The Wedge Scouting Report: Budda Baker, Safety

Wondering where I was lately?

I was checking out draft prospects of course!

Oh and one more thing…

I found religion!

wedge religion

No more planet destruction for me

No more killing of lifeforms

I’ve turned over a new life.

And now I love all things in the universe


See it all started when I met the wonderful Xxuanoahs of Moon 32

We found this mysterious obelisk together

And we worship it now!

Oh yeah…I also discovered a terrific prospect – Budda Baker


Budda Baker is an undersized safety from Washington

Yes undersized – the cat is out of the bag already.

At 5’9, 195 pounds Budda Baker does not have prototypical NFL size

But don’t be a foolish Earthling and judge Budda so harshly


Baker will tell you himself:

“God made me this height, and all I can say is watch the film.  We always talk about how the film will set you free, so now matter how tall you are, how big you are, if you watch the film everything will take care of itself”.

It’s Baker’s commitment to film study and his craft that has him ranked as a 2nd round prospect in the upcoming draft.



Baker is physical enough to take down ball carriers in the NFL.  He doesn’t shy away from contact.

All that film study helps him diagnose the play and take at the ball carriers feet from under him.

And occasionally he will lay a good hit not on the ball carrier.


But that is really not what makes special

What jumps out about Baker, besides some great instincts and football smarts, is how much field he covers.

Baker is rangy and accelerates quickly

At the combine, Baker showed good speed running a 4.45 40.

He also recorded a 6.76 3 cone drill and 4.08 20 yard shuttle showing off his athleticism and his high school track past.


Baker started for Washington since he was a Freshman

He proved himself to be very durable since then, starting 40 of 41 games since his Freshman year.

All those starts helped him accumulate five interceptions, 18 pass breakups, 199 tackles, 13 tackles for a loss and 4 sacks during his career.  He led the Huskies in tackles in 2016.


Because of his size and his position, you see a lot of scouting comparisons to pro bowlers Bob Sanders and the Tyrone Mathieu

But I like to compare him to an explosive obelisk

…oh about that finding religion stuff…um…well I lied


The Obelisk was a bomb I placed on Moon 32…

hee hee

If I was to compare Budda Baker to an Alien Weapon of Destruction, I would compare him to the Exploding Sucker Oblisk of Mood 32


You can watch Baker’s highlights here!

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285 Responses to The Wedge Scouting Report: Budda Baker, Safety

  1. Brian in NY says:

    Nice job Wedge. Personally, I love Budda Baker. He has great instincts, can cover, and is not afraid to stick his nose in to make a tackle. My guess is he doesn’t make it out of the late first/early second round.

    • Brian in NY says:

      After just watching his tape, he could either play S or nickel for us. Dude looks like a CB.

      • steveccnv says:

        That’s the same things they’re saying about Peppers, and the drawback is why draft him in the first, if you’re going to play him at nickel.

  2. wyoming85 says:

    • Mike E. says:

      Which part is Earl Thomas? Maybe he could luck into an INT once in awhile? 1 INT total?

      Earl Thomas as a Freshman and Sophomore only had 10 INT’s.

      NOT Earl Thomas!!!

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Michigan didn’t really use him to play center field
        So they kind of took it away from position to get ints and it worked to make them one of the best defenses in the country

      • Mike E. says:

        Even if he was a LB Piggy, 1 INT. I just don’t see the comparison to Earl Thomas

  3. sb7mvp says:

    Right on time with the safety scouting report

  4. Mike E. says:

    Good work Piggy! Safeties!!!

  5. Tim Knight says:

    Didn’t Peppers mainly play close to the LOS as a LB?

    • steveccnv says:

      He played all over the place, and sacrificed his stats for the good of the team. He’ll be that guy, that when he’s off the field it will look like your D is awful and very good when he’s out there. He cleans up a lot of the missed tackles, that would’ve helped us against Pitt.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Michigan had a great defense last year
        And Peppers was probably the #1 reason for that

        Like you said he sacrificed his own numbers for the good of the team

        Michigan and Alabama were pretty much the best 2 defenses in CFB in ’16

    • The Flying Pig says:


      That scouting report GDP posted last week gives you a real good idea of what he did

      I don’t think there is a more versatile player than Peppers this year

      I suspect he would put up bigger int numbers if he used as a safety

      • steveccnv says:

        We’re on the same page with Peppers, which is why I wanted to take him at 22, but don’t think he’ll be there, so I changed it to McDowell.

  6. steveccnv says:

    Peppers is a tracker, with good makeup speed, that takes great angles to the ball carrier. When I watch him make a tackle downfield, he’s the guy running in a different direction than every other defender. He runs to the spot the ball carrier will be when he gets there.

    • steveccnv says:

      When I played DE, this is how I pursued the ball carrier, OV does the same thing, and I mentioned it when we drafted him. When I watch other DL I feel like they’re loafing when they don’t do this. Phillips get a bad rap for this.

  7. sb7mvp says:


  8. stangerx says:

    Pig — you sold me on the Budda in the awesome write.

    Seems you are concentrating on safeties and lbs this year and with Peppers one who could be both. You thought about the name for the hitting and cover guys with skills? Samurais have been done….seems this year it is something like ninjas who hit the weight room.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I’m going to get into some of the pass rushers too

      I just want to get younger/better on D in general

      • stangerx says:

        Can’t argue with that one bit other than in the first round, but that is just in case value is there. Would be real happy if we just get one guy on OL in the first three rounds, a D playmaker, and everyone else looking good on special teams.

  9. Tim Knight says:

    Good write up, Piggy. Baker is definitely a good prospect. Doesn’t have prototype size but he’s a good football player.

  10. wyoming85 says:

  11. wyoming85 says:

    I now feel sorry for the FSU fans

    Joe Reedy‏Verified account @joereedy 60m60 minutes ago
    ESPN announces that Rex Ryan will make his network debut by calling the #FSU Spring Game on Saturday

    • steveccnv says:

      Rexie is a colorful character, so he should do good in the booth. I hated him coaching the Bills, because I knew he had our number, until last year. I don’t want him coaching again. Say what you want about him, but he’s a good coach.

  12. The Flying Pig says:

    steveccnv says:
    April 3, 2017 at 11:35 am (Edit)
    We’re on the same page with Peppers, which is why I wanted to take him at 22, but don’t think he’ll be there, so I changed it to McDowell.



    If you want to invest all of our offseason capital into overtaking the Patriots
    Peppers is the perfect weapon for that

    Is there any other prospect available who will help us defend that short passing game?
    I get his positional ambiguity as a negative
    but he is a good football player and will help us slow down Brady IMO

  13. Mike E. says:

    Sacrificed stats. That may be the funniest statement ever.

  14. Mike E. says:

    Anyway . . . LET’S GO METS!!!

  15. drg says:

    I like Peppers, but he’s never blown me away when I watched him. Michigan played Utah twice the last two years and I don’t remember him standing out even once.

