently good this year but was on fire that game. Really high motor guy too. Ive seen what Jack can do and he is a really great player, only thing that makes me nervous is that injury. That shit looked pretty bad, and i havent heard anything about his recovery status to know if he is bouncing back from it. Guess we will know come combine.

  20. D says:

    Tim Knight says:
    January 21, 2016 at 3:34 pm
    Who, you didn’t mention a name? It’s also a lateral move that doesn’t change anything going into the season. The idea is to add more good players, not keep replacing good players who you already have. That’s going in circles.
    Ive mentioned a name multiple times now….Cordy Glenn.

    • D says:

      How is it going in circles to upgrade a position, its an upgrade to have a guy a full year instead of scrambling to fill his spot and having games where his replacement gives up multiple sacks in those games.

    • Tim Knight says:

      You made it seem like just some young guy. I don’t remember everything you say. LOL

  21. Tim Knight says:

    Mike E, you’re losing me with your logic. You only play two tackles at a time, you could play 6 corners at once.

    And seriously on the DE situation with Jordan? You didn’t see that coming, you went out and bought his friggin jersey. LOL

    The big issue was we lost Albert for more than half of 2014 than James in 2015. Nobody has a crystal ball.

    Why does Albert need to be replaced next year, he’s 31, not 36?

    • Mike E. says:

      Tim – My logic is, Dion Jordan isn’t working, and may never work out. But bringing up that we drafted a DE in 2013 doesn’t make the position any less of a need NOW, does it? So we drafted a T in 2014. he was hurt last year, and he wasn’t playing that great when he wasn’t hurt, but of course, not as bad as Fox. I think saying that we drafted a T in’14 has nothing to do with what we need in ’16. That’s my point.

      • Tim Knight says:

        I bet you 100% of the teams would never draft an OT high a year after signing a top FA LT and drafting a RT in the 1st the year prior. Our depth is a concern but man how can you keep putting top resources in that same position when we just did it?

  22. Al in MIA says:

    Mike E. says:
    January 21, 2016 at 3:36 pm

    Good point D in your 3:33PM post. We need CB’s that play right up on receivers, and can stay with them on those short quick routes.

    That’s a scheme issue. If the HC/DC want to play man to man, you employ man to man cover type CB (they aren’t the same as zone scheme DB though the better the talent the more you can do both). I heard Tannenbaum a few years ago on NFL Network during draft talk that he woiuldn’t have drafted Revis if Rex ran a zone corner scheme. He said Rex asked him to find the best man to man corner and that Revis was that for him.

    • D says:

      It is a scheme thing, but Cincy plays press and man, so im going with thats the scheme Jospeh likely goes with. Zone is risky to be your primary scheme, most only mix in zone, but primarily run man, and press-man against teams like NE or NYG who get rid of it so fast.

  23. D says:

    Tim Knight says:
    January 21, 2016 at 3:42 pm
    You made it seem like just some young guy. I don’t remember everything you say. LOL
    I mentioned the name several times …..Today. Your ADD acting up again?

    • Tim Knight says:

      Sorry, you could have easily mentioned his name in the post I replied too. If you did I would have had a different reply.

  24. D says:

    If we keep Wake on a restructure, or resign Shelby, i would still think we need a stud DE but id fee a lot more comfortable with us taking one in maybe the 2nd. If we keep Grimes, id be more comfortable with CB dropping into the 2nd. I see the first one as a MUCH more likely situation, so thats why i am focusing on CB in the first.

    • Al in MIA says:

      I think they keep Grimes. Based on current 2016 $ ranking on cap hit for CB; Grimes ranks 12th at 9.5 million (tied with Ravens CB Ladarius Webb).

      • D says:

        They could also do with him though, what im suggesting with Albert, dump him/trade him in favor of a guy like Janoris Jenkins who winds up costing the same amount, young, on the upswing, more dependable.

  25. Al in MIA says:

    I agree with press scheme. That’s my preferred style; leave the zone shit for safeties lol.

