The Dolphins have a decision looming, do they re-sign their own former 2014 1st RD pick (#19), or do they try and replace him. It’s not as easy as a decision as some might think. While James is not an elite RT, especially in the sense of the “old” prototype of a right tackle, who was usually not a very good pass blocker, but usually a road grader on the right end of the line. In fact, James is the polar opposite of that, he’s a very good pass blocker, but his run blocking skills after 5 seasons are still somewhat lacking.
The Miami Dolphins offensive line has been in flux for too long. Last season we signed former pro bowl OG Josh Sitton after the Bears declined to re-sign him, and Sitton didn’t make it past game 1 before being placed on season ending IR. Center Dan Kilgore, who the Dolphins traded a 7th RD pick for with the Niners didn’t make it that much further as he was placed IR after game 4. The Dolphins had already decided to give journeyman Jesse Davis a shot at the RG spot, and Davis started and finished all 16 games, but his play was just marginal, average or less than average.
At LG, good ole Ted Larsen started 13 games but played in 15 for the Dolphins as the Dolphins really had little depth left with both Sitton and Kilgore both out for the season before the first quarter of the season was finished. It’s really come down to a numbers game, and the numbers are not in our favor. We basically have 1 starter at the moment, Laremy Tunsil, if we decide to move on from James. I know this season is going to be a bumpy one, but if we have to try and bring in 4 new starters on the OL, that’s quite an undertaking. It’s possible we keep Kilgore and Larsen, their salaries are palatable (even if their play isn’t always). Between the 2 players they will come out to about $5M in salary. Even if both are kept for depth only, I think that’s doable.
The other part of the equation is that James has played the entire season and then the following year, injuries limited him to playing half the season or less twice. In ’14 James started all 16 games. In ’15 he played and started only 7. In ’16 James started all 16 games, in ’17 James was limited to starting only 8. Last season James started and played in 15 games. You know what’s coming in ’19, right? I actually don’t believe in those kind of things. I think James will be fine this season. Where he will play is another story.
If I were the GM, I’d keep the steady pass blocking RT because he’s young He’ll be 27 when the season starts, and because he is a good pass blocker, a very good one. His consistency could be a little better, but considering the fact that he had a journeyman next to him all last season, and Davis definitely had his struggles, I think James is a keeper. He will probably get somewhere between $8-12M per year, but I think it’s worth it. He’s going to get that for sure from another team, and I loathe to let our own 1st RD pick leave. I’d re-sign him. Your thoughts?
Finsmob Unleashed 
For Star Wars fans, and Star is Born fans, Funny!
All the rage, I turned the page . . .
M13, I agree with what you said about DE Gary. I like Chase Winovich (sp?) in the 2nd. He is one of those smart nonstop motor guys. I watched 3 Michigan games last year and I heard Winovich’s name called at least twice as much as Gary’s in every game. Winovich and Devin Bush were names I always heard when their D was on the field.
Sweat really is a physical specimen. 6’6 260, 4.41, 21 reps with with 35 3/4″ arms, plus the 125″ broad jump and the 7.0 in the cone drill. That’s something. Not saying that all translates to a great football player, but if he has it between the ears, and he has it in his chest, that’s a monster player.
Phish, I don’t like Rosen at all. Comes across as smug and thinks he is all that. I look at him like a whimpier much less talented Matt Ryan.
YOUR TEAM
MIAMI DOLPHINS
YOUR PICKS
1: R1P22 LB DEVIN WHITE LSU
2: R2P16 C GARRETT BRADBURY NC STATE
3: R3P14 G CONNOR MCGOVERN PENN STATE
4: R3P21 EDGE BEN BANOGU TCU
5: R3P38 EDGE JOE JACKSON MIAMI
6: R4P11 QB RYAN FINLEY NC STATE
7: R4P14 WR MILES BOYKIN NOTRE DAME
8: R5P13 DL TERRY BECKNER JR MISSOURI
9: R6P15 LB JOE GILES-HARRIS DUKE
10: R7P20 LB CAMERON SMITH USC
White is a great player
But I don’t think LB is a good idea in the 1st
Sitting here trying to get dismissed from jury selection. It’s ridiculous IMO that I am still here. I recognized 7 names on the docket who are on bond with me and another 2 who we arrested and put back in jail. There are probably several more client’s of mine on the docket that I don’t recognize right off the bat. SMH
Guess I shouldn’t complain to much. I’m sitting next to a beautiful blonde with big boobies! Just complaining cause it’s my day off. Lol
Don’t they just send you home when they find out what you do
Just reports — but looking like it will be Nick Foles to Nick Foles to Jacksonville. Article said Jags were the only bidder, which of course would mean not us.
I think that would be his best fit anyway.
Puts Bortles in the same trade class as Tanny, except pretty sure he is uncutable because of guaranteed money.
Piggy, no. They said only LEO are exempt off the bat then the judges have to decide who else goes home which just started. Been here for 2 1/2 hours watching videos and listening to a speech from the county voting officer. Ugh. I just keep glancing at boobies to make me feel better 🙂
BBM, What’s LEO?
Law enforcement
Ah, gotcha
bailbondmike says:
March 4, 2019 at 10:28 am
M13, I agree with what you said about DE Gary. I like Chase Winovich (sp?) in the 2nd. He is one of those smart nonstop motor guys. I watched 3 Michigan games last year and I heard Winovich’s name called at least twice as much as Gary’s in every game. Winovich and Devin Bush were names I always heard when their D was on the field.
————–
Thanks, Brother. And I agree with you on Chase Winovich: his 4.59 40-time coupled with a non-stop motor is a winning combination. Methinks Chase made himself a lot of $crilla at the Combine, now possibly going on day 1 of the Draft.
Mike E,
Nice Star Wars song above! 😀
I thought it was cool and well done
Ditto! It wasn’t cheesy like I thought it would be at the onset. Really good singing and decent instrumentation.
wrong
two wrongs don’t make a right. (three lefts do)
Tyrod has a record in the NFL as a semi-successful starter. Rosen not so much.
