DEVANTE PARKER
On to Rounds 2 and 3
Our Picks
Round 1, Pick 14 (14th overall) – Devante Parker, WR, Louisville
Round 2, Pick 14 (47th overall)
Round 4, Pick 15 (114th overall)
Round 5, Pick 13 (149th overall)
Round 5, Pick 14 (150th overall)
Round 6, Pick 15 (191st overall)
The Best Available Oinks
TJ Clemmings (OL)
Paul Dawson (LB)
La’el Collins (OL/Potential Murder Suspect)Preston Smith (Edge)
Daniel Hunter (Edge)
Finsmob Unleashed 
I am bummed about this as it dims the value of the Matt Hazel pick from last year.
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NOT
I don’t see any downside to this pick.
He has even already been living in Miami and not gettin into even a hint of trouble.
Well Naples, maybe the get fed up with Matthews’ slow development (or trade him) on Hazel can stick. They could carry 6 WR’s too.
Nice Pick Piggy!
yay we have a complete WR core. now we just need to keep Tannehill upright so he can complete some passes to the WR’s
I should change my AVI again because we are not really freaking out.
Do you think we have Mathis secretly stashed to come in @ OG?
Boone is also looking to get out of SF … do we have enough money left to get him?
BPA @ need still available on my Big Board are Eric Kendricks, Eric Rowe, Ameer Abdullah (to be the next Darren Sproles like NO had when they went to the Super Bowl). If we had him leaking out of the backfield after that wave of WRs we have to draw away all the DB coverage, he could get 25yds a catch. Vereen did that to us as well.
I have concerns about ILB Perryman and McKinney, but both are possible picks for us @ 47.
Does anyone think that it is eerie that there is total silence from us and him and the pundits and the league on Knowshon?
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It could mean he has not recovered and might never play again or it could mean he is off the radar and we are keeping him a secret so we can bring him back for cheap if we need to or want after the draft.
I was at a birthday party and couldn’t get on to see
Did anyone cut their wrists over the Parker pick?
Some were not excited, but no one committed seppuku.
I was rally surprised to see Anthony and Shaq Thompson go off the board before Kendrick’s
I wonder if Kendrick’s can stay in the board for 15 more picks
And ideal situation for me would be to trAde down, obtain another 3rd
And then nab a lb and OG with our next 2 picks
Rally, I was…
Lol I know it cones from a waitress but when I hear it I think bugs bunny lol
Actress….how the fuck autocorrect
Heard a few teams failed Kendricks medically. It wasn’t universal but some red flagged him
DLs in our division are all very sick. Brown was my favorite DL outside Williams. Its going to be a brutal inter-division battle this year
I think they carry 6 wrs because we are young there and we a so slot centric and run so many middle routes the chance for injury is somewhat high. I also think hazel has as good an opportunity to make the team as Matthews and it could be parked in PS again if need be.
Jordan may gave freed up enough money to afford boone and it be pretty much a was. Did anyone see if we are still on the hook for his pay?
my understanding is that Jordan is not going to be paid this year
I’m ecstatic over this pick and tbh if we hit on one more player I really liked I won’t care if the rest ofvtge picks us Darrell and his other brother Darrell
I still want Hardy
me too but taking a wide receiver in the first probably means we won’t do that
Rockphin says at 6:00 AM;”Now if we can just keep Tanny upright . . .” – – Well, guess what? –WE CAN’T KEEP TANNY UPRIGHT with the players currently on the team. – – That’s especially true if Albert is not ready to go for game one. We absolutely, positively, must take the best available O-Lineman in round two AND the best available O-Lineman in round 5 or 6 to provide us the depth WE DID NOT HAVE LAST SEASON when Albert went down. – – NOT opposed in the slightest to the selection of Parker. I believe Hickey has made another sound selection with a first round pick, UNLIKE HIS PREDECESSOR who proved to be a disaster with most of his early picks.
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NOW a question for Piggy and Mike E.; WHICH highly rated O-Linemen might be available in round two when Miami picks?? –I think we all are eagerly awaiting your responses.–Talk to you after work. GOOO-O-O-O Fins!!
Kendricks LB and Fisher OL are some “please be there” guys for our 15th pick today…. lots of solid talent still there.
