Call it whatever you’d like but I have to make a stipulation or correction. In my zest to kiss these rookies ass and to also welcome the vets who were brought in I referred to, in my previous post, our recent year’s Free Agency periods as “making a splash” and while true in most cases this simply cannot, nor will it be tolerated, include the signing of Ndamukong Suh. Bringing Suh to Miami was genius and will pay off in spades. Suh is a special talent. Suh is the bedrock of this team, the biggest meanest sumbitch in the league. 
Suh didn’t show up to voluntary camp, what a bad teammate, blah, blah, blah … wee wee wee
I don’t care if Suh only shows up on 16 Sunday’s (even though a gratis Friday walk thru would be nice, but whatever…) if whatever makes him so pissed off to have to leave where he is that he brings that anger on Sunday.
Is the 4-3 alright for you?
We can play something else if you want?
That kind of talent, don’t kid yourself.
So yes there is a Stipulation. You better believe it.
If you are Herman Cain then it’s “stip-a-lation”, no matter, I love Herman.
Alright Suh didn’t catapult the Fins into the playoffs last year and the Defense as a whole had it’s problems but I’m going to do with Suh what the Tannehill crowd does with him. I blame coaching and scheme, I blame lack of direction and stubbornness to adhere to a dismal plan. I expect Coach Gase and his staff to truly understand the player they have and to use him to their fullest advantage. Let the beast feed – feed the beast.
If I were the coaching staff I would intentionally piss Suh off every game day. Move his locker to a different spot every week. Don’t have his uniform ready and waiting for him. Perhaps a wet-willy, maybe a pink belly, noogie, tie his shoelaces together or the old hot foot.
Whatever it takes to get him to his utmost pissed-offness.
Suh is here, and so is a new coaching staff, everything is different now!!!
Finsmob Unleashed 
Piggy,
It’s hard to say 27 catches on 63 targets isn’t good and place it all on Stills. Hope you’re not doing that. The difference between Stills and his targets and Landry and his targets is the majority of Landry’s targets are short passes. The majority of Stills targets were in the intermediate and long range which are more difficult and lower % throws to begin with.
Some people I’ve spoken to think Stills sucks because they look at the difference between targets and catches as drops; as though everyone of those targets were on target.
If you look at Stills previous year in N.O. his catch to target ratio was a hell of a lot better. So, I attribute the difference in MIA to the lack of chemistry between the qb and the wr with respect to the timing or placement of the throw.
A lot of his targets were deeper lower percentage routes. I happen to like Stills, he’s a playmaker.
I definitely think deeper routes and poor placement of the ball were big factors
but I don’t feel like that number is good enough for me to endorse it
its a low %
I am a Still fan and I think we need him
I am just pointing out that I can’t argue its a good target to catch ratio
It’s funny that you mentioned the draft class where Ronnie Brown was selected.
Fins can complain about what they were dealt but that 1st RD had talent that is still around today;
Teams that don’t draft consistently usually have excuses as to why they weren’t successful.
If you look at the RB that went top 10 in 2005 (Brown at 2, Benson at 4, and Williams at 5); they are all long gone and are examples of why RB shouldn’t be drafted high. Couple things; 1) if you are drafting high you are probably a bad team that needs to fill a core impact positions (QB, DE, OT, WR, S) 2) short shelf life of a RB.
Here is a list of 2005 draftees selected in RD 1 who have made the Pro Bowl in their career:
1-Alex Smith QB (Niners)
2-Ronnie Brown RB (Dolphins)
3-Braylon Edwards WR (Browns)
6-Pacman Jones CB (Titans)
8-Antrel Rolle CB (Cards)
9-Carlos Rogers CB (Redskins)
11-DeMarcus Ware LB (Cowboys)
12-Shawn Merriman LB (Chargers)
13-Jamaal Brown OT (Saints)
14-Thomas Davis (Panthers)
15-Derrick Johnson (Chiefs)
24-Aaron Rodgers QB (Packers)
27-Roddy White WR (Falcons)
30-Heath Miller TE (Steelers)
32-Logan Mankins OG (Pats)
Brown unfortunate for Miami suffered some injuries that eventually cut his career down.
Saban was trying to win right away anyway he could.
Besides lack of SB caliber defenses, Marino also never got that real good solid complementary running game….it was all on how far his arm could carry the Phins each week. Not the best formula for success.
But from a pure passer standpoint, yes Dan the Man had undeniably the quickest release & could thread the needle between 3 defenders unlike anyone ever could or ever will.