I’ll gp with Kurt Warner and an unnamed GM that a 3rd is as high as it goes.
didn’t read it yet so my thoughts remain pure
Re sign Gore and play Minkah as FS full time (except for strategic moments to confuse a QB). That way we save a draft pick for a DL, which we will have on a rookie contract after Gore retires.
Start Reshad at SS and give him rest by playing McDonald on obvious running downs or other appropriately timed occasions. That way Jones and TJ will stay fresher and hopefully full speed right into the playoffs. Both have had shoulder injuries cause they hit so hard and hit big men moving full speed.
There ya go! Boy has to be a safety, and I can’t comprehend why we would want to re-sign Frank Gore. Talk about progress stopper deluxe!
Would you like to have Josh Rosen as our QB? What is his strength? Can he be a Brady-lite for a couple years as Bledsoe was until the real thing can be found? For a 3rd?
Or Wake/Quinn/Alonso/Reshad/whoever and a 4th?
Would Tyrod or bridgewater be better in that role? More exciitement to re-interest the fan base?
Would a scrambler QB be better to go with Grant, Wilson, and Drake like a chinese fire drill?
or would a drop back QB be better to utilize their break away speed?
I just love Frank Gore.
He’s tough, a great role model, and a guy who can win a game late.
Instead of seeing him as a progress stopper, why not see him as a career extender for Drake whose body might not take the interior run pounding so well.
Plus if Drake gets 1500 yds + catches 40 passes and 10 TDs , can we afford him or will we lose him like we did Lamar?
Isn’t winovich just a sub/ST guy?
Sweat is the real deal.
Draft him and enjoy.
Gary is another meh guy. Seems kinda passive (if you can be that at that level)
Naples – I don’t think we would run Drake for 1500 yards. He’s a guy that should probably share the carries with another back or two. Still, he should get a lot more touches than he has here. The guy is a HR waiting to happen, and we barely used him. I would scream if we signed 36YO Frank Gore and repeated what we did last year. Give him 180-200 carries, and thrown him a good 60-80 passes and you’ll get some nice production from him. We also have Kalen Ballage, I’d like to see him develop, rather than watch Gore steal his carries. What’s the point of that? We’re supposed to be rebuilding, getting younger, why sign a 36 YO RB? I just don’t get it. It doesn’t follow what we’re trying to accomplish at all.
Just for example – Look at what the Panthers did with Christian McCaffery. 323 touches, Drake had juts a bit more than half that last year, 173. That’s totally under using your asset. If you don’t think Drake fits what you want, then trade him and get some value, don’t just sit him on the damn bench.
Gore is not just any guy. He’s a HoF for real.
Brady’s old too.
I love Drake and want him to get used way better than the dazed and confused Gase did.
What if McCaffrey lasts 2 more years and then the pounding makes him lose a step.
(likely?)
What was Panthers’ record this past year with little McCaff as a featureback?
Watch them sign Gore, use him and McCaff as i outlined above, and go deep in the playoffs. LOL Be just our luck.
If Gore wants to play some more with us before he retires have not real problem with it. The young kids can learn a lot from him….. like having another coach in the Wake way.
Does anyone remember anything being said about Isaac Asiata and what his weaknesses were? Why when we were in desperate need of OG’s he couldn’t get called up?
I’m just trying to figure out if he just doesn’t have it and won’t develop or if he had some issue that they are working through. (I.e. he needed to get stronger or he couldn’t pick up the play book)
I thought he was going to be a gem in the rough but no such luck.
I inferred that he couldn’t learn the plays (especially who to block if the DL lined up “funny.”) and ALSO had really poor technique on certain pass pro sets.
Of course, Gase’s OL guy was trashed on “a white powdery substance he was snorting offf a hooker’s butt” so maybe Asiata has not received much quality coaching, since Gase was too busy designing “fruit basket upset” plays.
From the reports on him being strong wasn’t the problem at all. More a big rough guard stone that couldn’t be polished.
Gore is 36. I love him but I think they should let him go elsewhere.
What you do you guys think about Re-signing Brandon Bolden? (29 yo)
Gonna be some transition time, which means place holders. Bolden had one good game and weird as it is to say at 29 is getting up there. Doesn’t mean can’t be kept for depth though. And is an ex-Pat.
I am still holding out hope that some of the younger disappointments (like Asiata) finally step up.
I can’t count how many guys I see in the league who’s names seem familiar to me that I look up to see they were on the Dolphins and let go.
(Evan Mathis comes to mind)
Rock,
I had posted my thoughts on Asiata when we drafted him. He was extremely unpolished. He was a guy who was playing almost purely on his athletic ability and nothing else. He played out of balance. He was always leaning too far over his toes. He played too high. His knee bend was not good. He reached and grabbed a lot. Long story short, his technique was just pretty bad. Plus, he seemed a little more undisciplined mentally by the things he said when he was drafted. He was talking way too much for his talent level and issues he had. I don’t think he understood the growth and work he was going to have to do coming into the NFL. Just my .02 worth.
Naples – Brady is the lynch pin in the Patriots success, you can’t compare Gore to Brady. No RB wins a championship, or Barry Sanders would have at least one if not five. Gore wants to start, he doesn’t want to just be a mentor. Drake has already seen what Gore is about and if hasn’t rubbed off by now, it won’t. He’s a great RB, one of the best, but just like Wake is one of the best DE’s, and Reshad one of the best safeties, if we’re rebuilding, they don’t belong here. I’m not interested in enjoying watching any of those great players for my own enjoyments if they’re not letting this team grow, and I feel like they’re not.
Hopefully, Gore and Wake get to go to championship caliber teams to finish their careers. I’m hoping Reshad can also go to a team that’s ready to compete for a championship but needs help on D, like Tim mentioned, the Chiefs. He would be great there, and maybe the Chiefs would be willing to give up a high pick to get him. I say this even if all 3 of those guys (Wake, Gore and Reshad) are better than what we have here. That doesn’t matter, because when our window to be competitive arrives, none of these guys will be around or really able to help us 2-3 years down the road. That’s where we need to be looking IMO.
Preach it, Mike E.!
I’ll say it again: I think Wake comes back for us this year.