Naples, I hope we do have a ‘secret’ plan for a veteran Guard, because right now it feels like we have one cork in a two-holed boat.
AMEN, Dr. Rhino!!
“Owner Stephen Ross may have been pulling for Todd Gurley but the “football minds” have linked Parker to the Dolphins since before the Combine. His traits mesh perfectly with Lazor’s offense and, despite adding Kenny Stills and Greg Jennings, the ‘phins needed more talent outside. Parker is a ball magnet, dropping just three passes since 2012, and makes acrobatic catches look easy, a la Odell Beckham.”
… dropping just three passes since 2012.. that’s what we need!!!
3. ERIC KENDRICKS, UCLA (6-0, 234, 4.60, 1-2): Made 42 starts. “Tough, quick, sudden, plays fast,” one scout said. “Just hurt all the time. He can blow stuff up if he wants to. He may be blown up, too.” His brother, Mychal, was a mid-second round pick by the Eagles in 2012 and has started ever since. Eric scored 32 on the Wonderlic compared to 14 for Mychal. “He can run but he’s not his brother (he ran 4.46),” a second scout said. “He probably can play three downs effectively.” Started at RILB in coach Jim Mora’s 3-4 defense. “He’s too small to thrive in a 3-4,” a third scout said. “Between his instincts and his willingness, he can do it. But you wouldn’t be playing to his strengths if you made him play uncovered in a 3-4.” Finished with UCLA-record 480 tackles (26 for loss), 10 sacks and 11 big plays. “He’s really, really small,” a fourth scout said. “Perryman is small, too, but he’s thick. Kendricks has a different sort of body type.” Rejected medically by one team (knee). From Fresno, Calif. His father, Marv, was Bruins’ leading rusher in 1970-’71.
Link right here for the above:
http://m.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-nfl-draft-prospects-linebackers-b99487244z1-301505991.html
SO, DBOLT, getting Kendricks to play O-Line is completely out of the question, eh??
I’m BPA in round 2. We do have to pick up an OG, but only if he’s BPA in rd 2
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/1/8527585/rams-rb-who-tweeted-yikes-after-draft-pick-requests-trade
if Cameron Erving were available… would we keep Pouncey at guard? or move Erving to guard?
Time to adress the OL. Get the best OL available at pick #15. LB and CB are on the back burner until the O-line is addressed. That is first and foremost.
OL available: Fisher, Erving, Cann…. One of these should be available… Cann has best chance (4 year starter)
Erving is gone.
As will Fisher within the first few picks of the 2nd round. …Cann doesn’t appear to be a natural fit for us.
Erving was drafted , and FWIW, he was announced as G Cameron Erving
“According to Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Dolphins and Eagles were close to working out a trade for now suspended Dion Jordan. The trade would’ve given Miami a late round conditional pick. Furthermore, the Eagles tried to trade offensive guard Evan Mathis in the deal but the Dolphins weren’t interested.”
rgs and MikeE… totally forgot about the Guard Erving. 🙂 typing on the fly with 2 mins before work. LOL I thought it was odd that they said Guard instead of Center for Erving…
Apparently that’s where he’ll be playing.
rgs – Would you trade up to get Fisher? I might be inclined, but I’d also be satisfied with Ali Marpet. What do you think?
Like the new background except for the shameful pitch for Tide detergent. lol
I actually use Tide detergent, and it’s pretty effective.
Great pick round one
red zone beast, smart pick
Actually when was the last time we took an offense weapon in the first ?
Ronnie brown ?
(Please don’t say ginn lol)
It’s been awhile
It has been a while
2012 Ryan Tannehill. 🙂
He said weapon, not second level qb!
I’d like to add an OL with our #47 but there looks like there will be quite a few good prospects at difference positions for us.
It all depends on what they think of the guys we have in house on the O-line. I’m not impressed with what we have, but I’m not the GM or HC.
I haven’t seen enough of Thomas at LG or Turner play much at all so I really don’t know.
According to James Walker: “The Dolphins even fielded several calls from teams looking to move into the No. 14 slot. That’s why Miami used a majority of its 10 minutes to turn in the pick.”
I either wanted to get Parker or trade down……..guess I was set either way.