    Baker is a good player for sure. Washington had a great secondary last year.

    Still like Marcus Williams better at safety for us though. I’m a homer.

  16. stangerx says:

    Off topic, but the new head coach of Georgetown basketball is……Patrick Ewing. Like that a lot.

  17. stangerx says:

    Good to see that Gase has a plan in place for Pouncey, but still makes it seem he has a lingering issue.

    “You’ll see him out there in bubble wrap. Mike doesn’t need a lot of practice reps. We’re going to do what we need to do to make sure he’s ready. After that, it’s going to be … I’m going to find out how many snaps we need him to take, if any, and then my goal is to get him out there on Sunday.”

  18. Mike E. says:

    Peppers is a great athlete, no denying that, but it’s hard to say he’s a playmaker when he hasn’t really made plays. Assuming he’s used in a similar role he played in college, where he’s a nickel LB, or maybe a safety who plays up in the box, why would he all of a sudden start making plays, when he didn’t do it at Michigan?

    • Tim Knight says:

      13 tackles for losses and 3 sacks this past season makes me think he played more front 7 than backend. Not sure if he’s a safety but as you said very good athlete.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I think it’s worth while to watch the scouting tape GDP posted last week

      His job in the wolverine defense last season was basically to funnel the play inside

      Teams went away from him

      The statistic you are ignoring is Michigan team defensive statistics

      Michagan was 2 in the country in points against and 2 vs the run

      Before the season starts they basically move Peppers from DB to OLB bc their LB unit was weak

      This is a guy who puts team stats before personal stats

      • Tim Knight says:

        That’s what WOLBs do, funnel the play back inside.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        That was new to him in ’16

        He played CB and safety for them prior to ’16

        I imagine his stats would be better if he played safety

        It’s not just his versatily in defense that’s a plus
        It’s that he can play ST and even take some offensive snaps as well

    • steveccnv says:

      Watch his tape, where ever he is on the field he runs to the spot the ball carrier will intersect with him, instead of to the spot he is now, like so many defenders do, especially when they’re dogging it.

      Basically you have a cleaner on the back end, when others miss the tackle he’s always there to clean up.

  19. wyoming85 says:

  20. Mike E. says:


    It takes more than one player to have a great defense. Just not sure if he’s special enough. Not sure exactly where he fits. Do you think he can all of a sudden learn how to cover at safety? That’s quite a project.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      He has played safety before he just didn’t do it in 16

      I think he will play nickel right out of the gate
      I also think he will play ST and bring a little soemthing to that unit

      I just think he is the ultimate anti-Brady available this draft and he’s a great athlete

      I wouldn’t play him at OLB full time
      But he may even be able to fit that role against a heavy passing team

    • steveccnv says:

      Take Polumalu out of the Pitt D, when he was there and they sucked, he’s a different player, but that’s what he means to a D, and he’s a great cover guy, I see a little Dion SandCastle in him 😛

  21. wyoming85 says:

  22. stangerx says:

    Fasano on why he left the Phins.

    “That’s one of the reasons I left. I just didn’t see the team going in a direction. I knew I was whatever — on the back nine of my career.I was here five years and kind of needed a change of pace.”

    And on why on the team now.

    “I’m excited to be back.The building feels a lot different. They definitely have some fight to them and I think Gase is a great coach, a young coach. I’m excited about everything going on. He’s no nonsense, there’s no distractions, it’s all about football. I think he’s done a great job building the team.”

  23. stangerx says:

    Michael J. Katz @NFLAGENTKATZ
    Happy to announce that @CSETalent client @ZachBrown_55 has agreed to terms with the @Redskins
    I figure he is far more a Snyder guy than a Gase one.

  24. Mike E. says:


    I know he played safety before, but again, ZERO INT’s. How is he a playmaker when he can’t come up with a single INT as a safety? That’s what worries me. I know he’s a versatile player, but is he really exceptional at anything? It doesn’t appear so, and that’s why I don’t like him as our pick

    • Mike E. says:

      If you’re saying he’s the kind of guy that can cover Edelman, maybe he is, I just don’t know if that’s enough a reason to draft him instead of some other guys like Lamp, Reddick, Foster, or one of the DE’s

      • Mike E. says:

        Use Deone Bucannon as a comparison, he had 15 INT’s in college. Sure, he was used differently, but at least he has exceptional production, and because of his athleticism, ARZ uses him as a S, LB, and maximizes his value.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        I would draft Foster in front of him
        I would also draft few of the edge guys in front of him

        not Reddick and/or Lamp
        Both of those guys are changing positions and are from smaller schools
        not sure how you can hold Peppers conversion to safety against him
        and not hold moving Lamp to OG or Reddick to LB against them especially when the competition they faced is not on par with Michigan

        I like both players but I expect a bigger transition from both players than I would with Peppers who can at least contribute on ST as well

        covering Edelman (or Cooks) is a good reason to take a player at 22 IMO

        Being able to slow the Patriots offense down in ’17 and beyond might be a difference maker for us

        they easily tore us apart in ’16

  25. Mike E. says:

    OK, with Reddick, at least he’s big enough to play LB with the big boys, and will definitely be a LB in the NFL, not a jack of all trades, master of none. As far as Lamp is concerned, he’s played OG before, and excelled there. He excelled every spot he played, so no worries there. Doesn’t mean I’m right, but those are the reasons I’d go with Reddick or Lamp before Peppers.

  26. wyoming85 says:

    Maybe Tanny needs to give everyone a “Mike E” Special to get the offence going? 😉

  27. Tim Knight says:

    I get all the pros and cons of Peppers and so do most scouts. You really have to believe you have a role for him and see upside in it.

    I can see him starting off on STs even on some returns, and nickel and dime packages. I don’t see him starting anywhere right away. If you project him playing 25 snaps on defense then a 1st rd pick is valid. If it’s more like 10-12, not so sure about that.

  28. Tim Knight says:

    I think Reddick will have a lesser learning curve as an OLB than Peppers as a pure Safety. Reddick is also a good athlete who will have to learn more coverage, but he’s still a pure front 7 player and he can also provide some pass rush even if just weak side blitzes that we use often. He might be a really good wide 9 OLB.

  29. Randy says:

    I believe Lamp played 3 games at right guard his redshirt freshman year(2013). He did nothing special there, but he didn’t suck up either….as far as I can tell. Almost his whole college career was at LT. Nobody knows if he can play guard in the NFL, for certain. People are just pretty sure he can’t play LT. We have never seen him play guard against top quality interior defenders.

    • Tim Knight says:

      He falls into the Zack Martin projection and even Tunsil moving to guard his rookie year. But most feel he will be a quality NFL O-lineman somewhere.

