A closer look at the Miami Dolphins RB’s

I think it’s very fair to say Lamar Miller is under appreciated here. Lamar Miller has been with the Dolphins for 3 years, and in those 3 years, he only has 444 rushing attempts. He has a 4.6 YPC average overall, but last year, Lamar averaged 5.1 per rush, with a season high for him 216 carries and 1099 yards. Miller also had 38 receptions for 275 yards, giving Miller a nice total of 1374 yards from scrimmage, with 8 rushing TD’s, and 1 receiving TD.

Guess what! The last RB in an aqua,orange and white uni to rush for over 1000 yards was Reggie Bush in 2011 with exactly the same amount of carries as Miller, 2 less rushing TD’s. Bush had a 43 receptions for 296 yards and 1 TD, for a total of 1382 yards from scrimmage. Remarkably similar production from these 2 backs, and I think Miller is on the rise, definitely trending upward.

Lamar Miller

Lamar Miller hopes for more catches and broken tackles
By Reginald James, Dolphins Correspondent, Fri, Apr 3rd 3:38am EDT
After spending time in the film room, Lamar Miller came to the conclusion that he didn’t catch enough passes, and that he needed to break more tackles. This offseason he has put on seven pounds of muscle, and now weighs 225 pounds. Miller has been training with the Jugs machine, and has sought to improve his technique by working with fellow Cane, Andre Johnson. He has also been working with his own QB, Ryan Tannehill, and the Miami receivers.

Miller is a quality guy. He’s a 24 year old RB with not a lot of mileage on his legs, along with the fact that he obviously is looking to improve, and is working hard towards that goal.

Behind Miller on the depth chart, at least at the moment, is 2nd year RB Damien Williams. Williams saw limited action, at least until the end of the season. Williams finished with 122 yards on 36 carries, for a 3.4 YPC average. He was more involved as a receiver, catching 21 passes for 187 yards, and 1 TD. I think Williams showed he’s a dependable receiver out of the backfield at the least, and possibly a decent change of pace back.

Damien Williams

LaMichael James is next on the depth chart. James was drafted in 2012 by the SF 49ers #61 in the 2nd RD. James has 4.45 speed, and a lot of wiggle. He was unable to get significant playing time with Frank Gore and Kendall Hunter in 2012 logging in only 27 carries for 125 yards and a 4.6 YPC average. James was primarily used a punt returner, and averaged a decent 10.9 yards per return. He’s obviously a talented back, but hasn’t been able to show in the NFL why he was worthy of being drafted #61 overall in 2012. Hopefully he’ll surprise us this year.

Last on the depth is Mike Gillsilee, our 5th RD draft pick in 2013, 164th overall. Gillslee, like James hasn’t really had a chance to show what he can do on the NFL level, and last year, he was on IR.
So as of now, behind Lamar Miller, we have a fair amount of question marks, although there is definitely talent back there. Williams definitely made things happen in the passing game, and I expect more from him this year. I also expect LaMichael James to be given ample opportunity to make the team. Gillislee has his work cut out for him, because I’m sure if we don’t draft a RB, which even if we do, it will likely be in the later RD’s, we will bring in some undrafted free agents he will have to pass, and Damien Williams, (2014 UDFA) already has passed Gillislee on the depth chart. He will have to have a strong camp and preseason to make the roster.

Mike GillisleeLaMichael_James_2014
Is there a chance we draft a RB earlier than the later RD’s, or maybe just pick up some UDFA’s? Sure there is. Is there a chance we make a big splash and land Todd Gurley, arguably the most talented RB in this draft (when healthy)? Sure, but I’m not expecting that to happen, not with holes on the OL, CB, LB, WR and S. Not that Gurley wouldn’t change the entire complexion of our offense, he would, but IMO, you still need the horses up front to get it done right. We still have protection issues, and when Albert was injured, our run game regressed significantly as well. We can’t afford that, and I also think it would be foolish to expect Branden Albert to be completely recovered, healthy, and ready to start game 1, if even the first 4 games, after tearing both his ACL and MCL in his right knee. That’s why I think it’s essential that we address the O-line with a player that can both be starter at OT/OG. That’s a lot to ask, and despite what some people think, those guys aren’t usually found past the 1st and 2nd RD. I know you’ve heard it 100X if not more, but the Dallas Cowboys fixed their O-line by drafting Zack Martin last year at #14, and he completely solidified that O-line. DeMarco Murray was never better than last year. On many runs he wasn’t touched until he was 5 yards downfield.

We need to run the ball well, and we need to protect Tanny a lot better than we did last year. Obviously the answer doesn’t lie in FA, although there will be FA after the draft, and if a couple of guys that are available now, like OG’s Stefen Wisniewski, Justin Blalock, and C Chris Myers, and OT’s Anthony Collins, these players will probably have their phones ringing after the draft is over, and teams that were unable to fill spots on the O-line adequately via the draft will be calling. Honestly, I hope we’re not one of those teams, but in Hickenbaum We Trust!

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382 Responses to A closer look at the Miami Dolphins RB’s

  1. Try Pod says:

    Nice writes Mike? I was a fan of Miller’s since his college days, and I agree he seems to get dissed by Dolphins fans for some reason. I don’t think we are in the market for a rb through the draft, unless one is sitting there with value (bpa).
    Got started on our trip around 3:45 EST. 630-odd miles to Pensacola. Wife asked to take the first seat, which puts me in the navigator spot till the other side of Nashville, about 200 miles/3 hours. Riveting stuff, I know 🙂

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Once you get in the driver’s seat
      You should go for NASCAR speed

    • jetsssuck says:

      I always wanted to attend a cubs game. I’ve been to the area 6-7 times but always in the winter. I don’t have any idea where the players/fans park their cars. I ve been to several places around that ball park and I’m amazed about the ballpark layout.

  2. Rockphin says:

    Ahem, As I recall I was arguing that Miller would be just as good or better than Bush. There was wailing and gnashing of teeth From a certain someone expecially…

  3. jetsssuck says:

    I voted for Tre the CB but if Gregory is there I would have voted for him. I believe Suh will straighten him out and he will learn a lesson about how much money he lost. I think he will play hard and stay clean for his second contract.

  4. olddolphan says:

    WONDERFUL ANALYSIS, MIKE E.!!! – – – Totally agree with your thoughts on O-Line. Many on this board won’t want to hear this but, IMHO, if Hickey trades up 5-6 spots, it will be to obtain the services of Scherff who, I’d guess, is more highly valued by Miami than Trae Waynes. That said, I believe if we stay at 14, Waynes is the pick.
    Wife and I down with bad cough and a serious bug. Wonder if it’s similar to the bug Ken and his wife are experiencing. NASTY stuff!!

  5. Brian in NY says:

    I’ve been touting Miller for years, for the reasons mentioned above. He’s been under utlized in our offense the past 3 years overall. That said, My selection for us at #14 is:
    Todd Gurley, RB, Georgia

  6. Brian in NY says:

    Have a great trip Try Pod!

  7. The Flying Pig says:

    Great piece Mike E puting Lamar Miller’s numbers into perspective

    Miller is the Oinks

  8. The Flying Pig says:

    The Dolphins are on the clock

    The Dolphins are on the CLOCK!!!

  9. The Flying Pig says:

    Waynes is int he lead with 7 votes
    but Breshad Perriman is not too far behind

    Suprising both Kendricks and Collins have 3 votes each

    I am the sole vote for Jaelen Strong

  10. Tim Knight says:

    Good stuff, Mike E. I think Miller has the potential to have a really good season if we feed him the ball more. Not saying 300 carries, but more than 216, maybe 250-275. Also maybe he can build on his 38 catches and get closer to 50.

  11. The Flying Pig says:

  12. The Flying Pig says:

    Does anyone know the twitter accounts for Strongs family


  13. New Age says:

    Mike E,
    Good write and i hope Miller does get more carries next year. He has all the talent needed to excell.

    You may be right about us needing an early OL pick but I think that says a lot about how poorly our OL coach does his job(any of them past and present). We have maybe the highest drafted group of guys in the NFL. THREE first rounders and two 3rds is a lot of invested picks not including the wasted 2nd.. Every other team seems to get later round guys to contribute a much greater amount of the time. If it needs to be done, then lets do it but still very disappointing.