Lou,
Stills has his moments where he drops an easy pass (Game in Foxborough he dropped a wide open pass) but for the most part I don’t think he was all that comfortable in the system. He was acquired by Miami of course but he saw too much turmoil. Some guys are affected differently by rapid changes of course but I’ll give Stills a pass. He does much to get open and has great speed and drops no where near as many passes as Wallace lol.
He’s also worked very hard on his craft, seems to be a team player, shows up early & often to work with the QB & other receivers.
I keep saying it, but having the right OC system / play caller will go a long way to helping everybody on offense, from the OL, the RB, the QB & Receivers!
Yeah, I think had Stills stayed in N.O. he would have continued to have the improvement he had from yr 1 to yr 2 because of the consistency there. When he came to MIA some of that chemistry was lost b/c of the change in the system and change in the qb and he had to regain that all over again. I like Stills and loved the trade. I think he can do a lot for us in this offense.
Lou,
I saw you mention Stills and Emmanuel Sanders in the same sentence but that’s not really a fair analysis :P.
Sanders was always a technician at Pittsburgh and he went to the right place where he could be appreciated (Pitt always drafts and reloads at WR).
Pro Lou,
I liked Stills coming out of college and wanted him then.
I think he still fits the personality that Landry and now Carroo share. WR who can fight contact off in their routes.
me too. I remember MF and myself wanting the kid at that time and I was disappointed we didn’t get him. loving the fact he’s in a Phins uni right now.
Some one needs a “snickers”
Al this is in reply to your post before about future pick value.
——————————————–
Yeah i hear its considered somewhere between a half round and a full round difference in value, the future picks. I will say however, not having that pick next year will still hurt 3rd and 4th round bad. We still will miss out on a 3rd and 4th round selection no what it is in trade value. They were banking on those picks offsetting comp picks, so they obviously feel they will get a 3rd and a 4th, which softens the blow, but you can still say, well we would have had 2 picks in both those rounds if we hadn’t given them up. I think they are being optimistic though. If this draft class pans out, what gaping holes are we still looking at or potentially looking at?
My point is if they leveraged future picks that may have been extras, to land guys this year they expect to be long term contributors and that works out how they feel it will, then next year we wont be worried about those picks because we wont be in the position we have been past few year, where we need as many picks as possible to fill the multiple holes on our team. If things go right with the guys we have acquired, then this is all moot.
I think thats the attitude you have to have, going at things planning for the worst every time is a defeatist attitude, i think you have to be smart with doing things but i also think you have to trust your gut a lot of times making moves you feel are best. We can bitch about this in hindsight, but for now, just think of it as we traded away our extras for getting starters for now. If they are right we picked up 7 to 8 guys (counting Alonso and Maxwell) who will contribute THIS year from the draft moves. Thats pretty impressive. What will be more impressive is we should enter next years post season with only a couple starters facing FA. On defense it will be just one guy in Jenkins, and on offense, it could be just Stills and Bushrod (if he wind sup being a starter). That will leave us being light on needs and we can focus hard on getting top quality at whatever sport or two we are left with a need.
Again, if things go right, we arent hurting for those picks next year, so lets all just hope it works out and try to be positive for now. Trust me i know what im asking for because im a trade skeptic, but even if it doesn’t go right, there will be several months to bitch about it later, so no real harm putting it off a little while lol.
Lou,
Landing Tunsil was a godsend and I’m glad the Fins did not do what dumb and dumber over at the Sentinel suggested (draft someone else).
Albert’s position now has a true replacement that Miami does not need to find next year or the year after that and so on.
If I were the Fins coaches though, I wouldn’t just say Tunsil is OG for now, I’d make Albert/Tunsil/James battle it out for the 2 OT starting positions (yea, put James to the fire and Albert as well) and the loser goes inside to OG.
Agree 100%
yap
Still is a fine player, i dont see last year being a reflection of what he could do with us this year. I think it will start out with Still being more involved than Caroo, and there being a disparity between Caroo’s snaps vs all the others, but i think towards the end of the year its going to start patterning out and all 4 will be playing pretty evenly. I still think most of the receptions go to Landry, Paker probably winds up with most yards and probably TD’s, i think Stills and Caroo both wind up putting up some decent reception and yardage numbers though. Id expect the ball to be spread around a lot more but you cant argue the chemistry Landry and Tanny have being an advantage.