What’s up FUers? Loved our round 1 pick last night. Actually I like it more than Gurley who I thought was going to be the pick. Rams surprised me a little bit taking him at 10. But I really wanted a WR. Now I want OL. Let’s go get Jake Fisher. Too many good DTs in our division. We need interior OL now.
Very happy for our friend Dorsett
First round to Indy
Good fit for him, great kid
Best of luck to him in the future
We were laughing last night
He’s going to need to buy a coat lol
He’s a friend of yours?
(Piggy slides to the left)
doobie doo
(Piggy slides to the right)
doobie doo
(Lightning crashes behind Piggy)
(singing) And that’s the Samurai dance!!!
LMAO!!!!
Now that the Pig is doing the Samurai maybe Mike E gets happy and we snag La’el too.
Gonna be interesting to see where he goes. My guess is no team is going to get him with say a 6th or a 7th. At that point his smart move would be to sit out a year and, if he is cleared, collect a guarantees of a first round contract in 2016.
Let me know if you guys have any suggestions to the best available oinks above
Denzel Perryman
Jake Fisher would be a good pick for us as he’s a really good fit in our ZBS and could help us at tackle and guard.
Yes
He is a quality pick in round 2
I would have taken him before a lot of other OL that were taken yesterday
I thought a lot of teams took lesser quality on the OL and were sort of desperate at OL
Bunch of quality prospects left on the board: Kendricks, Landon Collins, Fisher & Maxx Williams
I would not trade up
And I forgot to mention Randy Gregory
who may not be a boy scout but is still high quality
All right folks
gotta a lot work to do today
I leave updating the best available oinks if necessary to any of the other administrators id they are so inclined to add anyone
Dbolt reported yesterday that Gregory was falling due to suspected mental issues.
The OL taken yesterday were the bigger more physical guys. Fisher isn’t a fit for every team.
wow after thinking about our pick I’m excited about our receivers. Now we need to shore up the o-line like everyone is saying.
Pretty crazy how we overhauled the WR position so quickly. Also did it at 1/5 of the cost that it was.
yup. I think we improved our receivers this year and got Suh. Nice job so far.
from jackson
“### Knowing the interior of their line needs bolstering, the Dolphins raced around to audition several guards in the past three weeks, including South Carolina’s A.J. Cann, FSU’s Tre Jackson and Josue Matias, UM’s Jon Feliciano, Pittsburgh tackle/guard T.J. Clemmings, and Louisville’s John Miller. They hosted Texas A&M’s Jarvis Harrison and Hobart’s Ali Marpet.
Another player they like at guard, LSU’s La’el Collins, remains available, his stock having tumbled because of an ongoing police investigation. (Google for details, if you aren’t aware.) Also still available, entering round two: Oregon tackle Jake Fisher, who the Dolphins brought in for a visit as a potential guard option.”
The Flying Pig says:
May 1, 2015 at 9:45 am
And I forgot to mention Randy Gregory
who may not be a boy scout but is still high quality
Reply
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Mental issues & concussion issues with Gregory. They are saying his his heads a mess.
That is a shame
I wouldn’t be surprised if we draft two OL.
Piggy – Gotta add, TJ Clemmings, Ali Marpet and Paul Dawson. IMO
I thought Dawson and Marpet were more like 3rd rounders
Clemmings I missed
If you have access from wherever you are feel free to add whomever you like
I have to focus on my paying job today…lol
ok, will do
Boulder
I’m excited about our weapons too
Stills, Parker, Jennings and Landry
plus Cameron at TE
I think we can use one of our 5ths to get another quality TE to add to that group
I’m not opposed to adding Maxx Williams or Eric Walford either
I have a feeling right now Fisher tops our draft board
but if he is gone, I would not be surprised to see us add a weapon or go D and add a LB, pass rusher or DB
Sims and Lynch will be in the mix at TE. Don’t hate on the big boys. There are only so many touches to go around and that includes the RBs.
Yeah
But that said, we did want to keep Clay
O’Leary reminds me of Clay
fisher would be a solid pick.
Piggy – I hope Tide is paying for that advertisement! 🙂
?
Piggy,
I was surprised to see Fisher not drafted in RD 1.
I like him better than Cedric for the risk/reward trade off but I understand why the Bengals did what they did.
Fisher is this year’s Lane Johnson IMO.
That’s pretty high praise
I think there is going to be an early run on OL in the second round.