To illustrate Drakes HR capability
Kenyan Drake – 1TD every 19.2 touches
Christian McCaffrey – 1 TD every 25 touches
Like we couldn’t use more touchdowns?
My take? Adam Gase is a terrible HC and OC.
Hope all is well with D after the tornadoes in Alabama.
Yeah, that did happen around his neck of the woods. Hope he’s alright, too.
Brandon Bolden is a core STs guy and so is Senorise Perry. I could see them both back for STs and depth at RB. I think we can roll with Drake and Ballage as our one-two punch.
D is in Mississippi
Isn’t he?
I thought he was Alabama and SB7 was Mississippi now headed to DC.
D is pretty close to the Senior Bowl which is in Mobile Alabama, but I think he is in Mississippi
I think he’s in the panhandle so maybe Mississippi, thought he was in Alabama.
Tornadoes were in eastern Bama and a chunk north on the Georgia line. So he shouldn’t have been in the worst zone for them. Might have had some real bad weather though.
Cespedes!
My dad and cousins live in Lee County (Opelika), AL. They all came out ok. My oldest cousin said her boys were out trying to help where they could.
Good yo hear you and yours are okay. So sad for many people.
This draft is going to be interesting not just for us but how it starts. If ARZ selects Murray does a Josh Rosen trade then effect where the other QBs go specifically Haskins?
There is a good chance that we draft one of these Clemson DL with our DL coach having good insight on them. He coached them as young pups.
Tim Knight says:
March 4, 2019 at 6:34 pm
There is a good chance that we draft one of these Clemson DL
There seems to be a lot of talent there BUT I have read some interviews with some of the kids praising our coach. So are they good because of him ? I’ve also read a silly article saying that none of them are really all that good because of the talent around them ……
Right they were all good because they were all good. LOL
I don’t think they’re all going 1st rd but 3 of them might.
Hopefully coach gives him some good insight on the guys and we draft a winner Hopefully they are a winner in part because of the coach and hopefully he helps coach the rest of the players up as well
Much like Mike Sherman vouched for Ryan Tannehill? Beware the connections.
Glad to hear everyone is safe Trypod, F4 monster, God bless those affected.
My two favorite prospects right now are Ed Oliver and Clelin Ferrell. Oliver reminds everyone of Aaron Donald and Ferrell reminds me of Willie McGinest. Can play the run and rush the passer. Both of these guys are physically talented and good football players.
Clelin would be the equivalent of Minkah but to the DLine.
I like Lawrence for us too as Naples has described a load in the middle.
TryPod – Glad to hear your family came out alright
Ima trade Parker for Josh Dobbs and draft all this awesome defense. Find as well some guys to solidify the Oline and go compete. Getterdone! (miss him btw)
How do the Giants let Landon Collins walk?
Wow he’s a great player
stupid
Dang, Luke Perry 52 years old – dead.
RIP
Mike E
You know that you and I are great friends. We shared some sympatico moments sitting next to each other at the Fest game (which sucked and ended me supporting Gase). So I get what you mean.
But I totally disagree with you about Wake, Gore, and Jones.
We do not have the resources to get guys to fill those spots yet.
Let’s enjoy some of the premier players ever at their positions and use our limited resources to fill spots where currently we have junk as starters.
Then we can replace our great guys last with high draft picks.
Let’s replace our worst players first. We have guys I can’t enjoy watching. Why keep them?
We can’t replace the whole team in one year.
Of course, the FO will do whatever it does, and I’ll just cheer on as i have done sinc the 60s.
My sister is in Columbus GA, near Opelika. They had some touch down in their neighborhood but didn’t damage them. Destroyed a few places very close to them.
I didn’t get any of the bad part. Some nasty storms but no tornadoes. I’m on the Alabama Mississippi line down near the coast so all of you were correct in some way or the other. Thanks for the concern though and glad to report fine here.
I live in Mississippi and work in Alabama (Mobile)
Actually live about 30 minutes from where SB7 did
That; being said, wow can we get somebody in here who can figure out how to get drake some magic touches, because that guy can score from our own one yard line.
And Ballage, who as you remember was my #1 pick at RB coming out that year, (tied with f’n Sony Michel) can also score from 60 70 yards out if he gets the angle on the last CB.
But you need 3 and I don’t want to waste a draft oick on RB when we need so much help on the DL.
Dex Lawrence did a DL best 36 reps and even at 342 pounds, had a 1.76 10 yard split.
That’s the type 1tech we need. (There are sone other good DTs we could draft too.)
(or we get one in FA) (Sheldon?)
Then get Oliver who is Aaron Donald 2.0.
Naples – Yeah man, I get the disagreement. You’re definitely a friend, you’re a good man, and one much more intelligent than me as well. It’s just my opinion, and my passion behind it. I could be way off on all the things I say, but I stand behind my statements with conviction until they’re proven wrong. I hope whatever they do, even if it’s not what I think should happen, works out for the best of the team.
You guys are both awesome and I too hope they get it right but unlike you I’ll be pissed if they don’t do it the way I say, lol.
no i see your point.
I do.
I just don’t want it to go that way.
What you say makes sense.
I just hate it, hate blowing it up.
I hate the tank.
Good to see you D 👍
Yeah, glad everything is good by you D!