I think Gase’s biggest challenge is going to be getting Tannehill to stop looking Landry’s way most of the time and start spreading the ball around more. Landry getting 110 catches is great for Landry but probably not the best way for the team to win games. If he does that and is successful we could see a game where Parker is the shit one week, Stills another and Carroo another. When teams can’t shut down your offense by taking one player away it’s a lot easier to win games. That’s what I think this draft was all about.
Thats kinda how Green Bay rolls. I remember one year it literally was a different receiver each week putting up 100+ and 2 TD’s, its really damn hard to stop it if all your receiving targets are capable of that kind of day. Thats the kind of receiving corp we are building.
Jonathan Martin visited a school and talked to a bunch of middle schoolers recently on behalf of Beyond Differences, an organization focused on eliminating social isolation. And good for him. He also talked to a reporter while there. Some interesting parts of that:
———————————-
“I’ve known ever since I was a kid that I was different from the other kids. I was trapped in my own head often, and I would later learn that I have major depressive disorder, which means you get sad easier than other people, and I get anxiety to go along with that,”
He called the entire Dolphins bullying scandal “a steaming pile of crap….From the Miami Dolphins players perspective, they probably thought I was making everything up, which was fine, but not even giving me the benefit of the doubt made me lose respect for everyone in that building — everyone — so I mean, I’ve moved on. I hope they’ve moved on.”
“At a certain level Richie and I were friends. We hung out. That’s fact. He’s got his own issues like I had issues with depression related to dealing with all their BS, but I don’t even know if Richie wants to be a bad person. Part of me thinks he just is because he’s allowed to be in the realm he occupies. It’s weird because we still have mutual friends. I have no desire to ever see or talk to him. I’ll get nothing from it. That’s in the past. I don’t know what his thoughts are and I don’t really care, honestly.”
Full at http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/the-quiet-redemption-of-jonathan-martin
For a person who is “past it” he talks like a person with really fresh emotions towards it. While i do empathize with him, as i would anyone with a disorder out of their control, i dont believe for a second he is over it, past it or has dealt with it. He needs a better shrink than he currently has and better medication.
I think Richie should be allowed to beat his ass.
Honestly he still sounds bitter the locker room supported Richie.
Yeah — “made me lose respect for everyone in that building — everyone.” Still living it cause that just doesn’t make sense. Would be different if his next two stops had been more successful.
I am sure Richie is all broken up about it too!
Al,
I wasn’t really comparing Stills to Sanders as much as I was posing the question whether Gase would be looking to use Stills in a similar fashion on the offense.
I think the comparison is pretty close, Stills might be a little more Mike Wallace with that deep speed, and Sanders is probably more Antonio Brown with that precises route running and acceleration out of breaks, but its a close comparison none-the-less.
Pretty good comparison. I think Stills appears to be a better worker than Wallace. I also believe stills does a superior job to Wallace maintain G spacing from the sidelines to allow a throwing space for his QB.
doesn’t brady do the same regarding going to the same receiver? Edelman gets way more catches than anyone else on the team. Welker was the same way in NE offense.
D,
I liked Carroo alot prior to the draft and I thought he was going to go in the 4th or better based on what I was reading about him (scouts were raving about him) and I just never thought Miami would bother taking someone like that because they were desperate at other positions.
Trust me the only trade that made me scratch my head is the one where Miami traded down from #147 overall to #196 (gained #204 & #250). There was alot of talent there at #147 to be had then and that went between 147 and 196. The Fins did trade back into #186 from #196 to take Grant by giving up pick #227 (RD 7). Even if the Fins felt strongly about Grant and felt he would be there at 196 but then changed their mind, if they wanted 186 they still had picks 227 (eventually used to move up) and 231 at their disposal to do so at that point at pick 147.
Meanwhile the Pats flipped that pick and acquired a 4th RDer in next year’s draft with a combination of RD 6 picks LOL. NE of course lost thier 2017 4thRDer in deflate gate crap so that’s why they went ahead and traded for that future 4th pick.
Guys that went between 147 and 186 that people around here discussed prior to the draft:
#149 RB Paul Perkins (Giants), #150 RB Jordan Howard, #151 OG Joe Dahl (Lions), #155 OT Joe Haeg (Colts), #156 RB Jonathan Williams (Bills), #160 LB Kentrell Brothers (Vikings), #161 OG Christian Westerman (Bengals), #168 OT Spencer Drago (Browns), #169 LB Antwione Williams (Lions), #171 RB Alex Collins (Seahawks), #172 WR Rashard Higgins (Browns), #175 LB Jatavis Brown (Chargers), #178 CB DJ White (Chiefs), #183 LB Devante Bond, #184 TE Jerrell Adams.