    • Tim Knight says:

      I think it’s unfair to blame John Benton who is an excellent OL coach with a great track record. Remember, Pouncey was coming off of hip surgery and then played RG when he was ready week 5 or 6 or whatever it was. Then Albert went down for the year with a knee injury and James was a rookie who played both RT and then LT. So just throwing out three 1st round picks doesn’t tell the whole story.

      Also being that we haven’t signed any FA guards might be a sign the coaching staff is confident in Thomas and Turner (who was also hurt most of last season), getting Albert back, Pouncey back at center and James with a year under his belt.

      • New Age says:

        If we had a bad OL just last year…then your point would be a lot stronger. We haven’t had a solid OL in a long time.

  14. BoulderPhinfan says:

    Nice job mike. I think used properly miller could have production like mccoy had in this type of offense.

    BTW I voted for trae. Although I feel like if the draft ends up like our we’ll do our best to trade back.

  15. The Flying Pig says:


    I have to get some work done

    The Dolphin poll will stay up into the afternoon
    or until you guys start quealing to take it down

  16. Tim Knight says:

    I think because the top 3 WRs are gone we’re seeing reaches for other WRs.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      There are arguably 6 first round WRs

      4 in the top 20
      I guess it depends on what source you use

      But CBS has Strong not too far behind Parker
      and DGB and Perriman are not too find behind them
      They have Kendricks ranked below all those WRs

      • Tim Knight says:

        Maybe Strong, but DGB and Perriman are not #14 picks. It’s likely we’ll trade down if we have a partner. Maybe a team looking for a pass rusher or OT.

  17. Tim Knight says:

    New Age, we blew our OL up last offseason so I’m only concerned about now, not the past. John Benton had to use every OL at some point last year with all the injuries. We knew it wasn’t going to be a seamless transition the first year. Hopefully we’re close to finding our core group.

  18. jahndoh says:

    I really don’t like the options left on the board at 14 in this draft. I tend to agree with Boulder that we’d likely trade back (if at all possible) should this scenario play out. I also think we’d target Kendricks in a trade back (if at all possible) even though if not I think they might just take him in this slot. Thus, my vote for Kendricks.

  19. jahndoh says:

    Mike E. Nice writeup, but I’m curious why you have Gillislee behind a guy who was unemployed just a few weeks ago and we signed for nearly the league minimum. Gillislee’s been injured, but James has been unemployed.

    I mentioned before the draft that year that James was just too small to make it as an NFL back, and I think that’s playing out. He was on our practice squad much of the season last year and not poached, so clearly he was drafted way too early by SF (all IMHO).

    • Tim Knight says:

      James is a specialty back and return man at best, and if he can’t win 3rd down duties because of Williams he won’t make the team. Gillislee has the ability to be a legit RB, now he has to prove how good.

  20. The Flying Pig says:

    I think we will trade back too if it comes to this

    But we need a trade partner
    and it didn;t happen last year when we took James

    Lets say it went down like this
    and we drafted Waynes
    We drafted a guy with pro bowl talent…so its nothing to complain about

    I just think most of us wanted those guys between picks 9-12 at 14
    including me
    but I would probably rather have a trade down and end up with those guys left ont he board

  21. Tim Knight says:

    Jahn, I’m talking about breaking into Hickey’s office and taking a peek. LOL

  22. jahndoh says:

    Tim/New Age. While I was also underwhelmed by the OL performance last year, I simply can not fly in the face of Benton’s reputation. I don’t think coaches with that much success forget what they know. I just think the injuries caused a lot of shifting around and patchwork that hopefully we can avoid this season. It’s good to know that in a pinch James can play LT and Pouncey can play guard, but when you’ve got them both doing that as a result of injury, you’re really behind the eightball.

    Benton gets a reprieve from me. I think the OL showed signs of improvement last year despite the clusterf#@k of injuries…so I’m hoping for big things this year.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Agreed, at times the ZBS system in the running game was executing well and Miller was exploding through holes. We also showed signs of good pass protection. But we couldn’t keep the same 5 on the field for any length of time and our pass pro was bad down the stretch.

  23. dcoralsprings says:

    well I’m off to Texas for the week
    thinking along the lines of Ozzy’s honor to the Alamo
    I might slide through Arlington and visit
    Jerry world

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      Yes, go to Jerry world and spread some of that Dolphin mojo there, we go there next season. Put a Dolphin sticker on the back of a pole out of site or something like that.

  24. The Flying Pig says:

    Would look good in a Dolphins uniform

  25. professor lou says:

    Why not DeVante Parker in your draft poll?

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I really expected him to be there

      but nope
      Some of the fans here had to vote Parker to the Browns


  26. professor lou says:

    sorry, see now you have Cleveland taking him at 12.

  27. jahndoh says:

    ‘Sup Pro Lou. Whatcha think of my favorite ILB in the draft: Kendricks?

  28. wyoming85 says:

    Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout · 3m3 minutes ago
    Nelson Agholor doesn’t fit as a future No. 1 receiver, but dammit he can be a really good 2/3. Immediate slot and punt return impact

  29. Al in MIA says:

    Good morning.
    If Miami stays with the pick, it will be CB (take your pick which one) which would be IMO best option of BPA to major team need.
    Davis/Taylor have not proven to be dependable and Grimes is an injury away from making our secondary horrible.

    • Al in MIA says:

      That or an OL position.

    • Tim Knight says:

      You’re probably right. Not everyone thinks Waynes is the best corner either.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Are you suggesting Marcus Peters?

      • Tim Knight says:

        Kevin Johnson as well. I’ve read different opinions on all three of them. P.J. Williams is also in the discussion but he just got a DUI and that could hurt his draft stock.

    • Al in MIA says:

      The team needs LB no doubt but Kendricks is pretty small for ILB weight wise and may be more useful to teams on the outside. The LB last year looked bad at times last year not just because of the unit itself but also because the DL failed badly at times to stuff their gaps, allowing big time holes and blockers to get easily into the 2nd level to wipe out LB.

  30. Al in MIA says:

    Waynes might be the best man cover corner IMO but with the system the Fins run, I like what I see in Peters (character issues aside) in what he does off in zone (he reads the QB eyes well). He’s got that Vontae Davis type fight in him but is better than Davis off his cover man in zone.
    Kevin Johnson’s name has been thrown around and he’s another guy with good physical numbers but when I see his tape, I see him biting on alot of 1st moves of the WR or QB pump fake which really frightens me. Johnson is so good physically that he has been able to recover off those mistakes to close in fast on his plays. I don’t think he fairs well in the instincts department which is not something I like to see as a flaw in a top player.
    UCONN’s Byron Jones is flying up the boards as well but looking at him on tape, he just looks very solid. He does his job and is always around but he doesn’t show better instincts to me than Waynes/Peters. Those two (Peters/Waynes) have by far better instincts (at least on film) than any of the guys i’ve seen in the top 10 at CB.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Yeah, what I’ve read about Waynes is he’s more of a press guy, not overly physical but has good skills. May not be as effective playing off man and in zone.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      If they drafted waynes, the right thing for Coyle to do would be to adjust the system and get the most out of him

      He does nto appear to be a good fit in our system
      but maybe Coyle can make adjustments based on talent ….(Piggy shrugs)

  31. The Flying Pig says:

    I haven;t looked at Kevin Johnson much Tim

    He is on my hit list of guys to look at

    I like Peters skill a lot
    But those those offfield rumors are partiulalry bad

    I think anyone other than Waynes can be acquired after a trade down too

    • Tim Knight says:

      What were Peters’ off-field rumors? I heard he had tantrums with coaches but not aware of off the field stuff.

    • jahndoh says:

      I did see one mock where Kendricks went in the very next slot. I think as fans we’re more casual about trade downs and assuming players will be there, but I know GMs are much more conservative. They generally will only trade down 3 spots if there are 3 players they really like on the board.

  32. Al in MIA says:

    By the way, I was looking at WR tape over the weekend and couldn’t believe how similar Central Michigan’s Titus Davis looked to Jarvis Landry in terms of receiving style (hands aside).