Happy to see you guys on the ed Oliver and Clelin Ferrel since those 2 are some of my favorites as well
I was a fan of Ferrel last year and then he stayed in school
And Oliver just kills it
another DL I like is Jerry Tillery
yep … great player for us
FWIW – They were talking about Landon Collins on NY sports radio a bunch the last couple of days. They basically all agree, the guy can’t cover at all. He’s great at or around the LOS making tackles, but most times when they asked him to cover, he got toasted. That’s why he’s gone
Not sure if this guy looks so dominant bc of the level,of competition- but this is a pretty impressive highlight tape
13: R1P13
EDGE MONTEZ SWEAT
MISSISSIPPI STATE
48: R2P16
DL DRE’MONT JONES
OHIO STATE
78: R3P14
G CHRIS LINDSTROM
BOSTON COLLEGE
116: R4P14
EDGE AUSTIN BRYANT
CLEMSON
151: R5P13
C ROSS PIERSCHBACHER
ALABAMA
188: R6P15
QB RYAN FINLEY
NC STATE
234: R7P20
WR TERRY GODWIN
GEORGIA
13: R1P13
EDGE CLELIN FERRELL
CLEMSON
48: R2P16
EDGE JAYLON FERGUSON
LOUISIANA TECH
78: R3P14
QB WILL GRIER
WVU
116: R4P14
WR LIL’JORDAN HUMPHRY
TEXAS
151: R5P13
G GARRETT BRUMFIELD
LSU
188: R6P15
C KEEGAN RENDER
IOWA
234: R7P20
DL DONTAVIUS RUSSELL
AUBURN
So…if this franchise does nothing but fail, does that mean they will undoubtedly fail at tanking and win? I’m cool with that.
I’m sorry, but if Rosen became available and we could get him for the #13 I’d take it. He’s a steal at #13. Tannehill was drafted #8. How could anyone argue about using the 13th pick in the draft to get Rosen?
He’s a perfect fit for this offense.
I wouldn’t give up a 1st for him. He didn’t show much last year, albeit he was on a bad team. His market is a 3rd. Not necessarily because of him, but because the Cards have put them in a bad bargaining position as well.
Agree about bargaining position
The Cards basically showed everyone their “cards”
Tee-hee…see what I did there
i have played golf at Grand National golf course near Auburn univ where the Tornadoes hit.
very sad.
It all depends on how Grier and Flores view Rosen. From everything we know they weren’t enamored with Rosen last year, but who really knows? It also depends on how many suitors there are for Rosen, and if the Cards really do take Murray #1
We didn’t want Rosen at #1-9 last year and neither did anyone else. A desperate Arizona reached and I don’t see anyone else doing that this year with him, not even the Redskins. I’d definitely try to get the Skins to use some picks to get him high in the second though. We could use as many early QB picks as possible.
There may be 4 QBs taken in the first but only two are possible franchise guys. No reason to reach in such a poor QB draft. Take Tyree in the 4th or late in the 3rd if you move down at some point. We can get 3 really good starters this draft, maybe four. Let’s build the right way.
CBS sports latest mock has us trading up to #5 to take Dwayne Haskins and bring tears of joy to Sonny
I like Haskins
But I don’t really want to trade up
If we think he’s our guy for the next 10 years I have no problem going to get him. I’d prefer not to trade up obviously, but if that’s our guy, get him and then worry about the rest after.
Well if he turns out to be Warren Moon (who he says he models his game after) I might give up 5 drafts for him
But we can’t go through any of these scenarios without using the word “if”
And the other “if” is if he turns out to be busy, if he turns out to be average, if he has a serious injury esrlyninbhis career – then it hurts our franchise
Ryan Tannehill was our guy for 7 years and we didn’t sniff a championship
I think Rosen has a lot of talent
I wouldn’t get carried away with his rookie year – AZ was horrible and no one really plays well in their rookie years and even when they do, it often doesn’t mean much (see RG3)
But we passed on him last year and that means something
Greier was a part of that FO
So I don’t see it
And I also don’t think Rosen is the best opportunity for us, when we have a shot ar haskins, albeit a long shot
Is Rosen an upgrade to Lock or Jones?
I tend to think he’s about the same
I would say let’s see what AZ does as this plays out
They put themselves in a corner by showing so much interest in Murray
An interesting option would be if AZ would take TAnnehill from us for Rosen and nominal draft compensation bc that would help us cap wise and wouldn’t necessarily take us out of the market for a QB in 2019 or 2020
But I stress nominal draft value
I basically either want Haskins or DL/Edge help from the #13 pick
That could be an interesting option (Tannehill for Rosen + a draft pick).
Yeah and if AZ wants a vet to hold the reigns for Murray maybe they want to do it
I know Atheirnis a lot of negativity around Tannehill from Dolfans, but Tannehill + a franchise rookie is a positive combo for a team bc Tannehill is a vey with starting experience
It’s why I have talked about keeping Tannehill if we draft a rookie
But for us at 13 and not knowing who will be available – it’s tougher to take that risk
But if AZ wants Murray at 1 there’s less risk
And Even if Rosen can’t be our franchise QB (which I’m skeptical about) he can be the backup we should have drafted years ago (but failed to)
And we are back in a place where we can hold tight at 13 and see what happens, then look to 2020 to draft a QB if we don’t land one at 13
We didnt pass on Rosen, we just didnt trade up to get him. There is a pretty big difference, and i think a lot of it had to do with Gase not wanting to consider a reboot, so they didnt push to give up draft capital and select him especially when they had a stud defensive prospect that was sitting there in wait.
Piggi – I guess what I mean is if they have really strong convictions that a particular QB can be a great player then I don’t have a problem with going to get him. Of course that player better show he was worth it, and that definitely puts a lot of pressure on the player, the coaches and mostly the GM who made the move. It’s different than liking a QB and thinking if he happened to fall to you you’d consider taking him, know what I mean?
My thoughts on Rosen is it helps solve some problems. If we trade for him, especially if its a 3rd round pick, we have 1 and 2 to put to other things and counting him as our 3rd round pick would be a HUGE value pick. He would fit what it seems like we are going to be planning to do better than Murray, and Murray would fit Arizona’s purposed system better. It would be a win for both teams. If we had to give up a second, i think we are having the same argument, with a slight change in draft strategy.
Im not for trading for him but i definitely wouldn’t be against it. A lot though has to transpire, there are a couple of other draft prospects i like as much or more, i just have a feeling we are not going to have a shot at them. Im feeling Lock or Jones right now. Haskins a close third. Id even consider Murry but i think thats going against what im seeing as our offense, but these coaches may be able to take that talent and do something with it no matter how they have to change up some things so im not going to bemoan the pick even if it is Murray
Its not negative feelings abotu Tanny, Piggy, its financial absurdity to keep him. There is no logical reason to keep him and pay the 26.6.