I think at least 2 will go pretty early
I don;t know about a run
there is not much ammo there
Going Max Williams in round 2 would be very interesting. Still need OL but man we would have weapons.
Piggy,
I think the TE market is underrated as opposed to what everyone keeps saying (that it sucks).
Blake Bell intrigues and to me can be had much later than Maxx/Clive.
I would love to trade back in round 2 and somehow reclaim our 3rd round pick
but it would be hard to do that given the quality prospects on the board
if some one like Kendricks, Clemmings, Landon Collins or Fisher fell to us – I don;t know that trading back would be such a good idea
maybe we can trade into the 3rd round by giving up our 4th and that extra 5th?
Piggy
Our new background is a Tide advertisement
Oh
I didn’t set the background
There is actually a lot of edge guy left
I happen to like Mario Edwards a lot
Al – Tell’em who Ali Marpet is. This years ________?
Landon Collins – S
Jake Fisher (OL)
Erick Kendricks (LB)
Does they really fall that far?
Thought of the day: Greg Jennings is our 4th WR.
Ali Marpet
Ali Marpet
Ali Marpet
Ali Marpet
That is all.
I eitheer want Landon Collins or McKinney, Safeties and LB’s are about to start coming off the board fast and we really need to land a good talent there. I think 4th still has some good OL prospects, and/or we should be looking to pick up a 3rd rounder in a trade back.
“If we had him leaking out of the backfield”
Too much Olestra Naples.
grades
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000489141/article/2015-nfl-draft-day-1-quicksnap-grades-for-afc-teams
The idea of draft grades at this point is really just silly. These guys have not even gone to minicamp yet.
So in this article he says many had Parker as the top WR in this draft and lauds Miami for not trading up to land him & gives Miami an eye. He then makes out that the Patriots pulled off a Christmas Day miracle drafting Brown, who was expected to go in the late 1st by most, and they get an A+
Keep your eye on Zach Vigil later in the draft as a MLB. The other item is Tripp showed good instincts when he played last year but needed to add strength especially after his injury early in the year. In a recent photo he looked bigger than Misi. Maybe inside the team they aren’t as concerned with MLB than what we are, but who knows.
Draft starts at 7 PM EST tonight.
7 minutes max per pick.
We go at #14.
Without a trade sounds like us on the board btwn eight and eight thirty.
We go at 15 to igt
Tonight
My bad…..switch the timing window to 8:05 to 8:35. 🙂
That’s better
I doubt a rookie TE makes much of an impact.
… dropping just three passes since 2012.. that’s what we need!!!
Rhino With Landry & Sims we already had the number 2 & 3 (I think that’s right) WR’s in terms of target / catch percentage in the league last year (both over 75%). With the addition of Parker, Tannehill’s completion percentage is just going to go up! WOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!
First down. First down First down.
That is another Miami Dolphins FIRST DOWN
TOUCH DOWN!
The more I think about it, the more I love the Parker pick. Yes, I would have lived Gurley, but Parker is a better pick for us. We HAVE to figure out this OL this offseason or Tannehill is going to get killed by an AFC east DL this season.
It at least is certainly a better pick for a FO that need to win now. Part of why — even if I liked the thought — never thought Gurley would happen.
I’m glad that someone took him before us instead of us selecting someone else.
Our division probably has 4 of the top 5 DLs in the NFL now. Unfortunately we have to face 3 of them 2x.
Yep. We need to get those guard spots solidified ASAP
Solidifying the OG spot and thinking that is coming from a draft pick even a second round one is kinda scary. We need to be thinking trade for another teams vet OG or just keep moving forward with the guys we have. I know everyone’s opinion on our guys but honestly do you think any if the guys left fill that spot with any more confidence? I can’t see how you can feel that way
Ali Marpet
Ali Marpet
Ali Marpet
That is all
(OH and TYLER FUCKING VARGA tomorrow)
Brian:
I am glad that Gurley was taken ahead of us. Like you I am enamored with his talent but very worried about his injury history. I was really on the fence if we should take him. He has the chance to be special or to be on the IR frequently. I also thought Miller had a very solid season for us especially late in the year where he seemed to really take over the feature back role. To me WR was the bigger need. Gurley may have been the better talent but we didn’t have to sweat the decision. We got an impact player. Can’t argue with that.