  30. Randy says:

    People said the same thing about Billy Turner too.He is absolutely not the player Zack Martin was. He’s getting hyped because this is bad interior lineman draft.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Billy Turner was never considered a 1st rd pick. I didn’t say Lamp is as good as Zack Martin, I said same scenario, most NFL teams saw him as a guard in the NFL, not a LT.

      I want front 7 1st round anyway, not a guard or safety. 😉

  31. Randy says:

    I meant people said Turner could just slide in and play guard when…as I said would happen…he couldn’t play tackle in the NFL. He sucked….and he is a small school guy just like Lamp. Lamp is, at best, a second round talent. The OL in this draft are just very ordinary.
    Just my .02. If people wanna go draft him…so be it. I like his attitude and compete factor.

  32. wyoming85 says:

    No parachute!

    Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 3h3 hours ago
    Former Dolphins DE/OLB Dion Jordan cleared waivers today. Now a free agent…

  33. steveccnv says:

    I’m ok if Landry walks in 2018, so I think, if he doesn’t sign a contract extension before the start of the season, it leaves it open for Carroo to steal his role in 2018. I think Landry needs the Fins more than they need him. I’d like to retain him, but I’m not paying him over $10M per year. You might even see Thomas being more of a 3rd down specialist than Landry this year.

  34. wyoming85 says:

  35. pheloniusphish says:

    Steve – I’m not okay if Landry walks. And I think he gets $12-15M a year.

    • steveccnv says:

      I don’t want him to leave, but if you pay him that kind of money it’s not a good sign. Go look at the cheats payroll, they don’t pay squat, that’s why they always seem to have enough depth. Even Brady isn’t being paid much $15M I think, which tells me there’s something stinky there. I’d bet he’s got some kind of wink, wink deal with Kraft. How can he only make that salary, when you’ve got guys that suck making $20M?

      • pheloniusphish says:

        Brady has a wife who pulls down a 1/4 billion dollars plus a year. What he makes is mice nuts…pocket money.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      tend to think Landry has the attitude that sets the tone for this team

      to me its not the same team

      I love the way this team was so scrappy last year

      I think we may even want to consider changing our logo

  36. Tim Knight says:

    Let’s see what kind of season Landry has in 2017 first. He does set a tempo for us with his physical and emotional play. He’s a talented WR despite great size and speed. But his numbers do not match those high figures. I want to see him on the field with Stills, Parker and now Thomas first to see what he is. Also the offense being curtailed around Ajayi and the running game. The passing stats may be more spread out. Sometimes it’s not about total stats but production pct.

    Wins trump everything. I want to see a good 3 phase football team, not reliant on one thing.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I want to see


      (Piggy bites off a piece of raw meat)

    • steveccnv says:

      Yes Tim, production pct, I’ve used something similar in the past. I don’t want the 170 throws and 85 catches like Brandon Marshall gets. Just make the play when you’re called upon on O, it doesn’t matter who gets what numbers, and be productive when it matters. The wins will come.

  37. The Flying Pig says:

    Now that we haven’t signed Brown, doesn’t that mean we have money to spend on Landry in 17
    Let’s do it!

  38. Rhino says:

    Opening Day… renaming the field “Rickey Henderson Field”. I know a lot of you hate baseball, but I love it!

  39. The Flying Pig says:
  40. The Flying Pig says:

    Mets fans

  41. steveccnv says:

    As per usghe the refs have made themselves more important than the game, everyone seems to be in foul trouble.

  42. The Flying Pig says:

  43. Randy,
    Lamp is still DIV I talent who played against DIV I teams like Alabama and held his own. Turner played in the FCS which doesn’t play against DIV I talent. Small school guys but still a big difference.

    • And remember, we had 3 guys in Martin, Thomas and Douglas who couldn’t cut the mustard and they weren’t from small schools.

    • steveccnv says:

      I agree, I think Randy is off base with Lamp, he played very good against Alabama, even though I’m not sold on Alabama’S individual players going head to head. I think Lou has put more effort into scouting Lamp, than Randy has.

  44. not getting the McDowell love at all. 1st rd DT’s need to be dominant and he’s not.

    • steveccnv says:

      He’s versatile and has Suh type of quickness, perfect for a 4-3 DT, he can also play on the outside like Suh does.

  45. Rockphin says:

    sb7mvp says:
    April 3, 2017 at 12:40 pm


  46. Rockphin says:

    Oh well

  47. Mike E. says:

    Tony Romo broadcaster. Not Tony Romo QB

  48. steveccnv says:

    Omar wrote a piece on taking an OG at 22, kind of a rebuttal against Hyde’S article saying you don’t need one in the 1st. A ZBS doesn’t need a 1st round OG, those that typically go in the first are the road graders.

  49. Ken says:

    Say no to Budda. Size matters

  50. wyoming85 says:

    5 teams that have OL as their biggest remaining need!

    That is not good for a good one lasting to the third round!

    • The Flying Pig says:

      only 3 that lost OG as biggest need

      • wyoming85 says:

        That about sums up the top OG’s in the draft!

      • The Flying Pig says:

        You are being generous
        there is only one OG with a 1st round grade – Lamp

        then a few with day 2 grades
        Its just not a great draft for OL

        a lot of the experts said that months ago

        there is probably room to draft one and develop him over time
        but Lamp jumps out as the only day 1 starter IMO
        I don’t even think the 2nd round guys are day 1 starters

        and frankly I think most NFL teams could stand to get a little better at OL
        I bet 80% of the NFL drafts OL at some point

        I think we have to be careful when it comes down to OL this draft

        Lets not draft another BillyTurner/Dallas Thomas out of desperation

  51. wyoming85 says:

  52. wyoming85 says:

    I think Dawkins, Dion and Johnson, Dorian are good prospects.

    Throw in the Elf and it doesn’t look so glum

  53. wyoming85 says:

    It would cost us #22 and #54 to trade up to #14 for Foster?

    I don’t think I like that to much!

  54. wyoming85 says:

    It would cost us #22 and #86 to trade up to #17 if Foster would last that long?

    I would almost be OK with that!

    • steveccnv says:

      We need depth not one great player.

    • D says:

      I am not a big fan of trading away picks, but the closer to a solid team you get the more it makes sense to do it. Having said that, i dont believe this is the year we are ready to start doing that, but…. if it happens ill just assume it was the right call.

  55. D says:

    I dont think those draft calculator things are a good indicator of what it would take, i mean i know it does help put you in a range, but teams make deals all the time that are outside those ranges, sometimes dramatically so. Just about finding the right partner to make the right deal and you just give up what ya have to. Maybe ya throw a player in there in trade too, or maybe you trade a next years pick. Id be open to whatever they feel like is a fair trade, they know better than us what they are trying to accomplish with this years draft, and if they give up a lot then that player must have been worth a lot to them.

    • steveccnv says:

      You said yourself it helps put you in a range, that’s what it’s supposed to do, that’s it. The actual compensation is based on motivation. When you say we gave up too much to get Carroo, and I say we won based on the charts…that’s what the charts are for.