If you cut him – you still have quite a bit of that financial absurdity in dead money
you have half of it, so tell me it doesn’t make sense to save 13mil in cap space if you can. It makes 0 sense to say, well he’s going to cost us 13mil so lets keep him, and pay him double that…. how can that make any sense.
Im not thinking there can be any trade that nets us roasen thatdoesnt also cost a pick. The Cards are going to look to recoup something from him, they have all the leverage. Rosen is cheap being on a rookie contract, he has a 5th year option, albeit a high price tag one. He has talent and even on a bad team he held his own pretty well for a rookie. They aren’t going to trade him for Tanny and give us a pick, thats not happening. We could Trade Tanny to them as a way to cut down on our cap, we wont get anything i return for the trade. We might could leverage it to be a 3rd instead of a second, but thats about it. Still that basically meant they were willing to do it for a third all along loo.,
No, we would have to give them Tanny and a pick, hopefully not higher than a 3rd. I realized I worded what I wanted to say wrong
Then yes i can see your point, but i promise ya they are not going to sweeten the pot for taking on his cap, thats a bargaining chip for them not us.
We would be better off trading Tanny to a team that wants a step in starter, ie they have all the piees they need except QB and they wanna roll the dice ona guy who might be able to help them this year. They also have to be a team with a lot of cap space so that his contract didn’t push them to their limit. Basically he has to be a pressure sale for us to get anything for him, hell just to get the deal to be made. I still dont think we will get much of anything for him higher than a 5th. We are not looking to recomp a big pick for him, not when looking at it from the FO prospective, we are lookng not to have to pay him and get something, anything, or him.
You guys look at dead cap hit all wrong…. You should only be concerned with how much savings we get. You wanna cut Quinn to save the 12mil, why wouldnt you want to cut Tanny to save the 13? It doesnt matter that there is a dead cap hit for Tanny and not Quinn, it only matters how much you are saving. The only time it matters to make you not wanna cut someone is when their cap hit goes up if you cut them, or in some cases where the amount you save wont replace them as an asset.
We arent trying to win this year so non of his experience as a starter matters to us. If we want a vet presence at QB (and tha has been argued as a “we dont”) you can still save cap hit and get a vet to hold down the fort, again, still saving on Tanny’s cut. Every angle you come at there is a dead end to the logic of keeping Tanny.
Trading for Rosen and giving up a 3rd is a 0 risk trade for us. If we can also get Tanny off the books then bonus. I think it would be good for Tanny too because that system Klingsbury is supposedly going to run would fit him pretty well too so he would get a good chance to showcase himself while Murray got up to speed. I think its a good match but we are for sure not going to get them to give on anything in that trade. They have all the marbles.
If we make that trade, im all in for Montez Sweat, Deandre Baker, Greedy Williams, Clellin Ferrell, Greg Little, Jonah Williams, or Christian Wilkins with our first. Probably at least 3 of those guys will be there.
I don’t think Arizona gets more than a 3rd for Rosen, period.
I think they will, possibly even a second, and im sure of it if we include Tanny.
If Tanny is still on this team next year then i promise you there are pictures of Grier sucking of a male prostitute in a Tanny’s safety deposit box. Only way to explain it.
LOL
And Son’s head will explode.
To expand on that – ‘Zona traded up to get Rosen, so they spent a 1st, a 2nd, and a 5th for him. Now they’re (potentially) pulling the plug on him after one year? What are they going to tell other teams? “Rosen is awesome…a sure fire hall of famer…yeah, that’s the ticket.”? If the Cards thought Rosen was a sure thing franchise QB or had the potential to be above average or elite, they wouldn’t trade him for a one year college starter who might make it in the NFL or might not.
Id tell them, with a new HC and new offensive philosophy i dont think he is the perfect fit for us. We have the option with the first pick to get our guy and Rosen deserves a chance to be a starter elsewhere and has told us if do plan on drafting a guy to please explore his options for trade.
Actually i dont even think you have to tell them, most the NFL execs could figure that out on their own. The opinion of whether a franchise wants to trade for him will be mostly based on what they see in his tapes, not what them wanting to get rid of him means about him as a player. People move on from players all the time, especially after HC transitions.
What Mike said about Landon Collins is what I’ve been hearing about why the Giants don’t want to pay him top safety money. They like him, just not at that price because coverage is not something he thrives at doing.
I see him as every bit as good as TJ in that way, but he probably would be one of those guys who would be better off transition to the NLB position, because his coverage wouldn’t be considered a liability there. A lot og the Bama safeties are like this. Its only recently that their secondary has really started to become a strong suit for them. They have always beena tackle based system, play back and make the tackle in front of you and let the DL/DE/LB’s spuh them to make stupid decisions in the passing game.
Coverage is something they have beenstrong in for about 3-4 years tops.
It’s about his price tag for the Giants. They’re also looking to trade Vernon for the same reason. Good player, not elite but being paid as elite.
The idea of Greg Little is really growing on me the more im unsure of if we will re-sign James. Little replaced Tunsil, is pretty close to as good, and if Taylor goes as high as he is supposed to we probably wouldn’t get a shot at him. Little would be a good fall back option. A lot depends on this upcoming FA period, which thats like next week.
D – And as GM I would tell them you fired your HC after one year of piss poor offensive performance from your QB. Who had Larry “Fuckin'” Fitzgerald to whom to throw. And David Johnson to to whom to hand the ball off. I’m not buying what you’re selling.
At best someone would be getting a QB whose confidence is bruised and battered.
You do have to take that into consideration, thats why a 3rd isnt bad compensation, but i could see if we really wanna offload Tanny’s contract we might offer more to take him lol. One round difference isnt going to be the death of us either.