Agreed
In our offense I felt all along that WR and OL was the way to go. We added the kind of WR in Parker that we didn’t have, a tall guy with length.
D:
I think we are likely to sign a vet OG after the June 1 cuts. Likely to be someone coming available then. But I also think we need to draft someone as well. Still guys out there that I think can play early on.
OK then draft a guy in a later round to develop get a playmaker on defense with our second. That seems smarter to me
We need to draft an OL prospect but there ar none I have any confidence will make an impact this year. I’d rather trade a pick for a vet with proven history at this point
D,
I agree about drafting a guard. We can bank on that. I really think Turner will develop, but IMO, I this Dallas Thimas is depth. We could be in the same position at the beginning of camp if we don’t sign a vet. Just not confident enough to draft one expecting him to be the answer. There is too much at stake. We should do both.
Mr. Broken Record (Me) states we MUST draft the best OL in RD 2
I think we may go LB Mike.
Existe la posibilidad , pero yo no lo creo
Ali Marpet….that is all
BOOM BOOM BOOOM (Rockphin banging the drum)
Branden Albert – Ali Marpet – Mike Pouncey – Billy Turner – Ja’Wuan James
Jason Fox – Jeff Linkenbach – Sam Brenner – Dallas Thomas – Jacques McClendon,
I am really not all that terrified of going into the season with these guys as our O’line…
Hope for some upgrades / additional depth but There are some very good pieces there.
We need to develop a better back up Tackle.
Mike E,
“THAT BEAST ALI REMINDS ME OF MYSELF”
LOL! There you have it! 🙂
Would be good to have in the post above our picks in this year’s draft:
Round 1, Pick 14 (14th overall) – Devante Parker, WR, Louisville
Round 2, Pick 14 (47th overall)
Round 4, Pick 15 (114th overall)
Round 5, Pick 13 (149th overall)
Round 5, Pick 14 (150th overall)
Round 6, Pick 15 (191st overall)
Rock,
The Fins did workout TJ Clemmings late in the process but he’s expected to go early today before Miami picks. If he doesn’t because of a run on RB/WR (which always happens in Rd 2) then perhaps Miami selects him. OT is very deep this year and teams in RD 1 that needed interior DL passed on those guys for skilled position players and may go DT in RD 2.
Gigi (@Mrs2620) says:
May 1, 2015 at 10:59 am
Would be good to have in the post above our picks in this year’s draft:
Round 1, Pick 14 (14th overall) – Devante Parker, WR, Louisville
Round 2, Pick 14 (47th overall) – Ali Marpet
Round 4, Pick 15 (114th overall) – Best available LB
Round 5, Pick 13 (149th overall) – Best available Safety
Round 5, Pick 14 (150th overall) – Tyler FUCKING Varga
Round 6, Pick 15 (191st overall) – Best Available PUNTER! (Sorry)
LOL ROCK….DENZEL PERRYMAN — IF WE GET HIM IT WILL BE A MIRACLE!
Gigi,
My dad’s reaction to the Parker pick “What are these (Fins) guys doing? Bunch of idiots drafting a WR who won’t be able to catch passes from a bad QB” LOL.
He’s not a fan of Tannehill at all; believes he will never improve his deep throw despite what the data suggests. I just laugh and try to tell him what the data says but he’s like “seeing (eye ball test) is believing”; doesn’t believe WR route running is a valid excuse because it’s happening to various receivers aside from Wallace.
If Tannehill still cannot hit the deep ball with a whole new set of receivers, then I will agree with your Dad….lol. I saw Parker play a lot – he scores TDs something our prior WRs have been unable to do and he goes after the ball is not lazy.
Al — why didn’t you tell us before that you were Randy’s son?
D says:
May 1, 2015 at 10:56 am
OK then draft a guy in a later round to develop get a playmaker on defense with our second. That seems smarter to me
Reply
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Bobby Hart FSU or Joe Feliciano UM could be good targets later. Right now if we dropped down in the second and gain a 3rd we might see Miami go back to back with Canes picks, Perryman & The Duke.
Mike E,
“THEY KEEP SAYING I PLAYED NOTHING BUT DIII COMPETITION…..IF I HAD NO PROBLEMS STONING THE BEST D1 INTERIOR LINEMEN AT THE SENIOR BOWL, WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT THEM?”