  33. The Flying Pig says:

    Kendricks is very versatile and does eveything well
    He would be an excellent addition

    but I have to admit – I enjoy watching Denzel Perryman hit guys more
    (Piggy growls)

    • jahndoh says:

      Yeah, those trying to change his position are swimming upstream. He’s the best ILB in the draft. I really don’t think you change his position, and if he IS a position change guy you normally wouldn’t take him until the 3rd round. He’ll be gone by the end of the 1st IMHO. GB will sit tight and run to the podium.

  34. jahndoh says:

    “Davis/Taylor have not proven to be dependable and Grimes is an injury away from making our secondary horrible.”

    You went from saying they’re unproven (which is true, but doesn’t mean they can’t play) to saying we’ll be “horrible” at the position if our rarely injured best CB gets injured.

    My response to that is, oversell. I don’t think Waynes is all that special either, and he’s also unproven. I could see us going Waynes there, but IMHO the CB position isn’t nearly as dire as you make it out to be.

    • Al in MIA says:

      It probably won’t be as dire as I made it sound but IMO the LB unit right now is in better shape in terms of my perspective.

      • jahndoh says:

        I guess that’s fair, but to me this selection is about immediate impact rather than depth. I think Kendricks will be a pro-bowler right away playing behind Suh, whereas I don’t think Waynes will be a probowler right away, if at all.

        I get what you’re saying though.

    • Tim Knight says:

      McCain is also considered a good slot corner. I think Taylor and Davis have both shown they can play, but their body of work is limited due to injuries. Davis coming off of knee surgery is more worrisome than Taylor coming off of a shoulder injury (I don’t think it required surgery) so we’ll see where they’re at soon enough.

  35. Tim Knight says:

    Piggy, not sure you change your entire defense for a CB who is kind of limited to a certain style of play. You usually play a press style or not. We do mix it up a bit with press, off-man and zone, but I wouldn’t want a corner who can only play one way.

    • stangerx says:

      If you take him seems you at least consider it or maybe you take him because you are considering it.

      Seems if you have the beast of the D-line you think you have, man to man might be a better way to go if the pressures will come quick. Pretty sure Grimes will thrive in either scheme.

      • Tim Knight says:

        I don’t think we’ll do that but we’ll see. We might be making more out of it than we should be too. Grimes has said regardless of scheme you have to cover your man so he doesn’t believe it’s that complex. Maybe scouts make more out of it then it should be and maybe because there isn’t a lot of tape on a guy playing a certain way, they get pigeon holed.

  36. stangerx says:

    Great job MIke E! You make a real good case for Miller not getting the love he deserves. “5.1 per rush” by itself should say why don’t we use him more.

  37. Al in MIA says:

    CB are hard to find and Waynes to me shows better man cover skills than last year’s top 3 -> Dennard, Gilbert, & Fuller.

  38. Al in MIA says:

    The reality is, we talk about what the Fins needs are and what’s out there in RD 1…
    LB, WR, CB options will be there for Miami in the first 2 rounds.

  39. Al in MIA says:

    Doesn’t Coyle prefer to use a scheme where 1 corner presses and the other zones off?

    • jahndoh says:

      only on the RARE occasions he calls for press at all. And that guy would be Grimes whether Waynes was here or not IMHO. Not too long ago you seemed to have gotten your head around the idea that we might select Kendricks. But you’ve talked yourself out of it it seems?

    • Tim Knight says:

      I’ve seen that done a lot but I’m not sure he wants one guy who just plays one way and the other guy the other way. I would think he wants all his corners to be able to play different coverages and so would I if I was a coach. We also play more off-man than zone, that’s why you see Grimes covering his man across the field rather than just sit in his outside zone. I think we confuse not playing press with zone too often. The quarters defense looks like zone but a lot of of the time there is still a lot of man being played.

  40. Great job Mike — I love Lamar especially cause he’s a Hurricane as well and I got to meet him a few times. He is very underrated and humble. I think he needs more touches because he is a real playmaker.

    • jahndoh says:

      I really like him too, but I’ll say, there’s a huge upside to not having him carry the ball too many times. Longevity and injury prevention amongst them. RBs are too easily burned to the ground in this league, and while we all wanted to see more from him right out the gate, his performance last year convinced me it was wise to not do that too him too early in his career.

      The days of the bell-cow RB are gone. There’s really only 3-4 of them left in the entire league, and that includes names I’m skeptical of going into next season like Demarco Murray (just because of the number of carries he had last season and the historical implications of that).

  41. Al in MIA says:

    Have you seen film of Central Michigan’s WR Titus Davis?

    • jahndoh says:

      Yes, I see what you’re saying in the Landry comparison (I think it was you who said that), but I tend to think he’s more of a Hartline type of guy (outside of the hands, which can be kind of maddening, this crowd will crucify him..LOL!). It’s hard to project him coming from the MAC though. Those defenders were a long way off of NFL caliber.

  42. Al in MIA says:

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Kendricks and would love the pick but I’m taking a look at CB depth in the draft and LB depth and see alot of value lower in the draft for LB.

  43. Tim Knight says:

    Jahn, good points on Miller’s workload. I do think we could get his rushes up from 216/13.5 PG but I don’t think we’ll ever give it to him 300/18.75 PG. Maybe somewhere in between. I would like to see him used more as a receiver because he’s lethal out in space.

    • jahndoh says:

      Yeah, it’s odd he hasn’t been used much for that. I guess part of that is that he’s the 1st and 2nd down back and they tend to either run it or leave the RB in to block on those downs.

      • Tim Knight says:

        I would utilize him out of the backfield on early downs a few more times. He is so explosive that out in space he’ll pick up yards in a flash.

  44. Mike E. says:

    Thanks guys and girls! 🙂

    Jahn – I just went by Ourlads depth chart, which at this point, is the only one out there. It really doesn’t mean an awful lot at this juncture, because neither Gillislee or James has done much yet, but James was a 2nd RD pick, so his pedigree was a bit higher to start.

    • jahndoh says:

      I gotcha. Their depth charts ARE actually pretty accurate I’ve found. But when you’re talking about the 3rd and 4th RBs there’s probably a margin for error that’s inherent.

    • jahndoh says:

      One thing though, I think it’s clear at this point that SF made a mistake drafting him that early. No other team even nibbled at him as a FA.

      Here’s an insider tip for me, if there’s a guy who was a pac-12 star, particularly if he’s from UCLA, Cal, or Oregon, that I’m not talking up…well, warning sign…lets just call it that. 🙂

  45. Mike E. says:

    Also, I’m not advocating burning Miller out with 30 carries a game, it just frustrated the hell out of me times when he was running well, and then we basically shut down the run game, with Miller finishing with 10-15 carries. That needs to stop. If we’re moving the ball on the ground well, keep at it, and I think Miller should get about 15-20 carries a game if not more when he’s effective. That’s not an outrageous amount by any means

    • jahndoh says:

      20 carries a game is 320 for the year. More IS outrageous IMHO for a guy like Miller. I don’t know what level you think leads to burn out, but for me 300 carries is it.

    • Bingo…as soon as we would get behind in games we abandoned the running game and that was a mistake.

    • Tim Knight says:

      That drove all of us crazy, has for years. There were games where we would rush really well in the 1st half, maybe 14 or 15 for 70-75 yards and then run it 3 times in the 2nd half. WTF?!!!

  46. Tim Knight says:

    If I knew Kendricks could be a special MLB at this time I would like to see us pick him. Here’s the key, it doesn’t matter what the mocksters think, what matters is do our scouts and GM feel he’s a 3 down MLB who has pro bowl potential. If they believe that, take him.

    • jahndoh says:

      very true. But until we know, we’ll just have to pontificate…lol…

    • Mike E. says:

      Absolutely, and I’d say the same for every player in the poll. Who cares if we think Ereck Flowers should go late 1st or early 2nd RD in the draft, they showed if they have conviction about a player (Ja’Wuan James), they’re gonna pull the trigger.

  47. Mike E. says:


    It’s funny that the 49ers took our 2nd RD pick, and we took theirs. lol

    • jahndoh says:

      Lol…yep. Looks like we both made a mistake on that one. Martin just signed with the Panthers this offseason.