      • D says:

        I wasnt arguing the Caroo trade, i was arguing the thing Wyoming said, where he said we would have to give up aX and Y to move up. Im saying the draft calculator doesnt ffactor in need, so its possible you dont have to give up that much, its also possible you could have to give up a bunch more. No one busts out the calculator when they make the deal, they say, is this guy worth what this guy is asking, and the other side of that is, im going to ask for more than its worth and negotiate down to fair value, or even concede value to get picks. The calculator is not in play when they make the decisions, their own value of the pick to them is.

      • steveccnv says:

        Carroo was just an example. Wyoming was generalizing, because he can’t know the motivation now. Teams do however look at the calculator when making a trade.

  56. D says:

    Thats very Delmas, he likes to run his mouth lol. I hate it got him in trouble but that would be like telling a bird to not fly off when a cat is creeping nearby.

  57. D says:

    I have heard Lamp is in consideration by some teams as an OT, so its possible he would be selected. Not to mention you might have a guy like we did who is ready to move out to OT if/when you get an OG to replace, so its possible other teams are in, or could be in the same spot as us.

  58. sb7mvp says:

    Trade out of the first this year.

    • steveccnv says:

      I’m OK with that too, especially since we don’t have our regular 3rd, and need depth more than a stud. I’d like to get a 2nd, 3rd and maybe something else for our 1st.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      A team like the Browns has a ton of picks and mihght like to move up

  59. Randy says:

    What??? I’m no longer considered an OL guru around here? Well for fuck’s sake. How will I go on!?
    And for what it’s worth, I scout plenty….and my track record in evaluating OL is pretty good…well, it’s okay…or at least I get a couple right once in a blue moon! Lol
    It’s not that I dislike Lamp. I just think there’s better value at other positions at #22. I think people are going waaay overboard with how he did against Alabama…at tackle not guard…in somehow using that to inflate his value. And, saying he’s Division 1 talent playing at a small school is just words. It means nothing. The FACT is that he did play at a small school AND he didn’t play against Div 1 talent at guard on a consistent basis. We do not know how he would perform against 310 pound interior linemen instead of 250-70 pound DEs because he didn’t do it from the guard position. Completely different ballgame. Completely different set of tools required. Completely different level of physicality playing inside in the NFL.
    Will he end up being a good NFL guard? I have no idea…and neither does anybody else. It’s pure speculation. I’m just saying I’d go another route in round 1. 3 months ago it was all about Pocic, and I said he was a second rounder at best. Where’s he being slotted now by the “experts”? Exactly. This shit changes constantly around draft time. I’ll stick with what I see and not buy into the hype.

    • steveccnv says:

      I think he’s a first round talent, but I don’t want to take him at 22. You mentioned the OL quality isn’t very good this year and he’s part that reason, I don’t agree he’s part of that.

    • D says:

      Steve i dont think your getting what im saying, they know the value of the pick and they know what value they put on sitting put and taking the pick vs trading it away, they dont bust out a calculator and go, well ya know we really want this guy but the calculator says……

      No they go, we need this guy, there wont be another guy on the board at this position that fits us as well, make the trade, but we can only off this much because other wise it will fuck us for the rest of the draft. The reverse of that is, another team makes us an offer, and we look at it by what we are losing out on if we do it, compared to how it opens up other rounds or getting a couple players over one.

      Again, its not a “the calculator says this” decision, its a real world, supply and demand scenario, where the one having the item bases their price on what demand there is for it.

      • steveccnv says:

        The calculator is used, but it’s just to put things into perspective, they don’t know off hand what every pick is worth. I understand what you’re saying.

  60. BoulderPhinfan says:

    we need more picks. I don’t think we want to trade away our picks for one player.

    • steveccnv says:

      Agreed, but we’re talking about trading down.

    • D says:

      I think in general this is the mentality they have, i dont think you have to worry, and if they do trade up its probably for a guy who will make a difference, this year, so it might bother you at first, but wouldnt you be ok with losing a pick or two if you knew ya got the guy who could turn one of the problem units around? Id be ok with it, but yeah at first id probably judge the pick badly.

      • BoulderPhinfan says:

        yea probably. At 22 we should get a decent defensive player in this draft. Trading away our 2nd or 3rd to move up a few spots is dumb IMO. Even for a player like foster. I can see us trading picks to get back into 4th round but I hope we don’t move up in the first.

  61. D says:

    D says:
    April 4, 2017 at 12:57 pm

    Steve i dont think your getting what im saying, they know the value of the pick and they know what value they put on sitting put and taking the pick vs trading it away, they dont bust out a calculator and go, well ya know we really want this guy but the calculator says……

    No they go, we need this guy, there wont be another guy on the board at this position that fits us as well, make the trade, but we can only off this much because other wise it will fuck us for the rest of the draft. The reverse of that is, another team makes us an offer, and we look at it by what we are losing out on if we do it, compared to how it opens up other rounds or getting a couple players over one.

    Again, its not a “the calculator says this” decision, its a real world, supply and demand scenario, where the one having the item bases their price on what demand there is for it.

  62. D says:

    I think another thing you guys have to keep in mind, we are skeptics, or possible overly optimistic in some peoples views, but these guy know A LOT more about these players than we ever will, they have TEAMS of people who devote their entire careers to evaluating players, so no matter what faith you have in them, you should have more than you have with any one of us here. If they make a trade its because they are informed enough to feel pretty confidant that its the right one. We as fans second guess it all the time, and sometimes we have been right, but for fucks sake, how can we believe we know better than them when the day is done? Its just not logical to believe that.

    • BoulderPhinfan says:

      You’re right we don’t know any better. But I keep going back to Deon FF. I bet not everyone in dolphins org wanted to make that move. But I bet Ireland overrode their opinion. You can have a team of people looking at prospects but 1 person makes the ultimate decision so everyone goes along with it.

  63. Randy says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they traded down. The problem is that this draft isn’t stacked with great talent in round 1. The issue will be finding a team willing to make it worth our while to trade back because I just don’t see anybody in this draft who will be available at #22 worth giving up multiple picks for. But, all it takes is one team who falls in love with a guy. The real value in this draft is in rounds 2 and 3.

  64. The Flying Pig says:

    I think trading down early will be fine
    I don’t think the falloff in talent between 22-50 is great
    and the positions we are looking for: OG, LB, DL and DB are probably decent in the 2nd and 3rd round

    I think we might be able to use the 3rd and the 3 5th rounders to trade up from the 3rd or into the 4th round too – and to me that makes sense

    we have 7 picks
    and really 5 good picks is enough

    that 3rd rounder is one of the last picks in the 3rd round
    it makes sense to move up from there

    albeit I think there is talent in the 4th round

    if we trade down from 22
    I would not be surprised for a trade up later
    we don’t need a ton of picks
    we need to hit on out picks

    I don’t know how many rookies we had on the final 53 last year
    but I’m guessing it was 7 or less

  65. D says:

    Trade back is not any more palatable this year than trade up. If you use the draft calculator you would have to assume even trading out of the first into the early second (ie the Browns scenario) wouldn’t net us much in return, maybe a mid to early third. You would have to have them want to give up more than the pick value to get anything that really would be better than that, again, this is what im saying, Brown’s with all those picks are in a surplus situation with picks, so its possible we could demand that for them to get out first, but you have to be outside the straight value evaluation to believe it will work.