I thought the RB on value might have been a good idea but I can see about sticking to your guns instead of doubling down. THe passing of certain LB though i thought was questionable especially taking Jordan Lucas at 204 over someone like LB Elandon Roberts who the Patriots took at #214
I still preferred Burgess over Roberts or Wright😀👍
I think Emmanuel Sanders is a better receiver than Stills, but I’m biased. He’s much more productive, and he actually catches the ball more often.
He didn’t start off the same way but to me Emmanuel Sanders is playing at a Marvin Harrison kind of level.
Well, he’s become more productive over the past 2 seasons. Stills could get to that point this year.
Stanger,
I have a hard time understanding how Martin can say he told the Fins about the ‘bullying’ and that they just blew it off as if it were nothing is that he lost respect over this while at the same time still hanging out with Incognito at that point in time where presumeably he told the Dolphins.
To me Incognito and that whole relationship with him became the scapegoat to other issues in Martin’s life.
I find it too coincidental that the timing of Martin’s blow up publically coincided with his demotion at OT a week after miami acquired McKinnie and where he rated highy vs the Pats in his first game at LT.
Didn’t he also proclaim during that Dungy sit down he didn’t tell any of the coaches what was going on?
He’s got his issues. Major depressive disorder ain’t like just taking Prozac. Also in the article is that he wishes all football could be like it was at Stanford. Sorry Jonathan…..it ain’t.
BTW — Hoping you don’t have a bachelor party scheduled for the Fest.
dbolt48 says:
May 13, 2016 at 12:35 pm
I still preferred Burgess over Roberts or Wright
———-
I’m not complaining; he’s a Dolphins at least :).
Him & Blunt should be interesting to follow this summer.
Blount
Dbolt,
And Ruben (Hurricane?) Carter? 😛
LOL…they’re making sure there’s a multitude of centers this year. I wonder if they can find a Denzel Washington to be his understudy😆
D says:
May 13, 2016 at 12:07 pm
Thats kinda how Green Bay rolls. I remember one year it literally was a different receiver each week putting up 100+ and 2 TD’s, its really damn hard to stop it if all your receiving targets are capable of that kind of day. Thats the kind of receiving corp we are building.
——-
And NOLA as well…feast or famine for many WR in fantasy there.
Stanger,
lol @ banchelor party dates…
Anyway, what game looks good for the Fest?
I will probably try and make the Chargers/Rams game out West since they are in back to back weeks.
You can see the poll up top and vote for yourself, but the people have spoken. Bills on Oct 23 is winning strong.
Sounds like a great West Coast trip though.
You guys can’t expect miracles in the first year of a new HC who brings in a new system on both sides of the ball.
Should Tannehill & the offense improve on last year’s crap show under Lazor? Absolutely!
But I think under Gase, it will really start to get going by year 2 7 beyond. I just hope they show enough this inaugural year that the plan doesn’t get blown up by hasty decisions…we’ve had too much of that in the past as we all know.
Same holds true for the defense this first year under VJ.
Go Phins!
didn’t the jets have a 1st year coach last year? Its ok to expect miracles first year. I mean sparano got us to the playoffs his first year.
professorloumiamidolphinsblog says:
May 13, 2016 at 12:49 pm (Edit)
Well, he’s become more productive over the past 2 seasons. Stills could get to that point this year.
**********************************
Not gonna kill you on this, but the same rules for Stills should apply to Ryan Tannehill too. If you want to be fair they should.
well, he went from having Brees throwing the ball to him to having RT throwing the ball to him. Huge diff
Don’t just stop at QB….different schemes also and a HC/ offensive mind that knows how to use his offensive roster.
That’s true, but why compare Drew Brees to Tannehill, when he’s been in that same offense for many years, and is very comfortable in NO. Hey man, the ball’s there to be caught, catch it, no matter who threw it to you. I’d take Sean Payton’s playcalling over the Lazor/Philbin playcalling any and every day of the week.
Back to your original comment, Stills went down last year, and so did Tannehill. So did the entire team really, so again, if Stills has the likelihood to improve, so does Tannehill.
Stills was open quite a bit. Not his fault he didn’t have the qb with the balls to throw it to him.
Can you guys think of any receiver who’s numbers have gotten better with Ryan Tannehill throwing him the ball?
Wallace’s TDs went up. I can name 3WRs & a TE/ HB who’s numbers fell off a cliff after leaving.