  48. jahndoh says:

    “Agreed…but I would like to see him get more red zone chances. :)”

    I can get behind that idea. Same with Tims idea of getting him the ball in the open field a bit more on 1st and 2nd downs. He does seem to get chunk yardage when we actually DO that.

  49. Mike E. says:


    I don’t mean more than 20 carries every game, there will be games when he may only get 10-15 if we’re behind. I’m saying if there’s a game when he’s running well, feed him the ball 25 times if it’s working, don’t put a limit on him. He’s 5’10” 225, he’s not 5’10” 190. He’s a big boy, he can handle it.

  50. Lamar Miller’s stats in 2011 his last year at UM:
    12 games, 227 carries, 1,272 yards and 5.6 avg.

    With the Fins in 2014:
    16 games, 216 carries, 1,099 yards and 5.1 avg.

    He averaged almost 19 carries per game in college (as a sophomore), I do not think 20 a game is outrageous and very doable.

  51. Mike E. says:

    Gigi, Tim – Exactly! That’s gotta stop. Gotta keep the balance in the offense. Obviously these guys know better than all of us, but it was baffling nonetheless to watch it unfold.

    • stangerx says:

      He’s on his last contract year. Now it’s cold, but……..run him as much as you want.

      • Mike E. says:

        I guess we’ll wait and see how he fares before we offer him an extension. He’s still young, only 24.

      • stangerx says:

        Far as I’m concerned a guy on his last year contract is a FA in waiting. Maybe we re-sign him, but we’ll be paying him close to full price anyhow.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Unless we’re down by 3 or 4 possessions and that is rare, I never see a reason to only run it 3 times in a half.

      • jahndoh says:

        Again, I’m being arcane, but there are reasons however rare. Games where you’re trailing by alot (as you mentioned), but also games where you get stuffed on first down for a loss, or take a sack or get behind the yardsticks in general. Detroit game comes to mind. Sometimes running the ball is a fools errand. No coach would game plan to only run 3 times in a half, but on rare occasions situations dictate that too you.

        I know we all want to be the kind of team who can impose it’s will, but if you can’t actually execute doing it, and you keep banging your head against the wall, than you’re just being pig-headed (no offense Piggy!).

  52. stangerx says:

    Abramson puts out his rankings of the top receivers…….curiously he has seven too.


  53. Tim Knight says:

    It is true that Miller seems to get this scat-back tag and that’s nonsense. He’s 5-10 225 which is by no means a small RB. He’s got big powerful legs and stocky overall build.

    • stangerx says:

      He’s still not a power runner though, and one who works better in space than on short yardage. But hey…….works well with our zone blocking scheme.

  54. jahndoh says:

    I think I’m getting a bit arcane with this, but 16 games in the pros vs. 12 in the college is a huge difference when it comes to wear and tear.

    I get you guys’ point, but it’s not as simple as that when you’re comparing college to NFL seasons.

    • New Age says:

      I agree but he should be able to handle 18-20 touches a game by now. I think he is very under-used and hope this changes. Very good player.

      • jahndoh says:

        I don’t know that you ever develop the “skillset” of taking more punishment. Its purely about repetition of collisions involving massive forces. Either you can handle it (ala Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, Frank Gore (of years past?)) or you can’t (ala most other NFL running backs.)

      • New Age says:

        He handled 19 in both of the last games so I think he can handle it. The guy is good and the extra muscle should help.

  55. New Age says:

    Good points about last year and I do think he did well with what happened. At the same time, any OL coach should find success with a line full of 1st rounders. So, we shouldn’t really need another one. Just my thoughts.

  56. Tim Knight says:

    I agree with Stanger that Miller who is in his last year of his rookie deal and only 24 years old with not too much wear and tear, this is the year to get a good workload out of him. Again that doesn’t mean run him into the ground, but utilize his ability to its fullest.


    • jahndoh says:

      I can buy into that. It’s a contract year too, so he should play well. This may be the first year where I think he actually IS a fantasy football sleeper.

  57. son of a son of a shula says:

    I’m glad to see that Miller has put an emphasis on improving his receiving skills this off season. One of the reasons his catches are low is that he has had some very ugly drops the last couple of years, so besides not making those catches they probably stayed away from him at times as well.

    • Tim Knight says:

      True, I thought he was better last year and that’s why he had 38 catches after 26 the year before and 6 his rookie season. I thought he started to look more comfortable last year. Hopefully he takes it to another level.

      • jahndoh says:

        Wow, to be honest, with all the mouths to feed in this offense, I’m not sure how we’re going to run it more and still have Miller get more than 40 catches. Something’s gotta give. Are virtually all the recievers and Tannehill going to backslide this year when it comes to production.

    • stangerx says:

      Completely agree Son. Like Tim said he did get better, but it still doesn’t come natural to him. Part of why I’d love to see us draft a real pass catching RB to compliment him.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Williams looks really natural as a receiver. He didn’t play a lot and he still caught 21 passes.

  58. stangerx says:

    On Saturday I was doing just like the chick in the vid. The stingrays on this sandbar are like puppy dogs cause they know people equals food. They were eating squid out of my hand and literally trying to jump into my arms.

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      That’s pretty cool. I’ve fed them at Sea World, they kinda suck the food out of your hand.

      • stangerx says:

        Yeah — they are like a vacuum cleaner. Least the local legend is that the sandbar is where outreach fisherman would stop to clean their catches on the way back and the stingrays (who normally hunt at night) said “hey this is a lot easier.” So they decided to stay awake during the day……and once the tourists boats started coming they just lived fat, happy and friendly.

    • jahndoh says:

      Ha! I did that when I was there for the Disney Cruise over Christmas. We were in Grand Cayman..is that where this is/where you are?

    • Mike E. says:

      Awesome! They had a stingray pool at Atlantis, but I didn’t do it. As opposed to the one you just showed, it was far from free, like everything else there. lol

      • stangerx says:

        LOL — nothing is free at Atlantis, but it was an experience…..well worth the price (which was less than I was expecting…..like $45 bucks per person for that and two snorkeling stops on a three-hour tour…..didn’t meet Ginger though……but Mary Ann was on board).

      • Mike E. says:


  59. Tim Knight says:

    Jahn, good points on how a game plays out, but I feel we’ve had too many games like that where we went away from the run when it was working. Even when it wasn’t, running 14 times for 2 yards is unacceptable like we did against TB in 2013.

    Then again running out of shotgun 90% of the time is a different beast in itself.

  60. son of a son of a shula says:

    Jahn, I understand what you mean about touches and keeping all involved but if we can become a bit more efficient on offense they will come. Avoid the times where we go three and out four or five times in a row. Control the clock at the end of games when we have the lead and simply become a more high powered O that scores even more than last year even though last year we jumped to close to where we need to be. But to start December with 16, 13, 13 has to stop.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Yeah that was a really sour way to play at the most important time of the year. Add that to the defense falling apart and it really sucked.

  61. The Flying Pig says:

    I am very proud to announce that Jaelen Strong now has 2 votes

    Who ever voted fro Strong in addition to me stands with Squiggly tail

    Stand tall Pork Chop – Stand tall!!

  62. Tim Knight says:

    We fans are very split on our pick. Pretty much a sign that the no-brainer isn’t there for us and probably won’t be in the real draft.

    I’m liking the idea of either trading up to make a splash because you feel this guy will help us to get to where we want to go sooner than later, or trade back and maximize value and get a couple more top rated prospects.

  63. The Flying Pig says:

    The “Other” vite is a vote for DeVante Parker
    Appearently the voter wants the Dolphins to use the 14th pick to mug the Browns who already selected Parker two slots before we picked

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      Let’s get in a bidding war with Cleveland after we both pick him.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        We can pose as a USFL team
        then offer him Herscel Walker money!!!

      • Tim Knight says:

        Just tell Ray Farmer he texted the wrong Parker and actually drafted Parker Stevenson the 70s heart throb. LOL

    • manitobafinfan says:

      If Parker were still on the board here, he would have been my pick, but as i was partially responsible for sending him to the Browns, i went with Perriman..