    We would be best staying put and drafting at 22, unless we get a really good value to move up (ie something significantly better than the calculator suggests) or really good value to give up our pick (same deal in reverse). We might also find ourselves in a pick and player scenario, or a pick and a next year pick, but again, still holds if we are giving something up, this year its about maximizing value so we get at least a couple more holes filled, and then next year we are in a better position to target specific guys with trade ups.

  66. D says:

    BoulderPhinfan says:
    April 4, 2017 at 1:07 pm

    You’re right we don’t know any better. But I keep going back to Deon FF. I bet not everyone in dolphins org wanted to make that move. But I bet Ireland overrode their opinion. You can have a team of people looking at prospects but 1 person makes the ultimate decision so everyone goes along with it.
    Its the failures of our past that make it hard for us to trust them getting things right, hell im still pretty damn skeptical myself, but i just keep telling myself, its their job to do this and do it well, and last year gave me just enough of a taste of success to grant a reprieve from early judgement.

  67. Randy says:

    A small school guard I like in the late second…maybe early third is Taylor Moton. I think he’s probably, naturally, a better fit in a power running scheme, but he has enough athleticism to play in a ZBS. Smart, big, consistent guy who plays every snap, and he even has some experience playing RT.

  68. wyoming85 says:

    I don’t know?
    But unless someone slides “down” to #22. What is supposed to be there now is kind of “blah” to me?

    Not one little bit of excitement!

    Even with DJFF I was thrilled until they said Deon instead of Fisher!


  69. Randy says:

    That’s true. You never know. Cleveland could do just about anything with all those picks.

  70. D says:

    So what are you guys expecting in a trade back scenario. Again, i dont really believe in the calculator as the rule, but this is what it says. Trading back from 22 to the Browns would give us a early third rounder in value. Would you trade all the way out of the first for a 3rd in return? Also considering the Browns 3rd is significantly higher value that the 78th pick we would be due, that would mean they would have to package a couple of picks, like their 4th, and a couple of their 5ths. So again, out of the first, and in return we get a 4th and couple of 5ths or maybe ever a 4th and a next years 4th.

  71. D says:

    Randy i like him ok. Physically he reminds me a lot of Tunsil, minus the elite feet. They physically look a lot alit too, i met Moton at Senior Bowl. I wasnt impressed with his personality, but again, those guys are like caged animals at that even having to meet and gett so many people, and expected to talk and sign all that shit, so ill give him a pass for it. Still as a player he seems pretty solid, probably at least worth a look in third, there are other OG’s id like better than him in the second though.

  72. Randy says:

    I think he’s pretty similar to Pocic(if seen as a guard), Dawkins or Feeney as far as value. As I’ve said before, I don’t like any of these guards a lot. I wouldn’t take him at the top of the second round, but I might at the end. His value point is probably more top of the third though.

  73. Tim Knight says:

    The Browns can probably get a QB like Mitch Trubisky with their #12 pick after using their #1 on DE Myles Garrett.

  74. Tim Knight says:

    Boulder, I just read something the other day that recapped who everyone in the org wanted in the 1st rd in the 2013 Draft. Most including Ross liked Tavon Austin and Ireland and Philbin both liked Jordan. If I can find the article I’ll post it.

    • D says:

      Woulda been a miss with either of those guys. I still dont know how Ansah wasnt the top on their list, they were said to really like him after Senior Bowl, and then there were the Lane Johnson rumors too.

  75. Mike E. says:

    Have to keep in mind that Gase brought back Stills in this offense, and he expects his QB to be upright. We can say this guy isn’t worth this or that, but when Lamp is there at #22, and if that’s the guy we like best, we’re going to take him. I don’t think we’re done with this OL, and honestly, I think we all better hope we’re not!

  76. Randy says:

    Lots of people viewed Jordan as a top 3-5 pick that year. It wasn’t a “crazy” pick by Ireland given how most valued Jordan. It just didn’t pan out. Ireland is a Parcellian. He always valued DE very highly.

    • D says:

      I remember being pretty shocked by the Jordan pick, i didnt have Jordan as high as Ansah as a pass rusher. I was hoping Ansah when they announced the trade, but somewhat expecting Johnson.

    • D says:

      Jordan was a top pick though, and the trade value was good. Unfortunately the scouting wasnt, but there are some things you will miss in scouting. Odd that the thing they missed on was what Ireland prided himself on, rooting out character concerns.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Agreed. It’s real easy to bash the pick now and the trade was not crazy. Jordan was the fuck up nobody else.

  77. Tim Knight says:

    I’m more of the opinion that we need impact talent, not depth. We have a good amount of depth but need some more impact at a few positions.

    • Mike E. says:

      Any DE we take won’t be starting, but a LB or OG would be

      • D says:

        I think we could see a few different guys rotating in year 1. I doubt they start the season opener, but i could even see a few of them becoming the more primary DE in the rotation before years end. Just would really depend on their progress, a few of them are surly capable of that though.

      • Tim Knight says:

        I’d prefer a guy who is ready to play his way into the rotation. I don’t care who starts on the DL, they rotate anyway. I’d prefer a better player than say Fede and some of the other guys we have at the bottom of the depth chart. Let them remain last resorts and upgrade the rotation.

  78. D says:

    I just cant see any scenario where a guy we have to have pretty high on our board wont be there are 22, so i think outside of just getting a really good offer, we do anything but stay put and make a selection.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Agreed. I do think we could trade up into the 2nd and/or 3rd though. I have said before I would not be surprised if come away with only 4-5 picks but guys we feel real good about.

    • Mike E. says:

      Not sure what you just said. Are you saying we’re definitely trading either up or back?

  79. Randy says:

    I won’t be surprised at all if Larsen starts the year at guard for us. He may well not end the year starting, but he could easily begin the year as a starter. I’d prefer better talent there, but Larsen is a veteran, a proven commodity, and a guy I’m guessing Gase knows and feels comfortable with since they went out and signed him. Consistency and not screwing up is sometimes more valuable than a ton of talent but very inconsistent or the coach not being able to trust you.