There are a few
No question
Clay and Hartline are the big ones
Landry doesn’t seem to have a problem with Tannehill, either does Parker. Who else are we talking about, Brian Hartline did, but then he went back down again. Legadu Naanee didn’t get better under anyone.
Nannee caught 44 passes in Carolina and 1 pass for Miami…lol
I think that one is a defiantely a down
Landry and Parker have only played with Tanny – throw them out of the discussion
Hartlines numbers went down
So did Clay
Hartline
Clay
Bess was on pace for a career high before Ireland shut him down.
Yeah, Landry for one…..
But can you think of any LB’s numbers that have gotten better with Suh up front?
Can you think of anyone that has really gotten that much better under a Philbin run staff? Very few have, Tannehill being one of them actually, then the whole Bazooka Joe mess finally collapsed last year thankfully, cause it now has brought POSITIVE change, for most here….hopefully you’ll be on board eventually!
Why di you guys keep saying Landry
I meant with different QBs
numbers then went up and down
dropped my Magic 8 ball and this came up. it’s broken:
Piggy
Think about the WR’s we had here in MIA in ’12 and ’13, and if you can’t remember, I’ll refresh your memory. Brian Hartline, Legadu Naanee, Armon Binns, Rishard Matthews, Brandon Gibson, Mike Wallace, Marlon Moore.
You should have some new found respect for Tannehill, considering half those guys are either out of the league, or doing worse than they did when they were here.
or you can look at it and say we got more out of them than any other team.
Not we, Tannehill. He’s throwing the ball buddy
no, we, as in the team, the coaching staff got more out of them than any other team.
Legaduuuuuuuuu!
This is irrelevant to the discussion
We are talking about Stills (I thought)
Does it matter that Tannehill had shitty receivers in his first couple of years?
Now I have to assume Stills sucks bc his numbers went down without Brees?
Piggy
How about instead of guys who got better with Tannehill, do how many guys got worse without him.
Pig,
When your saying Clay and Hartlines numbers went down, you meant when they left correct?
Yes
absolutely
Bc Tannehill is a better QB than what the Bills or Browns have
Likewise
its recipricol to Stills
but everyone on here tightens up when we don’t put Tannehill on a mountain
Pigy
Hartline was BETTER with Tannehill, he registered his only 2 1000 yard seasons with Tanny. How do you figure he got worse???
I think he meant they saw a drop when they left.
he went to CLE. of course he’s going to have a drop off.
Dabone Bess fell out the league after landing in Cleveland.
exactly. so did Starks. see a pattern there.
Tannehill got Clay a nice big contract in Buffalo
lol. I still remember Clay running wide open deep across the middle of the field and Tannehill missing him by 10 yds. Yeah, it was Tannehill who broke those tackles vs Pitt late in the game to win it for us.
You single out 1 play. How about all the others where Thill hit Clay repeatedly and often
yeah, how many times did Clay have to turn around like Landry to make a catch that should have been placed out in front of him?
Tannehill doesn’t make anyone around him better. He’s put a ton of effort into looking at film and working with his receivers during the offseason and where exactly are the results? He completed 2 0f 5 over 40 yds last season; both to Parker. 1 when Parker out leaped the db to make a great catch and the other on the opposite side he threw into double coverage and Parker made a great adjustment on the ball to make the catch.
It’s going to be the additions to the team elsewhere that make all the difference to the team because Tannehill isn’t a great qb. He’s serviceable at best as long as we’ve got all the other pieces in place. However, there isn’t going to be a huge jump made by Tannehill with great coaching. The improvement will be only because the entire offense has improved; not because of anything he does special. We’ve seen what we’re going to see from him and we’re not getting any more. You need to surround him with EVERYTHING to win. Great qb’s win despite not having everything else to support them.
This is what happens when you go into in an argument thinking you had the right of it, and then need to retreat with your
squigglytail between your legs. lolLOL @ Lou the man with pockets full of excuses. It’s silly already.
Mike, you’re wasting your breath….his whole post was an attempt to run Tanny down some more….gotta love Phin fans eh? 🙄
Pig,
Wallace’s yards actually improved when he first came to Miami after a 3yr trend of declining in Pitt. I think that’s more of a reflection of Wallace the player though vs the QBs.
Lou
OK, so Drew Brees makes Stills better, but our team makes Hartline better. Gotcha.
That’s called selective reasoning, but hey, why not when you got nothing else.