  64. Al in MIA says:

    In reality it doesn’t matter what the scouts think either, it’s up to the GM who makes the final call.
    Case in point, Russell Wilson. Schneider went against his entire scouting department who was not in agreement with Wilson that early in the draft. Hell, Pete admitted after that Schneider wanted him earlier than RD 2 but Carroll felt that was too early and wasn’t comfortable there but that by RD 3 he said “ok”.

    • Tim Knight says:

      True, I was just saying if the scouts are really sold on him, say the director of college scouting, and so is Hickey, having other votes of confidence might help him make the pick.

  65. son of a son of a shula says:

    I count 25 locks on our 53, which includes Fields, Denney and a kicker.
    Another 18 who more than likely make it, and 4 more right on the edge.
    So that’s 47, meaning everyone else is fighting for basically 6-10 spots.

  66. son of a son of a shula says:

    25 locks:

    C. Jordan
    Moore (if not at least one back-up QB)
    McCain, Brice

  67. son of a son of a shula says:

    18 more than likelies:

    Williams, D
    Jones, D
    Thomas, M
    Johnson, A
    McCain, C

    • Tim Knight says:

      Below is my edited version.
      Williams, D
      Thomas, M
      Johnson, A
      McCain, C

  68. son of a son of a shula says:

    On the fence but stand a good chance:

    Johnson, K
    Gary, Shamiel
    Coleman, D

  69. wyoming85 says:

    Add the 6 Draft picks to the 25 and/or 18

  70. Al in MIA says:

    I like the trade down option as much as anybody but really nobody offers anything aggressively unless there is a premium player on the board.
    Fins best offer will probably come if Randy Gregory is there.
    If Sherff slides, they will get offers there as well.
    Gurley should be there but may go earlier (there will be demand there for him but not as strong as for others cause its a deep RB market and many teams are not locked in to a 1 back system anymore).

  71. The Flying Pig says:

    Then it has been decided

    We shall trade down or trade up
    and henceforth bacon will not be consumed by anyone…um…I think some one mentioned that…

  72. The Flying Pig says:

    With 28 votes
    I’m ready to call the Dolphins Poll

    Trae Waynes to the Dolphins with over 28% of the vote

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      Bye Davis or Taylor

      We won’t keep 6.

      Its like the Stills deal, just a trade off of what we had already no real gain.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Aikens can be listed as a S

        I think 6 is what we keep normally isn;t it
        6 CBs and 4 Safeties

        We actually kept a ton last year as I recall…

      • son of a son of a shula says:

        We have Seamster and Rose and Heath for the 6th guy or an undrafted from this year. I think an early CB this year means the end of Davis or Taylor.

  73. Mike E. says:

    I think Parker could be a player worthy of a trade up for some teams, along with La’el Collins, Gregory, Waynes, or Landon Collins. On the other hand, we have to like the trade back terms, and feel comfortable doing it if there is a player we’re looking to get that hasn’t yet been selected that is in danger of being selected before we pick.

  74. Mike E. says:


    It’s only a gain if Waynes becomes a solid starter, because we didn’t really have that once Finnegan went down.

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      Taylor started playing pretty well before the shoulder thing.

      • Mike E. says:

        True, but the damn guy can’t stay on the field. That’s a killer! It would be nice to have a guy who can play every game.

  75. The Flying Pig says:

    The 49ers are now on the clock

  76. The Flying Pig says:

    After losing Gore this offseason I am voting Gurley to the 49ers

  77. The Flying Pig says:

    I made Mike E say Hyde Bush

  78. son of a son of a shula says:

    The Flying Pig says:
    April 6, 2015 at 1:41 pm (Edit)
    No OGs are on the board right

    LOL, you guys seem to be able to pull them out of your ass for us sheeeeeeesh

  79. Tim Knight says:

    Son, I think Aikens is a safety now. They started that transition last year. We are likely to keep 9-10 DBs, 5 CBs, 4 S or 6 CB and 4 S. If anyone goes it will be Seamster or Rose who were both cut last year and re-signed.

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      The team site has him listed as a Corner, I don’t know what else to go by.
      We’re loaded at Safety anyway with Jones2, Delmas, Thomas, Kovacs and Gary.

      • jahndoh says:

        If your overall thesis is that we’re deep enough in the secondary that drafting Waynes doesn’t improve our team as much as we’d like to improve with the 14th selection, I agree, 100%

      • son of a son of a shula says:

        Yes I suppose that is what I’m saying.

      • Tim Knight says:

        The position listings are not always correct, they listed Don Jones as a CB his first few years. I also don’t think D. Jones or Kovacs are ahead of Aikens and Gary is likely a long shot. This is just my opinion but don’t be surprised if it’s right. LOL

  80. jahndoh says:

    If Kendricks goes to the niners I’ll submit that as evidence we should have taken him. You can’t say a player is only a candidate in a trade down than turn around and mock him in the very next slot. LOL…silly bloggers!

    Look at the list Son puts up there. I’m not convinced Waynes improves this team more than incrementally. If you draft Kendricks you improve instantly at MLB and SLB (Misi rotates back to where he’s played best). That is complimented by our DL play, and our secondary was never really a “problem” IMHO last year so going Waynes over Kendricks is fixing what ain’t broke and missing a golden opportunity to get better at 2 starting positions on the defense.

    JMHO, but I find it funny after the conversations we just had that now Kendricks is the front runner for the very next slot. So what I’m getting from our group is: Kendricks is good enough for the Niners at 15 but not good enough for the Dolphins at 14. Meh…I’m biased. I know it.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Our mock draft is not prophetic, just a fun exercise that might show us how it could go down. So we don’t really get any answers at this time anyway. 🙂

      • jahndoh says:

        None of them are Tim, but they show what, collectively, the group thinks, and the irony is undeniable. He’s not good enough for 14, but for 15, Sure! LOL…come on. Laugh at it with me. It’s funny! 🙂

      • son of a son of a shula says:

        I’m laughing at the whole thing Jahn.
        We as Mega Dolphin fans do a draft and get the shittiest pick so far, lol

  81. son of a son of a shula says:

    Go and get Cooper and make it a bitch to cover us. (then let them have all the o linemen they want after that)

  82. son of a son of a shula says:

    D. Jones or Kovacs are good ST players so anyone else who will be deep on the roster has to get by them and they have a lot of experience on our ST’s already. Both were resigned recently as well so there is likely some expectations for them.

  83. Tim Knight says:

    Jahn, I didn’t pick Kendricks to the 49ers. They also lost Justin Smith who retired.

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      I don’t think Smith has made it official yet if he did I missed it

      • Tim Knight says:

        Oh I thought he did. Either way he’d be entering his 15th season at age 36 and has started to break down. There’s a good player who could replace him on the board. The HC is also a DL coach so he’ll be pounding the table. LOL

  84. stangerx says:

    Interesting thought — next year we could see Richie lining up against Suh.

    Guess we’ll be able to figure out who the real Bully is.

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      Richie is out off his league with Suh. (ever hear rip off his head and shit down his neck, yeah)
      Thing is Suh is usually over the RG and Richie is LG.

      • stangerx says:

        Good points — but then Richie doesn’t even know even if he is starting yet. Would be interesting though……but then with Suh it wouldn’t be mano-a-mano anyhow. Part of what we paid for.

  85. Mike E. says:

    The Niners lost 2 of their LB’s in Patrick Willis and Chris Borland. They play a 3-4, so they need 2 starting LB’s. We play 4-3, and we have 2 starters returning in Misi and Jenkins. Isn’t it a greater need for the Niners? I don’t know else to explain it.

  86. son of a son of a shula says:

    Important fact: Yesterday was the day that more black jelly beans get thrown away than any other day of the year.

  87. Mike E. says:


  88. The Flying Pig says:

    It’s a little weird that as Dolfans we did a mock and picked all the players we wanted to other teams

    I feel like that is the mindset if a lot if fans – “we can’t win”

    But fwiw – I think Waynes is a Byers football player than Kendricks

    Honestly Kendricks is only an option because I drifted from doing the next 10 on cbs
    Kendricks is something like 35 on cbs list
    Shaq Thompson is about the same
    They are literally the lowest ranked guys, other than the QBs, that are options

    It’s true though
    If it was a teach to take Kendricks at 14
    It’s gotta be a teach at 15 too
    The factor here with the 49ers is all the offseason loss at LB I guess…

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      The whole thing is proof, to me anyway, that no one listens to a damn thing I say. I’ll just leave it at that, lol.