    • D says:

      Yeah i expect Larsen to start unless whatever guy they draft just really shows up day 1 and knocks it out of the park. There is 0 way they can be prepared for the speed of the game change, so most rookies need some adjustment time. If you have a good option, its better than they not learn on the field until they have at least progressed enough to show it wouldn’t be a complete thrown to the wolves situation. Hell, Tunsil who was to me one of the most natural looking prospects i have seen in a very long while on the OL, took some beatings early, and they even said at one time they were not 100% he would be starting. If we didnt have the colossal fuck up twins in Turner and Thomas, i doubt he would have either.

  80. D says:

    I think you take Moton over maybe some of the other pure OG’s or hybrid OC/OG’s if you are looking at possibility of having them move out to RT if James doesnt re-sign and they elect not to do the 5th year on him. Pocic, Elflien if you want Pouncey health backup insurance.

  81. D says:

    Mike E. says:
    April 4, 2017 at 2:11 pm

    Not sure what you just said. Are you saying we’re definitely trading either up or back?
    I was saying we probably stay put and draft at our position, unless we just get a really good offer, and i mean that in either direction. I think they would take a trade up if the value was there, but i also feel they know they dont have to and they will still get someone they really like. I was more referring to trade back scenarios though, as in they wont trade back unless they know what they are getting is an incredibly good deal.

  82. Tim Knight says:

    If we came away with this in the draft:
    DL – is part of the rotation
    LB – gets some snaps and a projected future starter
    CB – plenty of nickel/dime snaps
    OG – projected starter

    I’d be fine with it.

  83. Tim Knight says:

    We added some new starters or significant role players in FA, we’re getting some key guys back and have quite a few young players looking to take the next step. I don’t see this team as having a big void of talent. I see it as needing upgraded talent in some areas, like we’ve all talked about.

    I think we’re already better now than we were last year this time and the schedule doesn’t scare me. Year to year good teams have an off year (see Carolina) and sub par teams make a big jump (see Atlanta). Two perfect examples of total opposite seasons within 2 years.

    I think we can be this year’s ATL. Hopefully the same situation and Gase says give Ajayi the fucking ball. LOL

    • Mike E. says:

      Will Drake be our version of Tevin Coleman?

      • Tim Knight says:

        I hope his role on offense increases quite a bit. I know that’s the plan, Gase has said as much. It’s up to Drake to improve his overall game. The playmaking ability is there, we’ve seen it.

  84. D says:

    I think Drakes role goes us a lot if he just starts to “get it”. Gase in one interview recently basically said Drake kinda frustrated him by doing some rookie type stuff. He admitted he did some really great stuff but then would turn up a little boneheaded on a few plays. IMO this says nothing more than Drake was what he was, a rookie, and that Gase wants to make sure he cleans up his play a little before committing more to him. I think that means we can expect him to, at the very least, have more time on the field. I think that that, along with the lowest tender designation of Williams means that those times where Williams got his snaps, probably start going to Drake instead, with Williams taking a more specialized, but limited role.

  85. D says:

    The guy im worried about right now is GrANT man. He was somewhat limited level of use , though i do think Gase was showing through the latter part he wants to try him out in a more offensively expanded role, but he just couldnt stop getting in his own way. The kid’s passion and enthusiasm is contagious and you want to pull for him, but if he hasn’t cleaned some of that up, the role he played could easily be filled by someone else. I half way think he might have been a potential Stills replacement, with Caroo being a Landry replacement, meaning “as in case of we cant keep them” type of replacement. Neither of those picks really hit last year, so i think both of them are going to get the, put your best foot forward this year speech. Grant, possibly with a stronger push to make it happen before 53 cut down.

  86. D says:

    Greg Auman


    Lakewood and UCF cornerback Shaquill Griffin had his first visit today with Dolphins …
    I think me and a few others here have talked about this guy as a potential middle rounder at CB. I think there is potential there, he may even be a day 2 kinda guy. Id take him for sure in the 5th, possibly with a 3rd, but i think there will be other guys i like better still there in the 3rd.

  87. Tim Knight says:

    D, I think it’s too early to worry about Grant just yet. He was a 6th rd super small speedster and project who made some impact. A PR for a TD and another one called back due to penalty. Struggled handling some punts and was very limited on offense. Same as Drake, mostly STs and a taste of offense. I see both being given an opportunity to do more on offense while still playing on STs in their 2nd seasons. We’ll see how they respond.

    One thing for sure is we have a lot of explosive players on offense. More than I can even remember. LOL

  88. steveccnv says:

    Game I want to see Thomas tear it up, then game 2 Parker, 3 Ajayi, 4 Landry and Grant, 5 Carroo and Drake…point being I want a different star every week, so when we face NE they won’t have a clue who to take away.

    • Tim Knight says:

      I think that’s the plan and what Gase wants. He’s an offensive guy, that’s the last place he wants to see his team fail. Overwhelm teams with multiple playmakers.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Ajayi, Landry, Stills, Parker, Thomas, Drake, Williams, Carroo, Grant and maybe someone else. We’ve seen all of them get it done at different levels. Now make sure you feel good about the OL going in.

  89. D says:

    This is more the song and dance routine i would expect from Piggy

  90. Mike E. says:

    I’m not worried about Grant at all, much more worried about LC3. lol

    • Tim Knight says:

      Only worry when he has to play. 🙂

    • D says:

      I get what your saying, that Caroo needs to work out more, but i really like Grant. I guess it more a personal hope that he sticks than it is me feeling a huge loss if he doesn’t make it.

  91. Mike E. says:

    LOL Tim – I think I’m even more worried that he may never have to, but not in a good way for us.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Ajayi, Landry, Thomas, Stills and Parker should be our main offensive weapons with Drake/Williams, Carroo and Grant etc. being role players and next man up. Not all teams have 5 go-to-guys. I think fans and media underrate what we have at the skill positions.

      All 5 could be on the field at any time. Okay cover it? LBs and S’s are gonna have a tough time. Too much speed and ability.

      If we block it we’ll score at will. Yes… even with Tannehill. 😉

  92. D says:

    Man, there are two songs that will just wreck your day if you listen to them. That Johnny Cash remake of Hurt, and Tears in Heaven…. painful. Should not have clicked that link of most emotion provoking songs of all time.

  93. wyoming85 says:

  94. steveccnv says:

    I see bust written all over Budda Baker.

    He tackles ok, but doesn’t track real well, kind of lays back and waits for the play to come to him, unless he gets an early read, which are the plays you see in his highlight reel. He’ll make the big play, but when he’s not making it he’s a liability.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      You’ll never see me say something so negative in my Wedge reports

      but I do think there is an argument to be made that Baker amounts to a relatively average safety. I don’t see him a bust but I can see him struggling in the NFL or being relatively average

      conversely I think he has a ton of talent and is a really smart football player. I tend to favor smart football players like Baker.

  95. Randy says:

    I tend to agree. I think Baker is almost a niche safety, and I’m not sure he’ll even be able to hold up physically in the NFL.