  26. getterdone says:

    Al, Yes on Deon Bush from the U!
    If he can still be had late, then it’s a homerun>>>IMO.
    His skill set is tremendous for the position as a FS. He’d learn quickly in a Vance Joseph secondary.

    • D says:

      Ive been working him into some of my recent mocks, going CB in the first, DE in the second and then FS in the 3rd or 4th. Sometimes i work it into the second and take Jalen Mills who i think is probably one of the better coverage safeties.

  27. Al in MIA says:

    Everyone on the CB 2016 cap hit ranking list between 1-25 is getting paid ~$7 mill or more in 2016.

  28. D says:

    Deon Bush so far hasnt accepted the invite for Senior Bowl so dont know if ill be able to see him but Jeremy Cash, and Darian Thompson, Deandre Houston-Carson, are all going to be there. Lots of other mid round prospects too.

    • getterdone says:

      Thompson & Carson are considered among the top 3 candidates and will go too early for my liking when we have bigger needs…IMO.

      That’s why I’m hoping for a guy with the skill of Bush to be there later in the draft. Also a guy like BC’s Justin Simmons or GA Tech Jamal Golden.

  29. getterdone says:

    I want Grimes gone because of that damn thing he calls a wife!

    But with that said, all this talk about shut down corners being rare, well Grimes is near being a shutdown corner.
    Yes he had some tough games this year, got beat some, but he also made some big plays as well as defended a lot of passes when they sometimes rarely got thrown his way.

    Grimes could have a nice bounce back year in a better system, better ran Defense than what crap Coyle installed years ago.

    Based on him being ranked as 12th in money @ CB, then it might be good to hang onto him, maybe even see if he would restructure some. (which Miko would say Hell Naw)! 🙄

  30. Al in MIA says:

    Yes to Deion Jones as well….LSU defenders have had a good run in the NFL …Kwon Alexander last year had the same size as Jones (6-1 227 prior to draft) and Kwon had a very good rookie year (NFL all rookie honors) getting 93 tackles despite missing 4 games due to suspension. Hell, Alexander did that starting 12 games at MLB!

    • D says:

      Jones FLYS around the field. I really like him. I like his buddy Kendall Beckwith and if we landed both i feel really certain they would start for us day 1.

  31. Tim Knight says:

    Listening now to Troy Aikman on with Mike Francessa – when he was 17 the Mets were trying to lure him into their org over football. He said baseball was his first love but started to realize at the higher levels he struggled hitting breaking stuff. Before the draft the Mets asked him one more time what will it take to get you here and he said $250K not even knowing what that figure meant. The Mets said Daryl Strawberry who was their best prospect doesn’t even make that, so they wished him good luck and that was the end of it. LOL

  32. D says:

    Damn the LB’s that have accepted invites to Senior Bowl is STOUT.

    Kentrell Brothers Missouri
    Josh Forrest Kentucky
    Deion Jones LSU
    Nick Kwiatkoski West Virginia
    Blake Martinez Stanford
    Tyler Matakevich Temple
    Antonio Morrison Florida
    Jared Norris Utah
    Kyler Fackrell Utah State
    Jordan Jenkins Georgia
    Joshua Perry Ohio State
    Reggie Ragland Alabama
    Joe Schobert Wisconsin
    Eric Striker Oklahoma

    I have looked at every single one of these guys for potentials at LB’s for us.

    • Al in MIA says:

      The Dolphins won’t have to go far to get an evaluation on Jenkins (UMiami’s Mark Richt)

      • D says:

        I had Jenkins penciled in to us last year before he decided to return for his senior year. I dont know that it helped him much he is about the same draft projection as he was last year.

  33. Al in MIA says:

    Alright D & GDP,
    Now that we have Bush & Jones on the radar…let’s find strategies to get DJ White, Deon Bush, & Deion Jones LOL.