It’s not selective reasoning. It’s a fact. https://i.imgflip.com/143ihp.jpg
LOL
Tannehill makes Hartline better than any Browns QB
I doubt anyone wants to pin a medal to Tanny’s chest for being better than Browns QBs
GDP
Yeah man, I need oxygen now
LOL
Not responding to anything on here, more a general question, how come every time I read something that mentions Andrew Luck the always inflate his performance / value? I know the narrative of him coming out of college was he was “one of the best ever” to come out. But the facts are he has not lived up to that billing and to this day he is still over hyped. Example of an ESPN article today;
“New Miami Dolphins offensive coordinator Clyde Christensen spent the past 14 seasons on an Indianapolis Colts coaching staff working with Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, who are two of the best quarterbacks of the past 20 years”
The FACTS are that he is an under 60% passer throughout his career with a career passer rating of 85.0 (AVERAGE at best)
Ryan Tannehill has a higher completion percentage and higher career passer rating than him, but he “sucks” while the national media still touts Luck as “one of the best ever” Luck’s average yards per pass is 3-5/8″ more per pass than RT’s.
Why is the FALSE perception still perpetuated?
LOL, we posted a similar idea at the exact same time…GMTA!
Agreed, but Luck came into the league with HUGE hype as you mentioned….but the Amish guy is showing some vulnerability for sure.
I stand behind Ryan Tannehill.
he’s NOT Amish! he’s the Geico caveman
stats. Maybe because Luck wins games?
Is John Elway considered one of the best qb’s to ever play the game?
….from Jimmy DynoMite Walker @ ESPN:
DAVIE, Fla. — New Miami Dolphins offensive coordinator Clyde Christensen spent the past 14 seasons on an Indianapolis Colts coaching staff working with Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, who are two of the best quarterbacks of the past 20 years. Therefore, it is only natural for Christensen to have high expectations at the position this year when he works with Miami Dolphins quarterback Ryan Tannehill for the first time.
Christensen inherits a quarterback who has been an enigma through his first four seasons. Tannehill has shown potential and posted back-to-back 4,000-yard seasons. But he has also struggled with consistency, winning third downs and fourth quarters, and getting the Dolphins over the hump and into the playoffs. Tannehill has yet to post a winning season and is 29-35 as a starter.
Despite his ups and downs, Tannehill is making a good first impression with Christensen.
“I love the way he works,” Christensen said. “I love the way he’s attacking it. (We are) still way in the getting-to-know-each-other process (with) him trying to learn a system. To judge him yet would be unfair, and that’s what I told him.”
Christensen, along with head coach Adam Gase, will work closely with Tannehill to make sure Year 5 is a success. Christensen is replacing former offensive coordinator Bill Lazor, who was fired during the season after the offense went in the tank. The play-calling was predictable and there were some internal concerns that Tannehill did not have enough freedom in the offense, which is something he says he’s looking forward to this offseason.
According to Christensen, this spring’s organized team activities and minicamps are more of a “teaching period” instead of an evaluation of Tannehill. Christensen is giving Tannehill a clean slate and will not formulate a firm opinion of strengths and weaknesses until the entire offense is installed and the quarterback has a full understanding of the scheme.
“The evaluation will come training-camp-wise,” Christensen said. “Training camp, now, you got to be able to apply this stuff. That’ll be the first time I talk to you where I’ll say [where Tannehill is]. … But I think he works. He learns. It’s new. He has embraced it. Like everybody else, I think it has been a fun teach.”
TOTAL 64 -2,248 -1,392-61.9-35.1-15,460 -6.9-241.6-87-3.9-54-2.4-80-184-30-184-1,390-85.2
TOTAL 55-2,106-1,224 -58.1 -38.3 -14,838-7.0-269.8-101-4.8-55-2.6-87-203-38-115-722-85.0
Which is better?
getterdone says:
May 13, 2016 at 1:46 pm
….from Jimmy DynoMite Walker @ ESPN:
DAVIE, Fla. — New Miami Dolphins offensive coordinator Clyde Christensen spent the past 14 seasons on an Indianapolis Colts coaching staff working with Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, who are two of the best quarterbacks of the past 20 years.
how in the world is luck one of the ‘two of the best quarterbacks of the past 20 years’. he has done nothing at all but come out of college with a lot of hoopla.
did he not take his team to the playoffs his first three seasons in the league?