D
The difference between dead money and the other cap hits is that dead money is not on your roster, it’s just throwing away cap space
If you reduce a cap hit half or some other amount, it’s not equal to the cap savings IMO bc you get nothing in return as opposed to cap space on the roster where you get the actual player who is taking up the space
I think one of the worst most wasteful things out team has done over the last few years is the willingness to accept dead cap money
Look at how high we’ve been he last few years
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/
Dead cap money is not money saved, it’s cap space lost
We always can be spending near the max of our cap space
But when you start factoring in the money we can’t spend bc it’s dead cap cap space, it really starts to deplete our roster
I would like to see our team get away from this
You can’t complete eliminate it – but you can cut it down
Taking a cap hit for a backup QB isn’t such a bad thing if your starter is on rookie salary
But here’s no value in taking a cap hit for a QB that’s not on your roster
As we think about whether we should re-sign James or sign Flowers, we would probably we would probably be able to do both of it weren’t for dead cap money
That’s how I view it. However we should get most of that dead cap back in 2020. I think part of the rebuilding is to release contracts the FO does not like, get younger and begin to get the cap in shape for the future.
Suh is a big part of our dead cap space. If we cut or trade Tannehill. he will also be a big part.
Dead cap is not money saved, but the total cap effect on this year is we SAVE 13mil by cutting Tanny, even as a pre-june 1st. As a post June first we defer about 5mil of it to next year BUT we SAVE 18mil. Dead cap means one thing, you cant take him completely off the books, you can ony take part of him off the books. Any move you make, ie adding a new QB that cost 5mil this next year, actually cost 18mil because you are looking at the 13mil from Tanny plus the amount for the new guy. Still when you do that its 13 + 5 = 18, which by my math is still lower than 26.6
But no, thats not correct. If we cut Tanny we have 13mil MORE to sign flowers or resign James, thats the proper way to look at it.
Right, we have about $13.2M to spend, we don’t get the entire $26M. It’s still a fair amount of savings, despite the dead cap hit. Nothing we can do about the dead cap anyway
Arizona has too many pluses on their side of the negotiations. They are in a buyers market, many teams did their homework on Rosen before, and they likely didnt see last year as his fault with the shit show that everything else was there. Again, they will look at the tape and see what they think of him and develop their barganing around that. Once the demand is set then the pieces will fall into place, and amendments made to find the right match. Still i think you are overlooking a lot of factors that gives Arizona the upper hand in those negotiations.
D – I would throw RT in with a 3rd if that closed the deal. First I would offer RT and a 3rd for Rosen and a 5th.
Maybe a 7th, i just dont see getting anything back in that deal. If we did it would just be a round out the pennies of that transaction.
Dead cap is a casualty of contract terminations. Its unavoidable, you just have to make sure you dont box yourself in by spreading it out. You will carry dead cap hits year to year, its going to happen but managing them so that you dont get peaks of them at the same time is important. Still thats not what ya look at when you determine if a player is cut or not, you look at what you are getting back when you make the cut. The dead cap is managed outside those decisions.
I really dont know what i can say to make it more make sense….
either he costs us 13mil in cap space and we get 13mil back to use as needed, or we lose all 26.6 and have a QB who isnt in our future, who isnt there to help us win now, etc. So why lost 26.6 on a guy who isnt your franchise QB when you can use that 13 to resign a OT that maybe is, or to get a DE in FA that might be a piece to build around.
Somewhere people got it in their mind that Tanny is affordable, and that his contract isnt that bad. Thats just crazy talk, go look at that shit, all these other high priced QB’s who actually justify the money spent on them have contracts that are pale compared to his. Only a couple of guys who have only had a year to show that they were worth the money that they are paid are at higher levels, so they might have made the same mistake we did giving a middling talent player big money, and they probably have to make a similar decision at some point.
D, I get that we also get cap savings with these releases, but dead cap means money on the books that you can’t spend for a player because of a player who is no longer on the team. We’ll have a lot of dead cap this year especially with Suh and Tannehill and then some from a few others. But in 2020 much if not all will come off the books.
But ya cant spend it tied up in a contract either. Literally, with Tanny still here, we cant use any of his 26.6, but if he is cut we can use half of it, how is that now super crystal clear?
Agreed. All this dead cap were from the contracts as we tried to win now. Now Grier needs to start the cleansing for the future.
Pre June 1st look. 13.4 in dead cap, counting 13.4 against this years cap. We save 13.2 this year. and he doesnt carry over to next years dead cap, and threfore costs nothing next year. Call this one rip the band-aid. Total cost 13.4 cap.
Post June 1st look: 8mil this year in dad cap, counting 8 against the cap this year. We save 18.6 mil against the cap this year but he still costs us 5.4 mil against the cap next year. Call this slow pull the band-aid. Total cost 13.4 cap.
Keep him and cut him next year look. He costs us 26.6 against the cap this year, and he costs us 5.4 next year when cut. No savings until 2020, and he costs us a total of 32mil total in cap over the two years.
just saying.
I don’t know what some of y’all see in Josh Rosen. Just watched his so-called “highlights” as a Cardinal, and I’m not impressed in the least. Too many 50-50 balls, too many ducks, and too many risky/lucky throws caught by the immortal Larry Fitzgerald.
Mind you that most of these throws came from a clean pocket, which is why they resulted in a positive play: it’s not as though he was Tannehill, throwing while having several guys in his face for a completion.
Then ya go to the stat sheet to find Rosen was horrible as a rook. No, he obviously hasn’t reached his ceiling… which I believe is Ryan Tannehill… who isn’t good enough in this league. I see so many similarities between Rosen and Tannehill, some of which are very good traits: has a gun, can scramble, can run, takes hits and keeps on ticking, and a relentless competitor.
However, I see many of the same faults in Rosen that I see in Tannehill: locks onto 1 receiver too often, telegraphs his passes, rarely hits his receiver IN-STRIDE (y’all should know by now that’s been my #1 complaint about Tanny since ’12!), and doesn’t have the ability to put a team on his shoulders.
In short, no way am I trading a day 2 pick for Rosen if I’m your GM. Maybe a 4th rounder, but the Cards won’t do it with what it cost them to land Rosen to begin with.
The idea is to upgrade from Tannehill, and IMO, Rosen is Tannehill 2.0 once he hits his ceiling.
Could they have got the draft on him that bad? Might be chasing a Ryan Leaf, but its been less than a year.