    • Tim Knight says:

      I picked based on value and need, not with a we can can’t win mentality. I didn’t pick Kendricks to the 49ers because based on what I’ve seen, the earliest I’ve seen him ranked is in the 20s and I’ve seen him to the Packers at #30 a few times. Based on that, he’s a reach at #15. That doesn’t mean he won’t be a player worthy of that pick in hindsight.

  89. Tim Knight says:

    I remember once eating a piece of Black Jack gum when I was a kid and was like yuk, what’s the point in this when I can chew Juicy Fruit. LOL

  90. The Flying Pig says:

  91. The Flying Pig says:

    Now I want jelly beans

  92. son of a son of a shula says:

    Gotta run for a bit

    • Tim Knight says:

      Go get ’em Son! LMAO!!!

      • jahndoh says:

        LMAO..that is freaking awesome. I don’t know how he thought he was going to be able to do that fully clothed, but the fact his pants fell down in protest cracks me up!

  93. jahndoh says:

    “Tim Knight says:
    April 6, 2015 at 2:14 pm
    Jahn, I didn’t pick Kendricks to the 49ers. They also lost Justin Smith who retired.”

    I was just amused by the groupthink Tim. I never commented on your personal selection. I’m a contributor to the groupthink as well so it’s not condescension, it’s just me having some fun is all.

    Who knows, maybe some other player will make a comeback and all this will be rendered moot as Kendricks stays on the board.

    I get your rational for opting for a pass rusher. But I get the groups rational for Kendricks more. They have lost their entire starting LB corps this offseason. I voted for Kendricks to the Niners btw…although I voted for him to Miami as well.

    • jahndoh says:

      edit, sorry, not their entire starting LB corps, but half of it, and one of the remaining guys has been in and out of jail and rehab his entire career. They need someone. Kendricks, Perryman, or Anthony IMHO..in the draft.

  94. Tim Knight says:

    Jahn, that dude had FAIL written all over it as soon as he started moving. His pants falling down and getting pummeled by waves completed the full FAIL. Who ever filmed that had to be roaring laughing. LMAO!!!

    LOL @ his pants fell down in protest

  95. The Flying Pig says:

    That’s what you get when you wear pants to the beach!

  96. Al in MIA says:

    Agree about a point you made earlier regarding ‘power back’ vs ‘thumper’.
    To me it’s never been about a specific size persay when discussing ‘what is a power back?” but rather style and mentality of the runner.
    Clinton Portis had a nice NFL career and ran with the mentality of a power back (lowering his head to ram LB in the secondary levels at times).

    • Al in MIA says:

      To me it’s like the NBA and slashers…It’s never about size it’s about who tries to attack the rim and finish vs softies who try to avoid contact inside.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Yeah I knew Portis would be a good NFL back despite not being overly big coming out of college because he ran downhill all the time. I was a big fan of his at UM.

  97. Al in MIA says:

    Regarding draft strategy and specific picks that are perceived to be ‘reaches’.
    As Tim has pointed out in the past, teams don’t typical have a vertical list of BPA. They tend to have a horizontal list and tiers at each position with a value score of course for each player.
    The draft list is probably in combination with a list of their current roster and the value of each player relative to other NFL talent as determined by the GM and other analytical guys.
    In this concept, when a team is up on the board, they have to figure out what is likely on their next turn around and ‘reach’ for a player if they feel that need cannot be met at the team’s next pick. So really, there is a range for each team i guess in which they will slot a specific player.
    Last year that certainly came into play with James. Would he have gone lower? probably but how much lower? Miami couldn’t take their chances and probably did try to trade down but didn’t get any enticing offers given the risk of a must start OT talent guy.

  98. wyoming85 says:

    Just to let you know I’m the other one that picked Kendrick’s to the Fins! 🙂

  99. Al in MIA says:

    Tim Knight says:
    April 6, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    The position listings are not always correct, they listed Don Jones as a CB his first few years. I also don’t think D. Jones or Kovacs are ahead of Aikens and Gary is likely a long shot. This is just my opinion but don’t be surprised if it’s right. LOL
    Agree 100%.
    The website depth chart and roster is drafted up by staffers (not coaches).
    They don’t go to the coaches and go “hey i need your list of player with positions! so i can go upload it to the website!”.
    These people putting it together just google shit like everyone else and hope for the best.

    • Tim Knight says:

      They eventually get close to being accurate as the season goes on. I’ve seen changes made that reflect position and accurate measureables.

  100. stangerx says:

    Completely OT — but this ain’t photo shopped. Would be a pretty cool pet.

  101. jahndoh says:

    Stanger’s photo reminded me of this:
    Frequency of miracles chart:

  102. Al in MIA says:

    To add to Jahn’s point earlier on RB carries for Miller; there is evidence that RB production regresses in the following season when a player carries the ball over 300 times in a season (300/16=18.75). Going with a 2 headed attack is the way to go; especially in a WCO or open offense which spreads out the targets. Seahawks & Niners run more of a power run game than WCO concepts. You look at NE, NOLA, & GB offenses and they haven’t put any back over 300 carries in any of the last 5 years (that’s all i bothered looking up). Lacey had the most carries in a season over the last 5 for GB and that was 284 in 2013. Ridley had the most carries in a season for NE in the last 5 years in the 2012 season with 290 carries. NOLA hasn’t had anyone go over 226 carries in the last 5 years (Ingram this past season ran with it 226 times). The most any back carried the rock in a season the last 5 years in GB? 284 times by Lacey in 2013. No back other than Ryan Grant in 2009 has gotten more than 250 carries in the season over the last 5 years in GB. NE & NOLA both have had multiple seasons over the last 5 years where no back crossed the 200 carry mark. NE last year didn’t have 1 back go over 100 carries during the season. Hell, the last time NOLA was very good as a team (13-3 in 2011) the leading rusher was Ingram with 122 carries on the year. Pierre Thomas, Sproles, & Ivory were in a good rotation.

    • jahndoh says:

      Very interesting. Thanks for the research.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Good stuff, I’d like to see Miller get in the 250-260 range. More consistency utilizing him and a few more touches per game. He’s got the ability to get big chunks of yards and I think we should give him more opportunities to do so.

  103. wyoming85 says:

    stangerx says:

    April 6, 2015 at 5:04 pm

    LOL — but good luck catching him Elmer Fudd. 🙂
    I’ve never had a shotgun shoot around a corner back at myself!

  104. jahndoh says:

    Great minds Wyo, Great minds.

  105. Ken says:

    What’s up FUers? Nice write up Mike E. I am high on Miller right now and not the beer. I think he is a quality RB and is a legit no. 1 back.

  106. steveccnv says:

    I keep seeing over and over that we still need a safety, why?

  107. stangerx says:

    Jahn — this ain’t Weekly World News Stuff. Check out Fleming Rabbit. They are big.

  108. Tim Knight says:

    Stanger, I was going to post the rabbit article earlier. Then got distracted. Cool stuff.

    It would be funny seeing a hawk say oh look, a rabbit. As it descends to pounce the rabbit doesn’t get small enough and its like WTF?!!!! Abort!!! Abort!!! Pull Up!!! LOL

  109. Mike E. says:


    I expect us to have a two or three headed rushing attack. On the other hand, if Miller is running well, i don’t see why he can’t get 20 or more carries in a game. I also think he has been underutilized, as the run game itself has been underutilized.

  110. Mike E. says:

    That’s one vewy scwewy wabbit! It’s HUGE!!!

  111. The Flying Pig says:

    Looks like the 49ers are taking Kendricks…just one pick after us….lol

    • Tim Knight says:

      It’s directly related to Willis and Borland retiring. Classic need pick. If he was good enough for the 49ers he was good enough for us. If we’re following most of the draft site rankings for all prospects this is the biggest blunder thus far.

      • Mike E. says:

        I still say 49ers have more of a need than we do. They have 2 starting LB’s to replace.

  112. Mike E. says:

    LETS GO METS!!!! Break up the no-no with a 2 run double by Lucas Duda! Yeah baby!!!