  34. getterdone says:

    Speaking of LSU defenders, CB Rashard Robinson is very good, has the length @ 6’2 for today’s bigger receivers we face.
    His skill set and decent speed make him a good get that we can find in the later rounds due to him getting kicked off the team for breaking into a students apt to retrieve his laptop that the student stole from him. Not like a drug or assault charge, so he can be put back on track easily one would think.
    But because of it, he’s very under the radar at this point.

  35. Al in MIA says:

    D says:
    January 21, 2016 at 4:25 pm

    Yeah thats an awesome article i really like the guy.
    I loved reading this part:
    “”The first day on campus, I came in 196. I can remember it like yesterday going against (former LSU offensive linemen La’el Collins and Elliott Porter) at the first morning practice and it was not fun when you’re not even 200 pounds.”

    LOL, boot camp DIV 1 style…

  36. Tim Knight says:

    The way the game is played, the only LBs worthy of a high 1st rd grade are 3 down players who can play well in all phases. Does anyone fit that bill?

  37. D says:

    Jalen Mills will also be at the Senior bowl, they had him listed under DC, which is CB.

  38. Al in MIA says:

    I haven’t had a chance to look at Rashard Robinson closley but we all know the LSU CB alumni in the NFL …they rock.

    • getterdone says:

      Yes, they do. I’m sure Grier is looking closely at him too.

    • Al in MIA says:

      The Fins can ask Landry as well what he thinks about him lol

    • D says:

      Its why i really like Jalen Mills….. their DB track record is AWESOME.

      Its also why i wouldnt mind taking a shot at Claiborne the former no 6 overall pick by the Cowboys, who they just gave up on. He’s a FA this year and would be really cheap pickup. His former position coach is now ours too, so even if the organization didnt believe in him, he should know best if he is worth a look.

      Patrick Peterson, Honey Badger, Eric Reed, all recent products out of LSU, all from same coaching staff as Mills and Claiborne.

  39. D says:

    getterdone says:
    January 21, 2016 at 4:27 pm
    Speaking of LSU defenders, CB Rashard Robinson is very good, has the length @ 6’2 for today’s bigger receivers we face.
    His skill set and decent speed make him a good get that we can find in the later rounds due to him getting kicked off the team for breaking into a students apt to retrieve his laptop that the student stole from him. Not like a drug or assault charge, so he can be put back on track easily one would think.
    But because of it, he’s very under the radar at this point.
    At LSU thats pretty mild lol.

  40. getterdone says:

    FSU Terrance Smith is another later round gem @ LB. He’s played both Mike & Will after Telvin Smith left for the NFL.
    He was in the draft mix last year but decided to stay his senior year. He has great burst & is very aggressive in both run & pass cvgs.

  41. D says:

    Cyrus Jones out of Alabama is a decent later round CB, and he comes with excellent return skills.

  42. getterdone says:

    D, Claiborne is an enigma that hasn’t been able to stay healthy. I wouldn’t spend much to sign him. But he is young(25) & had a ton of talent @ LSU.

  43. Al in MIA says:

    Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler) | Twitter 22 mins ago

    Bummer. #MichiganState DE Shilique Calhoun is OUT of the Senior Bowl due to a minor injury. Was going to play DE and LB there.

    • getterdone says:

      Good, he’s a guy I like and could drop a bit now. We’ll have many ways to go in this draft w/o trading up anywhere. I’d rather pick up an extra pick or two in one of the first 4 rounds.

  44. Mike E. says:


    It seems like you’re looking at Albert as if he’s a perfect physical specimen of health. he had a major knee injury, and he somehow toughed out 14 games this year, but I can’t bank on him for 2017 and beyond like you do. I’d keep him this year, but draft his replacement this year if he’s sitting there for us at #8, or if there’s a guy with upside in the 2nd or 3rd, maybe that instead. Bryant McKinnie was kind of like Albert, but he was always healthy, and stopped at 34. I think Albert might be done at 32. It’s not far fetched

    • Mike E. says:

      Also – If we’re going down the road of what 100% of teams would or wouldn’t do, 100% of teams wouldn’t have paid Suh what we’re paying for him, and that’s proven, because we have him.