Marc Sanchez
You guys are missing the point
as usual being eager to defend Tanny you don’t want to hear anything
If you weren’t so defensive about Tannehill these conversations would probably be a little more reasonable….but as usual…well…
I mentioned Hartline and Clay myself before reading any of your comments
I don’t think there is any question, at least to me, that Tanny is better than the QB in Clev or Buffalo
but Brees to Tannehill is also a downgrade for Stills
The Qb throwing the ball matters to a receivers production
There are a lot of QBs Tannehill is better than
I think he is a middle of the pack in terms of NFL QBs
the point is you are probably judging Stills a little too harshly
Cameron is probably the exception here as I think Tannehill is better than whet the Browns had in his time here.
But the point I s not that Tannehill is an asshole
the point is that the receivers numbers usually drop based on QBs
If you go down the list of receivers Tannehill has worked with – it usually plays out that way
EITHER UP OR DOWN
So you can turn off your Tanny Vaginies for a few minutes
Tanny is not as good as Brees.
Brees is a HOFer
its not really much of a slight
You guys are incredible
http://memecrunch.com/meme/2ACP9/that-ll-do-pig/image.png?w=450&c=1
What slight did I give you? I just gave names of players who improved when Ryan worked with them?
not you
You actually asked for clarity
I actually said Hartline and Clay before anyone else mentioned them
professorloumiamidolphinsblog says:
May 13, 2016 at 2:13 pm
did he not take his team to the playoffs his first three seasons in the league?
first, no HE didnt, i never saw him play a down of defense.
second, so to be one of the best qb’s in the last 20 years the requirement is be on a team that goes to the playoff your first 3 seasons and then miss basically an entire season
got it, so basically do little of nothing but it makes you one of the best qb’s in the last 20 years
again, is Elway considered one of the best qb’s of all time? yes or no?
I dont think you can compare a player’s time with one team vs another to make arguments about the quality of QB, or scheme or whatever because there are too many variables to point a finger at any one of them as for the cause of change. When some of those variables start being nullified thats when you can start focusing in on the source of change. Stills having another year with Tanny should eliminate some of the chemistry debate.
professorloumiamidolphinsblog says:
May 13, 2016 at 2:24 pm
again, is Elway considered one of the best qb’s of all time? yes or no?
what does that have to do with luck being called one of the best qb’s in the last 20 years. listen, i dont hate luck, i think he has the potential to be a very good qb, i just dont get what he has done in 4 years, one he basically sat out, to be lumped in a sentence with manning and called two of the best qb’s in the last 20 years.
LOL
look at what Luck has done in his first 3 seasons. His team went to the playoffs his first 3 yrs and in ’14 he threw 40 tds. Now go back and look at what Elway did in his first 8 yrs in the league. More int’s than td’s yet Elway is considered on of the best of all time because his team won games and he won championships with Denver. But, he also helped lead them to victories as did Andrew Luck. Are his stats the greatest? No. Tha’ts why I don’t take stats at face value.
The only thing that matters is winning and how you get there. Luck has WON games for his team because he has what it takes to do that. He’s kept drives alive just like Elway did when he played and made the plays when they were needed.
I can’t even fathom when someone puts up stats and compares Tannehill to Luck and says Tannehill has better stats than him. I highly doubt the Colts even sniff the playoffs with Tannehill as their qb over that same 3 yr period.
Rock:
Interesting point on Luck and as an often Tannehill defender I appreciate it. However, I have to give props to Luck and he is clearly a better QB regardless of what the numbers say. The biggest difference is he wins games when it matters. He has been to the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons and the Colts have a pretty mediocre team around him
The Flying Pig says:
May 13, 2016 at 1:14 pm (Edit)
Nannee caught 44 passes in Carolina and 1 pass for Miami…lol
I think that one is a defiantely a down
Landry and Parker have only played with Tanny – throw them out of the discussion
Hartlines numbers went down
So did Clay
***************
So that its clear to the Tanny sensitivities
Time moves forward
when a players numbers go down
and that player leaves Miami
it means that his numbers went down when he wasn’t playing with Tanny
Here is a video demonstrating discussions about Tannehill
Hartline’s numbers could have gone down for a ton of reasons, worse cluster fuck of a team situation in Cleveland, declining ability, worse QB situation, etc etc.
Different reasons for declines w/ players.