  113. Al in MIA says:

    If the Niners are really interested in Kendricks they will have to trade up ahead of Miami perhaps. Who’s a trade partner in front of Miami? Maybe the Rams I guess if they want OL.

  114. The Flying Pig says:

    the Texans are on the clock

  115. Tim Knight says:

    Mike E, but not many of us are picking prospects listed in the late 20s and even 30s like Kendricks top 15. That’s where Kendricks is ranked just about everywhere. So this was the biggest jump even if he pans out as worthy of the pick. That’s all I’m saying.

  116. Tim Knight says:

    Catch you folks later.

  117. jahndoh says:

    Tim left, but when you get back Tim, I just want you to know I’m posting an alternative view to the website listings we use. You mentioned the 9er selection as a “blunder” but Bill Polian said last week on the radio:

    “The so-called experts that put out rankings and mock drafts out there are peddling nothing short of fiction. That might sound harsh, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that’s what it is.”

    I wrote it down when he said it because it was such a strong statement. He went on to say that as an exercise for a couple of years they put together a “consensus” draft board using these predictions and found that they were very much uncorrelated with actual draft results. The top 18 (I thought 18 was a weird number but he cited it several times) players or so are easy to list, but below that it’s just guesswork.

    That last bit is paraphrased because I don’t want to be misquoting him, but I don’t put too much stock into the idea that we mocked Hendricks in the mid-1st even if most mock drafts put him at 30.

    It’s not an indictment on anything or anyone, but it’s Polian’s point of view and I just wanted to share it. To me the only correlation in the rankings is that the top 15 players in college football who are entering the draft do tend to be the top players selected in the draft, but A player going 15th instead of 30th isn’t the same as a player going 1st instead of 15th.

    • Brian in NY says:

      These guys have nothing on most educated football fans. The team needs are easily identified, and then it’s purely researching the top prospects at each position and matching them up with the areas of need. Of course there are a few curveballs thrown in, but that’s with any situation. Great quote- thanks for sharing.

  118. jahndoh says:

    Hey Stanger, I didn’t doubt the rabbit was real, I just saw your mention of photoshop and thought of that “miracle” chart. 🙂

  119. Mike E. says:


    Watching the Met game? 3-1 Mets!

    • Brian in NY says:

      Hell yeah! Let’s go Mets!

      • Mike E. says:

        Colon was very impressive. He’s a real pro. Scherzer pitched great too, just a momentary lapse of concentration, and another error by Ian Desmond betrayed him.

      • Brian in NY says:

        Yes. Colon is an innings eater. Now we just have to hope this bullpen can put it together this year.

  120. Al in MIA says:

    On the subject of draft day RB, what’s everyones take on South Carolina’s Mike Davis?
    He’s Gore like in his frame 5′-9″ 217 lbs (exactly what Gore came into the NFL at).

    This was captured around the combine:
    02/19/15 – 2015 NFL Combine Quick Hits: South Carolina RB Mike Davis said he was 225-plus pounds during the season, but that he feels “a lot” better at 217, his current weight here at the NFL Combine. – Dane Brugler, NFLDraftScout.com

    • D says:

      I like him, but something about last year and how inconsistent he was kinda worries me. Its not that i dont think he will turn out to be a good back, im just not convinced as i would have been last year that he is a 2nd round kinda guy. If he lasts until our 4th round pick probably a good deal there.

    • steveccnv says:

      Is his head as big as Gore’s, you might think I’m trying to be funny, but I’m serious?

    • D says:

      Look into Rory Anderson and Corey Robinson, also good talent from South Carolina , Robinson has really dropped in the polls, similar to how Antonio Richardson did last year. Rory Anderson was in the wrong system and has a lot more talent than his stats show. They both also were reasons Davis looked good.

  121. steveccnv says:

    If the Niners want Kendricks, they can trade with us, we’ll gladly move back a few.

  122. Mike E. says:

    Nice win today against the Nats. METS 3 NATS 1

  123. The Flying Pig says:

    Looks pretty tight with the texans
    They have a few OL votes, some WR votes and Gurley votes
    I think 4 votes will win it

  124. Tim Knight says:

    Jahn, I have to say that the rankings, not mock drafts usually hold true for the most part in the 1st round and then it starts to veer off a bit. I don’t want to come off as Kendricks bashing because I like the kid and would like him on our team. But if it’s that way for Kendricks, then it’s like that for any of the prospects listed in that range and I read all the time here he won’t go that high when discussing other prospects. That’s all I’m saying.

  125. Ken says:

    Where did everyone go?

  126. stangerx says:

    Am I the only one sorry Kentucky ain’t playing tonight? Didn’t have a pony in the show, but the perfect season thing for sure would have made it more interesting. Right now I’m left with hoping the K Man doesn’t get one more……and I don’t have much against him to start with.

    • olddolphan says:

      YOUNG STANGER; Did you say “Perfect Season?? –Read below. please.

      • stangerx says:

        LOL OD — there can be more than one of those, but not this year in NCAA ball at least. Hope both you and the lucky coin feel better and that we beat the Jets tmrw. 🙂

  127. olddolphan says:

    Mrs. OD and I are taking turns hacking our brains out. This bug has a killer cough! –Looks like I’ll take my first full sick day tomorrow this year.
    But we are NEVER TOO SICK to enjoy a Jets/Dolphins game from the historic Orange Bowl!!! – – Game # 10 of the PERFECT SEASON was the most intense, the most raucous, game of the regular season!!!! – – The old saying in this bitter series is “the BEST hits were in the STANDS!!” –While the players disliked the “other team,” the fans of Miami and New York truly despised each other!! What are the details of the vile hatred Jets and Dolphin fans had for each other? –And what about the long standing feud between Morrall and Namath??

    This game lived up to the hype, and that’s SAYING A LOT!! –Demand for press passes was the highest in history for a regular season game. It seemed as though the earth stood still for about three hours as millions watched this epic back and forth game that was loaded with big plays and excruciating injuries, especially for the Jets. New York led this game by 10 points in the second quarter. It seemed like the Perfect Season was going down the tubes. Images of obnoxious Jet fans prancing around the sacred Orange Bowl danced in my mind.

    OF COURSE a HERO scored the winning touchdown! –But WHO was that Hero? –The Old Dolfan will put you square in the middle of absolute mayhem. TTHIS proved to be one of the greatest games ever played in the historic Orange Bowl. –Could our beloved Dolphins keep the dream alive??

    Read all about it tomorrow!!

  128. Mike E. says:


    Not sure how this site could be wrong. I did see the record you mentioned, I was off one win, but check this out. Shows every single opening day game, so maybe they made a mistake today, not sure.


  129. jahndoh says:

    I get ya. In regards to Perriman specifically, the difference between him and Kendricks is one of them earned that ranking status via 40 times from a pro-day, the other’s status has nothing to do with workouts. It’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out though. WRs tend to do a lot for themselves with fast 40 times.

    OD, Ken, Mrs. Ken, and Mrs. OD: +vibes! Get well!

    • Ken says:

      Thank you Jahn

    • Tim Knight says:

      Perriman was a late 1st/2nd pick all along. Most feel his 40 time got him closer to the 20s than 2nd is all. I saw Kendricks jump up after the combine not just because of his numbers, but he impressed teams with his character and it matched his film, he was 3rd round everywhere I looked when I was looking at LBs in Jan./Feb. I liked him as a 3rd because of that in some early mocks I did (not from a site, but from rankings and research).

      Ditto on everyone getting well on the bog who are dealing with being sick.

  130. Tim Knight says:

    Ken, glad you guys are on the mend. It sucks getting sick like that.

    • Ken says:

      It’s been a rough couple of weeks between illness, family issues and some other unexpected stuff. I could use a restart on a few things right about now. At least the bronchitis is getting better.

  131. Ken says:

    This delaying of the draft is really annoying. I am ready for it now. This dead time is driving me crazy.

  132. Tim Knight says:

    Man, it’s hard finishing the undefeated feat. Kentucky players and fans acted like asses but the reality is Wisconsin earned it. That’s sport and competition. That’s what this is all about, not projected milestones. That’s why they play the games.