      • Mike E. says:

        In 2017, Albert’s dead cap hit falls all the way to $3.4M

      • getterdone says:

        So as I’ve mentioned we keep him 1 more year, & draft a OT to groom for 2017.

      • Tim Knight says:

        That’s apples and oranges and teams were interested in Suh.

        A better comparison would be using our #8 on a DT this year after we signed one in 2014 in Mitchell, Suh in 2015 and Phillips in the 2bd rd in 2015.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Anything is possible. I said sign an upgrade at OT in FA and go from there. I would not use a high draft pick on his backup who can maybe play guard though. It sounds good, but probably not as easy to find. I would just target that guy the year I need to replace him.

      Any player can get his knee rolled up on. His durability is a little over exaggerated. He plays much more than he doesn’t but it comes off as if it’s the opposite. This is a tough game and lots of players miss time. It’s not exclusive to him. Look at how many of the top WRs we all discussed last draft that didn’t or barely played.

      We just disagree on how to deal with OT heading into 2016 and that’s okay. You can’t build your team always worried about injuries and their replacements.

      • Mike E. says:

        Yes, it seems we disagree on the LT situation. To add, it’s not that any player can get his knee rolled onto, it’s that Albert did, and he required major reconstructive surgery. That’s what worries me.

      • getterdone says:

        KC’s LT Donald Stephenson could come reasonable in FA. He’s 27 & has remained relatively healthy.
        I’m sure Albert would love to see him coming for his job again….LOL
        It would really push Albert & give us depth & future.

  45. Al in MIA says:

    Just got done watching some film on Georgia Southern LB Antwione Williams…
    I’m impressed. This guy knows how to hunt down his target.

  46. getterdone says:

    FA Bengals Safety Reggie Nelson was ’32’ for the entire 2015 season & led the NFL with 8 INT’s & double digit PD’s.

    Gives us hope that we now have Cincy’s DB coach as our DC now.

  47. wyoming85 says:

    The Draft Wire ‏@thedraftwire 7h7 hours ago
    Everything on interior OL at the @seniorbowl … by @JonahTulsNFL

  48. Al in MIA says:

    Mike E,
    I can’t speak for Tim but I’m one of those that believes you have to trust the process when it comes to injured players.
    It’s one thing if the same injury is affecting Albert year in and year out but he’s had a little bit of bad luck there; not suffering the same injury in each instance. Major knee injury last season and this year he had some hamstring injury that kept him out of games. He suffered a knee injury in SD but he came back the next game.

  49. Al in MIA says:

    Mike E,
    To put things into perspective, Albert played more games than James this year and a knee injury is generally worse than a toe injury lmfao.

  50. wyoming85 says:

    NFLPA Bowl Game ‏@NFLPABowl 30m30 minutes ago
    Norfolk State’s Deon King seeks to turn heads at #NFLPABowl @NSUSpartans

  51. getterdone says:

    Armando Salguero @ArmandoSalguero
    Steve Young’s analogy on injured Peyton Manning: “I’m a world renowned brain surgeon. But my hands are shaking.”
    LOL, Go Broncos!

  52. Mike E. says:


    Actually, I think the big problem when one part of your body fails you is that you are more likely to injure another body part compensating. That’s how you hurt a hammy, when you’re knee is stiff and painful. I just don’t trust him to last beyond this year, if that. Just how I see it man.

  53. Tim Knight says:

    Mike E, should i mention every player who has had an unfortunate knee injury so we can all hold a grudge against them? It happened to Brady and he’ll be 39 next year. I know he’s a QB but he also gets attacked every play.

    Shouldn’t the fact that Albert played in 14 games off the knee injury give you some promise?