My opinion is only my opinion, and I’ve been wrong many times before. The QB position is the most difficult one to evaluate and is also the most important position in sports. We’ll see what happens…
M13 and your opinion is much more informed than mine when comes to guys not on our roster. But that rookie contract sure does sound good. And am sure he got a bonus that the Cards would eat on the cap.
Whatever the new regime decides to do at QB this year I’ll just roll with it as a fan because they did their due diligence on what they’re looking for. I don’t think the Rosen trade discussions to Miami is coming from anywhere but speculation from media types and fans. None of the rumors have come from the Dolphins as a real possibility. Meaning there is no real buzz about it.
Didn’t watch him play a snap other than in highlights, but yeah Rosen for a 2nd or 3rd interests me. Most of that is his rookie contract and that we need a QB. Whatever physical skills that got him picked are still there and that low contract means we can bring in someone else…. via draft, FA, or even Tanny on a redo.
Maybe some of you guys know more — was he that bad?
If we remove Tannehill from the picture, Rosen is an upgrade over what we currently have at QB, Rudock and Falk. Our depth is better, and at worst, Rosen is a decent backup QB. Would I trade a 3rd for a decent backup? Nope. If we’re trading a 3rd, we probably think he can be a decent starter at worst.
Josh Rosen’s entire rookie contract is guaranteed – $17,597,756. Not saying that’s horrible or anything just putting it out there.
And he got $10 million of that in signing bonus, which the Cards would eat. Makes him a real cheap QB.
TRIVIA TIME
read carefully; it’s not a trick
The year was 2012… many felt that the QBs who entered the Draft that year would rival the magical QB year of 1983.
Question: how many QBs from the year 2012 have reached an NFL Conference Championship game as a starter?
And what are their names, of course?!!
I think just Russell Wilson, but I could be wrong
Russell Wilson is a correct answer!
So we’ve got Russell Wilson and Nick Foles… there’s more (as in PLURAL).
Two but I’ll keep the names off for others to play. Obviously I have the names if I think it’s two. 😉
I’ll give y’all one, in case anybody misunderstood the starter part (whether it be full-time starter from game 1, or just starting a Championship Game)…
Nick Foles, Philadelphia Eagles
So they were not necessarily drafted that year? I say three.
Nick Foles- Philadelphia Eagles- M13
Russell Wilson- Seattle Seahawks- Mike E
There’s more!
I had to look it up. I won’t say a ting
Tim Knight says:
March 5, 2019 at 1:06 pm
Two but I’ll keep the names off for others to play. Obviously I have the names if I think it’s two. 😉
————-
There are 4 in total, man! Here’s another hint: I intentionally went out of my way to not say DRAFTED QBs! 😉
I should let this play out longer, but I’ve gotta step away for a bit soon.
Another hint: one of them has already been inducted into the NFL HOF, LOL. 😉
Say it with me, Mike E and Tim!
ANDREW LUCK!
My bad, I read it wrong – read it as NFC Championship game.
So it’s Luck, Wilson, Foles and Keenum.
That’s funny, I actually forgot he was in the playoffs, Russell Wilson came to mind first
Not playoffs, Championship game of the playoffs
Nick Foles- Philadelphia Eagles
Russell Wilson- Seattle Seahawks
Andrew Luck- Indianapolis Colts
The 4th guy? Yup, he was an UDFA and I’m his “agent”, LOL 😉
Tim Knight says:
March 5, 2019 at 1:22 pm
My bad, I read it wrong – read it as NFC Championship game.
So it’s Luck, Wilson, Foles and Keenum.
—————–
BOOM!!!
2012 really wasn’t a bad year for QBs! It’s just that all the QBs who we thought would be great (but for Luck) didn’t pan out like we thought they would.
Forgot Cousins.
Didn’t make it to the championship game.
mf13ss says:
March 5, 2019 at 12:23 pm
I don’t know what some of y’all see in Josh Rosen. Just watched his so-called “highlights” as a Cardinal, and I’m not impressed in the least. Too many 50-50 balls, too many ducks, and too many risky/lucky throws caught by the immortal Larry Fitzgerald.
Mind you that most of these throws came from a clean pocket, which is why they resulted in a positive play: it’s not as though he was Tannehill, throwing while having several guys in his face for a completion.
Then ya go to the stat sheet to find Rosen was horrible as a rook. No, he obviously hasn’t reached his ceiling… which I believe is Ryan Tannehill… who isn’t good enough in this league. I see so many similarities between Rosen and Tannehill, some of which are very good traits: has a gun, can scramble, can run, takes hits and keeps on ticking, and a relentless competitor.
However, I see many of the same faults in Rosen that I see in Tannehill: locks onto 1 receiver too often, telegraphs his passes, rarely hits his receiver IN-STRIDE (y’all should know by now that’s been my #1 complaint about Tanny since ’12!), and doesn’t have the ability to put a team on his shoulders.
In short, no way am I trading a day 2 pick for Rosen if I’m your GM. Maybe a 4th rounder, but the Cards won’t do it with what it cost them to land Rosen to begin with.
The idea is to upgrade from Tannehill, and IMO, Rosen is Tannehill 2.0 once he hits his ceiling.
——————————————————
M13, these are all good points and i appreciate your insight, but let me offer this as to why i dont see it as a bad idea.
First i agree, he had some nice passes and some back ones, he was a 50/50 QB, but so are most rookies. Even some of the legendary ones like Elway were, hell Elway was horrible his first year. I just dont think that we have seen the best Rosen can do, in what was some bad circumstances. We didnt see him elevate his team, but it would have been a hard thing to do for a veteran QB to do much less a rookie.
You are also right, its hard right now not to see Rosen’s ceiling as anything better than Tanny, but what i will say is we have seen it pan out with Tanny, and obviously there is road to go with Rosen. As a day 2 pick even, he isnt selling the franchise and its a easy next year fix. We dont have what we though we might trading for Rosen and you draft Tua or Hebert, or whomever next year or the next. 5 fully guaranteed year for us to find our guy and we dont have to gamble this year if we dont want to if we pick up Rosen.