  96. Tim Knight says:

    Steve, you will see Fasano on the field and one less WR at times or no Thomas. Just saying! But those 5 will be a lot to handle for opposing teams. 🙂

  97. Randy says:

    I don’t know a ton about Dante Barnett. I have read some stuff about him…mostly that he’s a good leader and knows how to get people in the right spots, from memory. I have never seen him play that I recall. I’ve always valued having a really good player at deep safety…or whatever deep safety is in the NFL nowadays. Do you think he is a potential top flight safety or more of a solid pro sort of guy?

    • I’ll answer you and Mike. I don’t look at a lot of mocks. I only look at rankings and they’ve got him going undrafted. I don’t believe that’s what will happen because he’s one of the better safety prospects out there.

      He can play deep or in the box. Versatile. Very good in run support, a playmaker, and very good at center field. So, he’s got that versatility the team likes in safeties.

      Personally, and it’s only my opinion, when I look at the others guys who are projected to go higher than him, like Evans and Jones, I just don’t get it because he’s one of those guys who is all over the field. If there’s a guy I can think of he reminds me of it’s Kenny Vaccaro.

      Do I think he’ll get drafted? Yes, and I think it’s a lot higher than what most have him projected at.

  98. Mike E. says:


    Do you think Barnett gets drafted?

  99. Randy says:

    Then he could be a tremendous value pick…even in, say, the 4th or 5th. Can he play STs?

  100. Randy says:

    Only you would call that “5 go-to guys”. I love it. Lol

  101. The Flying Pig says:


    while your were watching Barnett
    did you happen to watch Elijah Lee….any thoughts on him ?

  102. Mike E. says:

    Not that this means a lot, but Lamp is rated a little higher on than Zack Martin was. Lamp is rated at 6.2, Martin was a 5.97, but they were done by different people. Nolan Nawrocki did the ratings in ’14, Zierlein did them this year

  103. Tim Knight says:

    When is the last time this team had 5 skill players that can be on the field at the same time that are all “playmakers”?

    Tough crowd around here. Nobody is ever satisfied. LOL

  104. wyoming85 says:

    Andrew Groover‏ @APGroover 26m26 minutes ago
    LSU safety Jamal Adams runs a 4.38 40 at LSU pro day, per @MikeMayock Ran a 4.56 at Combine.

  105. wyoming85 says:

    RosterWatch‏ @RosterWatch 37m37 minutes ago
    Duke Riley, back to back 4.6’s #LSU Pro Day

  106. wyoming85 says:

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Well-regarded guard
      Well regarded guard
      Well regarded Guam

      Nope I couldn’t say it three times fast

  107. Tim Knight says:

    Armando Salguero‏Verified account @ArmandoSalguero 13m13 minutes ago
    Before he became Broncos HC, Vance Joseph told me Dolphins D needed to get bigger, faster. Too many non-prototype bodies on D, incl. DEs.

    • stangerx says:

      I’d like my whole D made up for 300lb guys who can run a sub 4.5 forty with moves and ability to cover. Our Dbs ain’t small. Was he talking LB? And what DE? We kept two of them. Guessing Joseph was talking about something and Mando something else.

      • Tim Knight says:

        DEs are all on the smaller side, didn’t have enough guys like Hayes who can produce. We brought in Williams and Jones last year and they didn’t pan out. LB could use some bigger thumpers too, but guys who can also run and cover ground.

        We were also playing undersized DTs at times in Warmsley and Chris Jones.

      • stangerx says:

        Right with you on that Tim. Obviously the D needs an influx of youth and athletes. More than anything was laughing at bigger and faster…..what coach doesn’t want that? Problem is how to make it happen.

  108. Tim Knight says:

    Armando Salguero‏Verified account @ArmandoSalguero 25m25 minutes ago
    Dolphins have eye on OU DT Charles Walker. Like him as a second day possibility. (No idea yet where their other eye is looking).

  109. steveccnv says:

    Another reason to draft Lamp, would be insurance in 2018, if James isn’t resigned.

  110. Tim Knight says:

    Steve, I’m gonna start calling you Critic Steve soon. LOL

  111. stangerx says:

    Ex-dolphin photo shot…..this one from Louis Delmas.

    “After Miami-Dade cops pulled over Madrigal for going 76 mph in a 40-mph zone, Delmas couldn’t help but run his mouth at officers — all while his buddy was busy failing a field sobriety test.”

    His buddy blew twice the legal limit while Delmas got arrested for resisting arrest. Seems Delmas is still in the area and a FA to boot though. He’s only 29 and wasn’t driving.

  112. Mike E. says:


    Lugo has elbow ligament damage, will need surgery. 😦

  113. Tim Knight says:

    Stanger, that’s why guys like McDowell or Charlton make sense. They are big DL who can probably move around on the DL. Also need a stout DT at the least to add to the rotation. He doesn’t have to be a playmaker, but a guy who can hold his own inside.

    • stangerx says:

      Don’t know to explain other than would love to have both bigger and faster. And completely with you on getting a 3rd DT in there. Also understand the need for DE of the future, but my thought is it will be a Wake-type (the undersized edge guy). Or maybe they want to go away from speed rusher down the road.

  114. D says:

    Isaac Asiata is one of my favorite OG’s this year. He isnt really a hybrid player but the dude is pure nastiness on the field. He will make Incognito look like momma’s good little boy.

  115. Tim Knight says:

    James Walker‏Verified account @JamesWalkerNFL 11m11 minutes ago
    Source: The #Dolphins have agreed to terms w/QB David Fales. Fales was a former draft pick of the #Bears and spent 2015 w/MIA HC Adam Gase.

    • D says:

      I remember scouting him the year he came out of SJSU. He is kinda like Tanny in the fact he completes a high percentage of his throws, and is pretty safe with the ball.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Doesn’t have great size at 6-1 212 but might be a guy Gase likes how he works, can be a camp arm and showcase himself. Also competes with Doughty.

  116. D says:

    steveccnv says:
    April 5, 2017 at 1:18 pm

    Another reason to draft Lamp, would be insurance in 2018, if James isn’t resigned.
    I wouldnt like Lamp at RT, he is more pure OG to me. Moton, who Randy was talking about yesterday, is more my guy if we are looking for a RT starter that could play OG in the interm. Pocic could handle RT but i didnt think he looked very good at LT last year when LSU kicked him out there due to their LT getting injured. Dorian Johnson as well, but again, RT, he doesnt have the feet for LT. Gerg Pyke of Georgia as a late round guy who might develop and has that versatility too.

  117. D says:

    Tim im all for OL with a mean streak, as long as they can reign it in, and keep it to the playing field. Hell id eat a penalty or two as well just to let them let that demon out from time to time.