  54. Al in MIA says:

    I wasn’t impressed or intrigued by many of the coaching hires the Fins but Vance intrigues.
    He’s not a Bengals lifer like Coyle was and he had stints in the SF & Houston organizations who had at least 1 very good year while he was at each stop. Clyde Christensen intrigues as well; both he and Gase had OC titles with Manning at QB at some point in their careers (Clyde at Indy in 2010; got fucked in 2011 without Manning and a 3rd string QB while the franchise tanked for Luck LOL).

    • getterdone says:

      Yep, I agree. Vance has learned from a few different stops, and Cincy has always had a good defense under Lewis & Zimmer, whom Vance also learned from.

      Clyde is said to be a great people guy & very smart. He’ll take a lot of pressure off of Gase & have a lot of nice input as well.

    • Tim Knight says:

      VJ coached under Nolan in SF and Phillips in HOU who both ran 3-4 defenses. I hope we use multiple fronts and start drafting players who can do multiple things. I don’t like one dimensional players because in today’s game you need to be able to use different matchups. And if that blows some players minds, get new players. Football is not that complex.

      • getterdone says:

        Also helps when QB’s like Rodgers are trying to catch you in a certain look personnel wise & changes to quick snaps to prevent substitutions.

  55. Al in MIA says:

    I just feel Albert gets the ‘old’ tag often but it’s not his fault the team has no depth behind him.
    If they had anything but Fox at RT we probably wouldn’t be hearing so much bitching about Albert’s injury.

    • getterdone says:

      That & if we got better play out of the 2 young OG’s that a 2nd & 3rd pick pick was squandered on.
      Their horrible play just puts Albert in a bad light as he gets lumped in with a bad OL.

      Plus too many injuries all along the OL, including Pouncey yet again.

  56. wyoming85 says:

    Matty I ‏@TheMattyI 4m4 minutes ago
    Fact: Ryan Tannehill had 930 passing yards combined on passes that traveled at least 20 yards beyond LOS in the air – 7th most in NFL in ’15

  57. Al in MIA says:

    Mike E,
    Unlike Long, Albert came back this season and didn’t tear his ACL again.
    Hamstring injuries happen all the time to various players and when they do happen, the players are never allowed to let it heal 100% since you can play through the soreness (post injury soreness). It takes 3-4 weeks of idle time to heal a hamstring injury 100%.

  58. Tim Knight says:

    GD, I don’t think Albert needs to be pushed. The guy worked his ass off to come back and if you ever heard him talk, motivation is not what he needs. Injury concerns is all he has to overcome.

    • getterdone says:

      I didn’t say he needs to be pushed, but competition is healthy for everyone & we do need a contingency plan @ back up OT.
      Stephenson shouldn’t cost a fortune and lets us worry more about drafting OL later in the draft & key on defense early.

      • Al in MIA says:

        Agree but Stephenson can probably find starter money somewhere. His agent will push for that. What will be more interesting is what I posted already and that is a scenario where the team finds a new RT and moves James inside.

  59. Al in MIA says:

    Douglas needs to have a big off season so that he can push for LG starter or something next season. Someone has to be able to make it as a suitable starter out of Turner & Douglas (i think it will be Douglas sooner than Turner). I’ve heard rumors around the net about the possibility of moving James inside to OG but not sure how realistic that is.

    • getterdone says:

      Douglas should get better in his 2nd year, and yes I too have mentioned him as our future LG. Turner may still develop @ RG, but may be better suited as a swingman, he does have OT experience from college.
      But as for moving James inside…hell no, that would not be wise…IMO. He’s showed he can be one of the best @ RT. Leave him be!

      • getterdone says:

        Also Gase will help by making sensible play calling, installing sensible routes for the receivers, and balancing the run. This should help the OL a lot.

  60. D says:

    GDP, you would pick up a guy like Stephenson in FA over Glenn?

    • getterdone says:

      I like Glenn better, but he’s going to cost a bundle & will have more suitors than Stephenson.
      Depends on how our cap looks after some cuts are made & see what direction the team is going in with personnel.