    • Try Pod says:

      I went to some local shops the day after Kentucky lost. Gone were the shirts proclaiming “40-0 Undefeated”, and in there place we’re shirts proclaiming 31-0 Regular Season”. Buncha douches.

      • Try Pod says:

        Full disclosure- my wife, her father, her grandfather and various other relatives all went to UK. My wife and her father both did their undergrads @ UK and both prefer UL to UK.

  133. The Flying Pig says:

    I’m ready to close the aTexans poll but its a tie between Gurley and Flowers

    Some one who hasn’t voted, please break the tie

  134. Tim Knight says:

    I voted for Alvin Dupree because they’re looking for 3-4 OLBs and guarding against Clowney not being ready or the same.

  135. The Flying Pig says:

    Flowers just won with 3 votes


    • Try Pod says:

      You’re welcome, though I still think Spunky should have already been picked.

    • Tim Knight says:

      I don’t think the texans need OL at the top. They allowed 26 sacks with no set QB, and rushed for almost 2,200 yards. Unless they lost OL I’m not aware of. Most of their OL was drafted 3-7 and coached up by John Benton over the years. That’s what we’re trying to do here with our own players.

      LT Albert – UFA (former 1st 2008)
      LG Thomas – 3rd (2013)
      C Pouncey – 1st (2011)
      RG Turner – 3rd (2014)
      RT James – 1st (2014)

      It takes some time but now is the time to get this group going – of course if Albert is ready sooner than later.

  136. The Flying Pig says:

    The Chargers are on the clock

  137. wyoming85 says:

    That’s what I get for doing chores!
    Screwed out of my vote!

  138. wyoming85 says:

    I like Jones a lot!
    I like Delmas when HEALTHY!
    The rest are not proven!

  139. son of a son of a shula says:

    The O-liners wasted no time jumping on San Diego who i think went Oline for the last 2 or 3 years

  140. Brian in NY says:

    Updated mocks from CBSSports. They are all over the map:

    Dorial Green-Beckham WR | Oklahoma
    Todd Gurley RB | Georgia
    Trae Waynes CB | Michigan State
    Jaelen Strong WR/ Arizona State

  141. Tim Knight says:

    Brian, drafted players within 1-3 have to step up. They are drafted to make an immediate impact, get into the mix or develop in a few years. If that doesn’t happen you have busts.

    I don’t care if Ireland drafted Thomas, a lot of us bloggers liked him in as a pick for LG. That’s where he is now. He wasn’t ready coming off of shoulder surgery as a rookie and didn’t play. Last year he got tossed into the fire and had some good moments at both G and T, but he had some standout bad moments that everyone remembers. Coaches think they can correct those things and so can the player.

    I remember Philbin addressing Thomas and said if you look at the tape, there is a lot of good stuff but too many bad technique issues show up.. It’s not a strength issue for Thomas, it’s technique and using leverage. Philbin says both the coaches and players have to do a better job.

    It is a process, but I know that calendar thing is huge. LOL

    We have a very tall OL with players who have played both G and T. Pouncey the exception.
    LT 6-5
    LG 6-5
    C 6-5
    RG 6-4
    RT 6-6

    I believe Tannehill being 6-4 and mobile is part of this plan.

    • Brian in NY says:

      It’s concerning to me that Thomas is still having technique issues in his second season. What’s especially concerning to me, is I saw his get tossed around and beaten severly on a number of occassons, ala Martin. When I see a guy get beaten that badly on this level, I see a guy who doesn’t belong.

  142. Tim Knight says:

    Where does anyone see the lateral rankings as opposed to vertical – putting them in chronological order? At what point in the 1st round does it become preference and a different view?

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      I don’t know what you are asking. What’s chronological order?

      • Brian in NY says:

        The order in which they were born?

      • Tim Knight says:

        You have to go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5… etc. That doesn’t mean 2 and 5 are much different or at all. Someone has to make an order. That’s where the lateral board comes into play.

        There is usually a top 2, 3, 5 or 10 and then it starts to widen. That’s what I’m asking.

      • son of a son of a shula says:

        LOL, that’s all I could come up with too. Must draft oldest to youngest

      • jahndoh says:

        No you don’t Tim, you list those players, by name, horizontally on your board. Then you choose the one who fits best. You don’t have to rank them 1,2,3,4,5. You just pick the one of the five that fits best.

    • Brian in NY says:

      Maybe that is the point where some teams start drafting more for need or BPA Tim.

  143. The Flying Pig says:

    And the San Diego chargers select the oldest man alive

    Chronological Order!

  144. Brian in NY says:

    Great game taking place right now.

  145. The Flying Pig says:

    I think Jahn is right

    You are not necessarily ranking guys
    You are probably picking from a group

    It makes a little sense in the later rounds bc you can say
    Okay this CB is my tier 3 guy and that is what we are picking now – tier 3 guys
    But we picked a CB in the first
    So I’m picking the tier 3 LB now

  146. The Flying Pig says:

    I voted Dupree to the chargers thinking the chargers would address RB later

    But I have to admit Gurley makes sense to the chargers

  147. Tim Knight says:

    Oy! Off to races on that one. LOL

    I believe in the horizontal board. My question was where does it become apparent? We know the two QBs and Williams are at the top and few other guys follow. After that where does it even out? It was just a question, not a declaration. LOL

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      I think I need hand gestures or something, I’m just not following or understanding you

      • Tim Knight says:

        1, 2, 3, 4 or 5… (maybe I should have said linear instead)
        as opposed to…
        1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 1e with a difference of 7.5 to 7.3 rankings. GMs are not following Rob Rang. So what position makes sense? If you’re looking at an 8.3 vs. a 7.3 I ask why is this guy still available?

        I don’t know what else to say. We’ve done this for years. It’s all good. 🙂

    • Brian in NY says:

      Get the pitch forks and torches! Tim’s a monster!

    • jahndoh says:

      Where does it become apparent? On the wall in the war room?

      LOL @ Son. If I ask for a hand gesture I think I’m getting the bird. 😛

      • Brian in NY says:

        Or even worse, you get Mike E…

      • jahndoh says:

        Wait… if you’re asking where do the players start to group together with less differentiation, I can only re-iterate what I heard Polian say…averaging at pick 18. After 18 he says most of them are really 2nd round type players so it comes down to club fit and preference.

        Maybe that helps? Now’s where I ask for your mercy. I’m actually trying to answer you question..sorry if I failed miserably.

  148. The Flying Pig says:

    (Piggy shoots a bird at Son)

  149. jahndoh says:

    Lol@ Brian.

  150. Brian in NY says:

    Wisconsin is looking real good tonight. Up by 8

  151. Tim Knight says:

    Jahn, have you ever seen a dropoff in a draft? That’s what is apparent. I was asking what you and everyone else sees. I guess I didn’t come off that way. So let’s start again, do you see it or not? Why does this get so complex?

    • jahndoh says:

      A dropoff in talent? I think it happens somewhere around 10-12 in this draft. JMHO of course.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Right before we pick…lol

      • jahndoh says:

        Unfortunately for us Piggy, that does seem to be the spot. I alluded to this earlier this offseason when I started asking folks what we are going to do if the top 3 WRs are off the board.

        That said, I think dropoffs and close groupings probably exist through out the draft.

      • Tim Knight says:

        That’s all I was asking. That’s when the lateral board comes into play.

        They say okay the guys we figured would be off the board are gone. Who’s our guy?

        13 or so thru 35 or 40 is what Polian is talking about, not the top 10-12.

  152. The Flying Pig says:

    Speaking of the trotter Miss Piggy gets

    I hope everyone is ready for Colonpokey tomorrow!

  153. The Flying Pig says:

    Not surprised that a call goes Dukes way

  154. The Flying Pig says:


  155. The Flying Pig says:

  156. steveccnv says:

    I like Jones a lot!
    I like Delmas when HEALTHY!
    The rest are not proven

    I think we all feel that way, my point was why is safety a priority when the starters are set? Is Wanny drafting again, well we need an LB for special teams, so lets take one in the second.

    We need a CB, only one proven starter, one LB, at least one OG, and a WR. We could use more depth on the Oline and LB (after drafting one of each to start or compete to start), TE and Safety, but I wouldn’t put those positions as a need.

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