That was big for me. You take a Div III player, and put him up against the best college talent out there, and he does well, that’s all I neded to know. If Jake Fisher is there (Doubt it) I’d take Fisher first, but if we stay put, and Marpet is there (He should be), I’d take him.
Both guys would be good additions and up the competition for us.
Thank you. AGREED!
Dbolt,
Time to double down at WR? LOL.
I’ll take Smelter if not Conley 🙂
Stanger,
LOL @ Randy’s son…
Gigi (@Mrs2620) says:
May 1, 2015 at 11:07 am
LOL ROCK….DENZEL PERRYMAN — IF WE GET HIM IT WILL BE A MIRACLE!
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Gigi, I like Denzel, I just think he is too small. I would prefer McKinney over him.
We did add some recent additions to the OL to compete with guys we already had. Turner is a guy the coaches really like and Thomas will be given a shot at guard too. I think we’ll add OL in this draft but I don’t think the team is as concerned as fans are about the OL. One reason is some of the young guys in the mix have more experience now and are expected to improve. Another reason is the makeup of the OL will be different than last year starting with Pouncey back at center.
We had a different lineup almost every week last year due to injuries and a lot of it was patchwork where I think this year there is more of a plan with certain guys.
I really like Perryman. I’d love to have him on the Dolphins, but not at the expense of skipping the O-line. If he’s still there in the 3rd, I’d trade up to get him, give up our 4th and next years 2nd or 3rd.
How about Anthony going 1st RD? He was my favorite ILB
Perfect example of how teams and draftniks grade prospects differently.
Yep
Enjoy the 2nd day guys. Wish I could watch and comment with you. Heading out.
Vacation?
Board meeting and tonight fundraising event for my old organization in DC. So I’ll be kissing ass to get us more funds while the pick goes down. But hey nice people…..they are the ones who are interested in giving it away.
“Sorry I have to go see who the Phins pick”…….might not be the way to go.
I’m not worried about LB in RD 2….
I still like the value plays in this draft…
OLB/ILB varies
Jordan Hicks (intrigues Piggy)
Mike Hull (a Dbolt favorite)
Jake Ryan (various ppl in here like him including me).
Ben Heeney
Bryce Hager
Jeff Luc
Zach Virgil
I like Jake Ryan. Think he would do well in our D, especially with someone like Suh and Mitchell eating blockers up in front of him.
Ali Marpet es una bestia . Dolphins estarán encantados de tenerlo en su línea ofensiva
If you did you better spit it out!
I can see us looking at LB in the 4th or 5th round. I’m not sold that there is a LB in this draft that comes in and wows everyone.
What to do what to do?
Benardrick McKinney, LB, Mississippi State (no on Al’s silly list above)
OR
Ali Marpet
I don;t think Marpet is a 2nd rounder
McKinney is though
if guys like Kendricks and Fisher are off the board I think we might be able to trade down and still get a Marpet or a McKinney
Jake Fisher. Perfect ZBS OL. Can play OG or OT as can Marpet but Fisher is more polished. Played at Oregon. Faced some really good DLs in pac 10 as well as in practice.
I added McKinney to the Best Oinks above
I can;t believe I forgot him
I like him a lot
Also I added Gigi’s suggestion about the picks
Thank you!
Some of my favorite tweets from last night….
https://twitter.com/FootballSavages/status/593983195198062592
https://twitter.com/FootballSavages/status/593983642138841090
https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/594012815402250240
https://twitter.com/Spoon_r13/status/593983928089776128
https://twitter.com/FootballSavages/status/593980828687831040
Then for all the Miami natives here…WOWzers what talent
https://twitter.com/DeVanteParker09/status/593975664803336192
I think there is a good chance Fisher and/or Marpet will be there for us in the 2nd.
Kenn Still gets it😂😂😂😂😂
@KSTiLLS: Bleacher report > Omar Kelly
Awesome
I have a new fav player….lol!
owe you a beer.
LOL 🙂
Kenny Stills has just become one of my favorite players
Al,
Yes on doubling up on WRs. Hardy, Conley, Lewis, or SMelter👍
I don’t see us going WR in the 2nd.
Those guys are mostly 4th round on