      • D says:

        If you get a guy like Glenn you cut/trade Albert. With the way Aponte works the cap system, they probably could get Glenn on his first year for about the same money we save cutting Albert. I think Glenn is going to be around 10-12 mil per, so so they could probably get that first year down a good bit, roll the rest of the first year back to year 4 or 5 and end up with a guy who they pay roughly the same per year as Albert for the majority of his contract.

  61. Mike E. says:


    I have no problem with picking up Glenn other than what it will cost, and if it’s possible with our cap. Then we can draft defense all day.

    • D says:

      If we cut Wake, Grimes and most the other guys with heavy contracts we wind up with about 30mil cap space. With that much we can get either a top FA LT or CB and probably at least one top OG. After that it sets the direction for the draft. You go CB in FA, then you take a LT or DE in the first and the other in the second. You take Glenn, opens ya up to draft CB/DE and the other in the second and you have 5 extra mil cap space to potentially get a solid vet ILB, though after i was looking at those guys most the top ones are 3-4 ILB’s.

  62. Mike E. says:


    That makes a lot of sense to me

  63. The Flying Pig says:

    D says:

    January 21, 2016 at 4:22 pm (Edit)

    Damn the LB’s that have accepted invites to Senior Bowl is STOUT.

    Kentrell Brothers Missouri
    Josh Forrest Kentucky
    Deion Jones LSU
    Nick Kwiatkoski West Virginia
    Blake Martinez Stanford
    Tyler Matakevich Temple
    Antonio Morrison Florida
    Jared Norris Utah
    Kyler Fackrell Utah State
    Jordan Jenkins Georgia
    Joshua Perry Ohio State
    Reggie Ragland Alabama
    Joe Schobert Wisconsin
    Eric Striker Oklahoma

    I have looked at every single one of these guys for potentials at LB’s for us.

  64. The Flying Pig says:

    You guys think Cordy Glenn is better than Branden Albert?

    • Tim Knight says:

      I don’t have an issue with Albert after coming back from knee surgery and playing in 14 games. He didn’t re-injure the knee which was a good sign. Some guys blow it again.

    • Mike E. says:

      I don’t think D thinks he’s better, but he’s a safer bet to finish the next 5 seasons, without a significant drop off. I’ll let him answer that though. lol

      • Tim Knight says:

        Or Glenn gets his knee rolled up on and we’re right back where we were in 2014 and 2015. LOL

  65. Tim Knight says:

    GD, you did say push Albert but I get the rest of your point. 😉

    “KC’s LT Donald Stephenson could come reasonable in FA. He’s 27 & has remained relatively healthy.
    I’m sure Albert would love to see him coming for his job again….LOL
    It would really push Albert & give us depth & future.”

  66. The Flying Pig says:

    I don’t want to cut the whole team to sign 1 or 2 free agents
    Don’t you guy think that’s why we are where we are to begin with?

    Can we just bring in good players through the draft and build some consistency
    instead of cutting contracts and bringing in new contracts we will be cutting again in a couple of years

    Albert’s contract is 2 years old…

    • Tim Knight says:

      I said the same thing earlier. Doing that is going in circles.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        I just want to bring guys in through the draft
        we will cut some vets eventually if we draft well

        bring some cost effective free agents
        no big contracts

        let’s build on the roster we have
        not overhaul it

  67. Tim Knight says:

    Al, I don’t see James moving inside. Just find a starter quality guard and let the youngins compete for the other spot.

  68. Mike E. says:


    Albert could slip on Joe Toledo coming out of the whirlpool and be done for the season. lol

  69. herdfan says:

    Sooooo, is everyone ready for the blizzard????

    • Mike E. says:

      As long as they close my office and I don’t have to go in, SURE!!!

      • herdfan says:

        It’s not supposed to start here until around 10 am from what I see on the news. Hopefully they let us go home early if it starts getting really bad.