To me the idea is to upgrade from Tannehill, but i dont know if thats what Rosen represents or that he doesnt, i think its taking the chance because its a better option than doing nothing, and its probably a better option than we would get in the 3rd round of this upcoming draft. The FO guys will know if they feel thats true, but i admit i could see the benefit of making that move.
Need to know what Grier, Allen and McKenzie thought of Rosen coming out and at this time. Also what Flores, Caldwell, O’Shea and even the QBs coach think about him.
This is true. We’re really in a “wait and see” mode right now as fans, being we haven’t the foggiest of the tendencies of our new ‘team’.
Well stated, D… and I appreciate your insight as well, Bro.
You might be able to sell me on Rosen after all. 🙂
Oh not reached a playoff game as a starter. A championship game.
In fact only Tanny, Ryan Finley (who was never a starter), Brock Awesomwiler, amd Grandpa Weeden never made the playoffs as a starter. Weeden and Brock both made it as backups, in the years they were starters for a period of time though.
M13, the only thing we can go by when it comes to players with this new regime is their mantra – selfless/team first, smart and tough. For QBs leadership and accuracy is paramount.
I agree, but by the same token, shouldn’t leadership and accuracy be paramount in any decision for any team when it comes to QBs? I mean, if a QB can’t get those two boxes checked off, he lacks what it takes to make it in this league.
Yes but that’s what O’Shea said every time he was asked what he looks for in a QB. He said a big arm is great but without accuracy it doesn’t mean much. He said other intangibles like mobility is good too, but without the first two that doesn’t mean much either.
Trivia II
Of the 2012 QBs, only two possess a Super Bowl ring. Mind you, everybody who is on a Super Bowl roster gets a ring. Who are they?
Osweiler and Foles.
Wilson too actually.
You beat me! It was 3 with Foles, Osweiler and Wilson being the 2 I had in mind.
WELL DONE!!!
Wilson and a guy who’s been a recent Dolphin. 😉
Damn now this time I leave out the obvious in Foles. LOL
LOL, same here! I totally forgot about Foles on this one, man!
I should have never smoked that bone before exams today. LOL
LOL @ Tim! 😆
So after the two trivia questions I posted today (and D beat me at my own game on Trivia II!), it’s clear to see that 2012 was a very good class of QBs.
I do NOT feel the same way about this QB class. Buyer beware.
For those who recall, I was VERY, VERY HIGH on both Case Keenum and Russell Wilson. I’m sorry, but I don’t see any Keenum’s or Wilson’s in this class.
Closest thing to them (in terms of an underdog) is Tyree Jackson… and he’s not even close to either Case or Russell.
I watched Wlson at Senior Bowl and knew he was a player who would be good, but i aalso knew he wasnt going to get a first round grade because of his height. I considered him as a selection for us but i was almost certain we would take Tanny given who our OC was at the time. My backup to taking Tanny though was Cousins, and i had expected Cousins to be drafted before Wilson.
I dunno, i think if ya look at it, i didnt feel great about the QB class of 2012, and they turned out pretty ok. Not the 83 class by any stretch, but good. 2016 has been pretty good and it wasnt seen as that great when they were being select. I remember plenty of people saying both Goff and Wentz were overrated. One has a ring and has been to the playoffs 2 of his first 3 years. The other has too and one Superbowl. Dak Prescott was part of that class too and he has been to the playoffs 3 of the 3. No one thought much about the 2017 class either and there are 3 of them that have been to the playoffs now, one was a tiny step from a Superbowl.
—————
I’d have ZERO problems with this, as far as us landing Jonah Williams!
HELL YEAH!!!
Same here. Williams could become a pro bowl guard but also has extensive experience at tackle on both sides. He makes the OL better right away. We’re starting this rebuild
with the trenches so no problem with OL at #13. But I think I’d select Ed Oliver or Clelin Ferrell before Williams. But still wouldn’t have a problem with Williams if that’s the direction they go in. Rookie OL need some time to develop most of the time and by the time we’re ready to contend he’ll likely be a stud and we’ll be happy we have him.
And as I’ve been saying since before the Combine, Rashan Gary’s performance will be interesting. He killed it, thus making him a top-10 pick according to Jeremiah… and that knocks Jonah Williams down to us.
I’m none too fond of Gary’s tape. Again, he doesn’t do anything well.
Big, strong and fast but needs to polish his game. He’s more of a rotation DL early with pro bowl upside.
You guys are taking Williams if we don’t re-sign James, right?
Negative! He’d be a starting Guard for us, even if we re-sign James. And if we let James walk, he becomes our instant RT.
OL wouldn’t even be in my first round picture if it didnt mean we lost out on resigning James, outside of maybe Juwann Taylor who looks the part of a very elite OT.
I think Rashan Gary falls into the category of he drew attention and made teams scheme for him. Its like come of the better CB’s, the years they were drafted, the other NCAA’s teams just threw away from their side. Statistically they looked to have off years because they got no opportunities to get PD’s and INT’s but they affected every play because they took away their offensive threats. Gary i think qualifies as one of those players that didnt show up because they neutralize him by putting two on him and chipping him every play etc.
It’s crazy that Iowa has two potential 1st rd TEs in this draft.
Paging Randy!
I think a sleeper in that group is Irv Smith Jr from Alabama. I think he is on a level pretty close to Hockensen and just above Fant. He is a super under the radar guy right now.
My preference is EDGE @ R1P13 (unless Dwayne Haskins falls to us), but I’d be absolutely thrilled with Jonah Williams.
I generally agree
But here are a few DL I include in there with edge
I would not be thrilled if parting ways with James lead to us having to take an OT at 13
Charli at Walterfootball has us taking:
Montez Sweat
Ryan Finley
Benny Snell
Olisaemeka Udoh
Which thats not a horrible draft, but Finley is so bleh to me as a QB prospect and i would have rather had an OT for the 3rd pick and a RB for the 4th if we even drafted a RB at all.
We should only draft a QB the first two days if we believe they have starter ability with upside. Otherwise wait on that and draft one late hoping for diamond in the rough and maybe even a UDFA to compete as well.
I don’t think Finley will be a 2nd rounder
I kind of like him bc he is “bleh”
Boring but maybe a solid backup