  118. D says:

    Tim Knight says:
    April 5, 2017 at 2:13 pm

    Stanger, that’s why guys like McDowell or Charlton make sense. They are big DL who can probably move around on the DL. Also need a stout DT at the least to add to the rotation. He doesn’t have to be a playmaker, but a guy who can hold his own inside.
    Thats why i have been arguing for Charlton, to me its the writing on the wall, they are looking to add bigger guys, and this whole quick twitch speed rush specialist isn’t what they are placing highest on their priorities, sure they would take both rolled up in one, but if they can get to the QB, doesnt matter if its power moves or speed, they just have to be effective.

    McDowell is a guy i also have said is a possibility at 22, and a few other guys like Brantley, Allen (who suprisingly might have a chance of being there…dunno why), Wormley, Kpassagnon, Solomon Thomas, Demarcus Walker all kinda fill that larger DE with ability to slide in at DT for certain packages. Those are all day 1 or 2 guys, and you also have Keionta Davis who i like a good bit, as another bigger DE, who still rushes the passer really well.

    • D says:

      Ok so i wasnt saying all those guys were in play for 22 lol, just Allen, the rest of that read a little wrong i think, the rest of those guys in that first set were day 2 guys.

  119. D says:

    Tim Knight says:
    April 5, 2017 at 3:01 pm

    Doesn’t have great size at 6-1 212 but might be a guy Gase likes how he works, can be a camp arm and showcase himself. Also competes with Doughty.
    I really want Doughty to make it, i think he has a really good arm and overall has all the skills oyu need to have a starter in the NFL. Im not saying he supplants Tanny, just wanted to make that clear before the Tanny Hens got their feathers ruffled, im just saying he could be a guy we might develop and have a chance to trade to a QB needy team in the future, and in the meantime we would have a more capable backup to Tanny.

    Fales does though, have the type of ball control and “dont lose the game for us” ability that could get you through a rough spot with your starter out. I just dont see any sort of big play ability or starter potential.

  120. D says:

    When i just went back and watched Asiata on a few game films, i was seeing Tevi, their LT show some really goof footwork and nastiness too. I went back and looked at some of the scouting on him and looks like he was 2nd year starter on OL, and was a DT previously which probably explains some of the way he plays. His technique is not great, but he knocks the crap out of people and he moves really well. Definitely a late round or priority UDFA consideration, decent amount of development and that guy could be a really good RT and maybe even backup LT.

    • D says:

      I thought i remembered Bolles playing LT, and he did, but that was certainly Tevi starting there that game player number 52. Either way i doubt he is a LT at the next level unless he really improves his technique, but i could see him being a pretty good RT.

  121. The Flying Pig says:

    Mike E. says:
    April 5, 2017 at 2:06 pm (Edit)
    Lugo has elbow ligament damage, will need surgery.



    This post leads me to believe that you are under the impression that only Tim cares about elbow damage

    As an owner of more than one elbow, I think its important to state – that many on this blog are concerned about elbows

    I do not know if Tim takes greater care of his elbows but mine are important to me. So in the future when elbows are involved maybe you should express it to all of us.

    Also I think its weird to begin your sentences with the word “Lugo”. What does Lugo even mean?


    a pig with elbows


    • D says:

      Lugo is a shared relative of theirs, thats why he felt only Tim would be concerned with the state of their elbow. Lugo is Mike’s Uncle thrice removed, on his mothers side, and Tim’s great Aunt twice removed on his fathers side. Sex changes make family trees really wierd sometimes.

      Also if you guys didnt spot it was a cleverly disguised poke at the elderly nature of Mike E, go back and read it again and see if you too can see it!

    • D says:

      I do agree though, elbow lives matter! Especially if you have four of them and they bend backwards.

  122. Tim Knight says:

    Stanger, we can add a bigger DE/DL early and more of an edge rusher later to develop as well. He doesn’t have to play right away.

    • D says:

      Yeah id rather have a combination of Charlton and Hendrickson/Lawson (whom i think is going to be drafted significantly lower than people expect)

      • Tim Knight says:

        It’s a good year to add some young DL due to our DL room. A lot of experience and pedigree for these young bucks to learn from – how to work and be a pro, get some tricks of the trade etc.

        So maybe we go big DE/DL 1st and edge rusher 5th rd. I also see us adding a pure DT.

      • D says:

        I think though if you had a shot at Barnett, a combination of Barnett and Wise Jr. or Cox Jr. would be pretty good too.

        I also forgot to include Daeshon Hall as in that first list to pair with Charlton, that might be my favorite for us to pair together of any of them.

    • stangerx says:

      For sure we could Tim. Would not be surprised at all if we took two raw freak speed rushers in the 5th to develop. And I am right with you on DT in the first three. Just don’t see the great need for a big DE unless it is a BPA future thing.

      • D says:

        You also have some guys like Smoot and Phillips who are kinda tweeners but probably make really good speed rush prospects.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Let’s forget about order for now, I would not be surprised if we added a bigger DE, DT and more of a speed rush edge guy in this draft.

      • stangerx says:

        Once you take out where picked……I could not agree more. Add in G and a LB and you have my top five.

  123. Tim Knight says:

    5 positions we most likely address in this draft are DE, DT, LB, CB and OG.

  124. Tim Knight says:

    I really don’t get statements like this and I’ve heard it so many times.

    Omar Kelly‏Verified account @OmarKelly 28m28 minutes ago
    Omar Kelly Retweeted Fręnch Bäguette
    Don’t trade up for the sake of trading up. What do you want? Two players I want might slide. I’m patient & want more resources

    Don’t trade up for the sake of trading up? Why would that ever be the case? It will always be about who you want because you’re very high on the prospect and not all trade ups are Dion Jordan. LOL

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Tim you underestimate the value of picking at a higher place than #22
      if you pick at 20 for instance – Ross buys Tannebaum an ice cream cone
      #17 is good for a box of chocolate bars
      #12 gets Tannebaum a choo choo track set
      and #2 is Ross’ famous foot rub

      so its not just the player

  125. steveccnv says:

    Tim, don’t forget that McDowell can also play DE, so taking him at 22 might allow us to wait until the 5th to take a true DE.

  126. steveccnv says:

    Lol, that David Fales will compete with Dolphins’ Brandon Doughty in camp. For what the right to be on the practice squad?

  127. Rockphin says:


    a pig with elbows

    Holy crap who’s elbows were they before you got them? That is seriously disgusting Piggy! WTF!? What possessed you to want somebody else’s elbows!!!?

    We all know you didn’t grow them. Pigs don’t have elbows.

  128. D says:

    Tim, if you are bothered by what ya get for trading up to 2, you really dont want to know about trading up to number 1…..might make you never look at Ross the same.

  129. wyoming85 says:

  130. Randy says:

    Who in this draft is worth trading way up in the draft? Maybe Garret but that’s about it. I would not be a fan of that. Trying to get in the top 15….maybe…but it would have to be a good trade. This doesn’t seem like the sorta draft you move up in. It’s the kind you want multiple 2s and 3s, to me.

  131. The top 3 DE’s in this draft are:
    1. Garrett
    2. Barnett
    3. Smoot

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