  70. Tim Knight says:

    Piggy, I agree. Add players and let the competition decide the 53. When you release a bunch of players or don’t bring them back you’re creating voids that NEED to be replaced and you create new depth voids again. Too many fans are worried about the cap and just want new, new, new. LOL

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I’ve said it before
      I don’t might spending in free agency

      in fact it may be your only chance to bring in blue chip players

      but signing guys and then cutting them within a couple of years to sign new guys
      Are we really going to get any better that way

      You can bring guys in
      I don’t know think teams should be so eager to discard guys

      for me that is a big part of why we have been 8-8
      and actually getting worse

      Maximize the draft
      get production out of young players
      keep vets until they get beat out by the competition
      that should be the model IMO

      I don’t think moving money around to bring in different guys works really well
      and that is what it feels like when we cut guys to create cap room

  71. Mike E. says:

    Hold on a second – Aren’t a lot of these players the same guys that helped us to 8-8, 7-9, 7-9, 6-10? Now we have to keep them? Who can’t we do without?

    • The Flying Pig says:

      A lot of guys we discarded helped us to those records too

      no individual player got us a record

      but I’m guessing the philosophy of getting rid of guys to bring in new guys is what gets us those records

      ex A
      Dansby + Burnett for Wheeler and Ellerbee

    • Tim Knight says:

      That’s not the point. You’re trying to get better by adding players to the good players you already have and let it work itself out. When you create more and more voids now you have NEEDS and have to replace them or you’ll be worse. They call that gutting the team. Then you can’t go after some other positions because you had to replace your voids.

      Unless you’re willing to take that approach and take another step back this year to retool for 2017?

      Replacing Albert with Glenn does not upgrade the LT position in a way where you corrected a problem. Depth at tackle and guards are the problem. It’s a lateral move that doesn’t make any sense to me.

  72. Tim Knight says:

    Oy! Albert was not the problem this year. He played well once he got back into game shape. Man you guys are barking up the wrong tree. I think I will cut it down. LOL

  73. The Flying Pig says:

    I don’t think he had a pro bowl year (Or Pouncey) either
    but I think he is the kind of player than produce a pro bowl year in 2017 or 2018 or beyond
    the guy is talented
    just not always healthy

    • Tim Knight says:

      Albert made the Pro Bowl out of respect for his game. He was our best OL this year. He wasn’t the problem. The interior and Fox was. Improve the guard position and upgrade over Fox. How hard is it to find a G better than what we had and a OT better than Fox? That should be the focus, not replacing the quality players.

      Pouncey was excellent in the run game when we did it and was solid in pass pro. But poor guard play does not allow Pouncey to be the best he can be. An OL works as a unit, not as individuals like say a WR. The OL also needs continuity so let’s keep changing it up like we’ve been doing because that has worked so well. I really don’t get that thinking.

      The one thing we have not done is find a solid 5 we can roll with for years. Yes injuries have hurt that progression too. But Albert was not a problem most of this season. He missed weeks 3 and 4 due to fatigue off the knee injury and compensating for it because he didn’t have much of a chance to get into football shape and had a hammy or calf injury, don’t remember exactly. From that point on he was really solid.

  74. The Flying Pig says:

    I’m sure we have to make some salary moves
    but I think some of these players than have contributed in the past and played well
    might not have done much this year
    but that doesn’t mean they don’t next year

    The nfl is full of guys that have good and bad years
    in 2013 Rob Gronksowki played in 7 games
    and now look at him

    You just can’t give up on guys after a bad year for them individually

    most players don’t get better and better and better

    Its one thing to give up on a guy that has never produced

    but guys like Albert, Grimes and wake have pro bowls under their belt

    are they getting old – yes
    but I see a log of good teams retaining their players through thick and thin

    if you are trying to get better – the focus cannot be on who you lose
    its who you add

    we are not better with less
    we are better with more

    You would take out sugar to make something sweeter would you?

  75. Mike E. says:

    Who’s getting rid of good players? I didn’t hear anyone say get rid of Jones, Landry, Parker. I heard one alternative for Albert, and I think that’s just a younger player with slightly less skill, but a much more stable outlook. I’d get rid of Grimes, if you mean that, but I don’t think he’s worth $9M + and another year older, and he can’t cover the guys in our division, so I can wave buh-bye to him

    • Tim Knight says:

      OV and Shelby are UFAs, Wake is a ? off the Achilles, people have mentioned replacing both Mitchell and Misi for cap purposes, Sheppard is a UFA even if he’s mediocre at best, replace Grimes and Miko lol, replace Albert, Cameron, Stills, might have to replace Miller. That’s quite a lot. I’d rather push some of those guys out with competition, not create voids that MUST be replaced and that’s what we’re looking at here.

      Some of them we can’t control, like the UFAs and if Wake isn’t the same who I’m concerned about. That’s already voids we need to look at. Like I said in this article, we can’t rely on Fuckface, and Coples will either have to take a substantial cut or he won’t be back. We could end up really thin at DE if it doesn’t go down the right way.

      Then we want to replace LT, depth OT, G, TE, Miller?, LB, CB and S.

      Oh yeah, we also want to draft a developmental QB to push Logan Thomas and maybe even Tannehill, and get rid of Matt Moore.

      Oh okay, good luck with all that. I’m sure it will all just go down just as we envision it. LOL

  76. Mike E. says:

    I want to keep Miller and OV, and if they really like Shelby, him too.

  77. Tim Knight says:

    ### New Dolphins coach Adam Gase told WQAM’s Joe Rose on Thursday that last year “was a hiccup” for Ryan Tannehill. “I feel like we can help with the sacks; we can eliminate some of those hits he’s taken.”

    Gase’s offense — which he said is based in part on what Indianapolis has done — includes some deep shots. But keep in mind that Tannehill threw more deep passes last season (81, completing 27) than Jay Cutler did under Gase in 2015 (24 for 73) or Peyton Manning under Gase in 2014 (31 for 70). In this case, deep passes are balls thrown 20 yards or more in the air.

    Gase spent 2 ½ hours at Don Shula’s home on Wednesday and called it an “unbelievable experience, a day I’ll never forget.”


  78. D says:

    I think Glenn is pretty close to Albert’s level and on the upswing but yeah majority of why I think he’s a better option is he is very dependable.

    He has started every game since they put him in 3 games into his rookie season. Albert has missed multiple games in all but one season. He has a history, a pattern, one that I want to move on from with possibly the most important position on the OL.

    And yes tim any one of them can get rolled up on, but you can’t say that there is no difference in Albert and some of the other players. A lot of players make it through the season OK. They hold up better to the abuse of football. Albert isn’t one of them so there is much higher likelihood he follows his pattern of injury and Glenn follows his. That just logical.

    • Tim Knight says:

      I want to focus on positions that need upgrades, not the ones that don’t. I would expect Albert to be much more ready this offseason without rehab and more strength training and getting into football shape before the season starts which he had to do in-season this year coming back so quickly. James was the man down this year, not Albert.

      Upgrade OT depth and add a quality starting G in FA. That will go along way and should not be too expensive.

      Then draft a C/G to compete with Douglas and round out backup C and/or G. Maybe one becomes a starter over Thomas and Turner or someone else.

      LT Albert
      C Pouncey
      RT James

      That’s the core. The best thing we can hope for is those 3 stay relatively healthy and we build from there.

  79. D says:

    Can’t make tea sweeter taking out the sugar, but I hear you can make a pig sweeter taking him on a white water rafting adventure. 🙂

  80. Tim Knight says:

    This is cool.

    Gase spent 2 ½ hours at Don Shula’s home on Wednesday and called it an “unbelievable experience, a day I’ll never forget.”

  81. Randy says:

    Ah, it does the chunk of coal that passes for my heart good to see you all discussing the players that truly matter. 😀

  82. Tim Knight says:

    Randy, any concerns at DE/Edge types?

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