Shitty QBs (plural)
Not a great player to begin with
for some one like Hartline to succeed he’s going to need chemistry
he is not a guy you put anywhere and get instant success
that’s just my opinion
I don’t understand calling Luck one of the best QBs in the last 20 years
He was definitely one of the best QB draft prospects ever
and he has produced since he came out
“One of the best” is a bit vague
Could be one of the best 10
or one of the best 100
Its kinda of a flaccid stamement
the writer didn’t want to write two sentences
“Manning is one of the best Qb evers and Luck is one of the best young QBs playing now.”
its too long
Piggy
I thought you were saying Hartline’s numbers went down with Tanny, when I knew the opposite to be true. BTW, you may not have had the agenda to slight Tannehill, but the person discussing it with a heavy slant (not naming names) definitely was, so that’s what the majority of responses from most of us were going.
LOL. (you know who you are)
🙂
Marc Sanchez actually has better playoff stats than Andrew Luck, in every definable way.
didn’t look up the stats
but we are probably talking about a quarter of the attempts
Who’s taking the dump, you or the porcupine? lol
Lou’s Porcupine
Thanks Lou I could’ve gone all day without seeing captain obvious.
Stinky would be a great QB, if he had ball control, and ass control. I mean, if he’s not turning it over he can move the ball with the best of them.
lou,
and when luck has a career like elway will be glad to call him one of the best over the last 20 years. until then he isnt. he is a qb with loads of potential
you can keep arguing all you wont but no one other then some one with an agenda in an article would call him one of the best. maybe the potential too but he isnt there yet. what if he blows out his shoulder next year, you going to say his career was a success and he is one of the best qb’s ever?
can’t argue w/success. when a qb comes out of college and leads his team to three consecutive playoff appearances that’s pretty darn good.
I agree Luck isn’t there yet, but he’s done some good things on the field, even though he’s been in a shitty division.
The Flying Pig says:
May 13, 2016 at 2:35 pm
I don’t understand calling Luck one of the best QBs in the last 20 years
He was definitely one of the best QB draft prospects ever
and he has produced since he came out
copy ca……i mean copy pig
And this last point is where Steve’s two guys at a bar analogy fails.
Not all beers are the same and paying $3 for piss in a bottle is different than paying $3 for a nice double IPA.
You got me there Al;)
Actually i think Tanny and Luck are pretty comparable as far as their first 4 years in the league. Both have had 3 progressively better years, both had a bad year 4, Luck started out ad a better developed player and as such took his team into the playoffs, Tanny just missed them each year. Both need to get back on track and start moving forward again. I do think because as Lou said, Luck came out in his first 3 years taking them to the playoffs, he is and will be considered the better player, but at this point id say Luck hasnt met his potential either. He plays in a weaker division, he has played with better coaches, so i really think that he should have already pushed deeper in the playoffs and i think last year definitely shouldn’t have been as bad for them as it was. Test of how good a QB will come next year, same as Tanny. Texans are upping their competitiveness, Titans definitely should be more of a threat, same with Jacksonville.
Luck has one big flaw that jumps out to me
turnovers
and that’s a big flaw
Tannehill has a lot of little flaws that combined lead to losses IMO
They both have to get better
I think you might be able to flip a coin to gamble on who will actually get better
The Colts did a great job building around Luck right away
The Dolphins, not so much
but Tannehill is having problems putting it all together
and Luck on the other hand, has some good streaks when he looks like a special QB, but he has other moments when he just looks like shit
I don’t think Tannehill has looked as good as luck has or as bad as luck has (since his rookie year) on a game by game basis
Fair anal-alysis 😉
Lou
For you, the ONLY stats that matter, wins and losses.
Mark Sanchez 4-2, Andrew Luck 3-3
Mark Sanchez > Andrew Luck
Denver Broncos are lucky as hell
steveccnv says:
May 13, 2016 at 2:58 pm
I agree Luck isn’t there yet, but he’s done some good things on the field, even though he’s been in a shitty division.
can you do me a favor and try and get lou to understand that. i give up.
i bet roger will get a good laugh though when he gets lou’s letter for why luck should be in the hof while he is still playing
Piggy, no one is being too defensive of Tanny, maybe it’s that some are being too offensive?
I’m the original Tanny homer, before we even drafted him.
But I too have said here many times, that he has to continue to develop, and that we need to keep building around him to help that cause along.
The franchise is doing that, including also now building around Tanny with fresh coaching instead of just strictly new players.
Lot’s to be optimistic about….I look more forward to seeing an experienced Tanny who’s still young, being to flourish, than I would if we were starting all over @ QB with say trading up to get Wentz or Goff, and then wondering, worrying if & when they might develop over the next 4-5 years.
Go Tannehill & Go Phins!
As a man with a Tangina, I approve this message. lol
that’s fair
You’re such a fucking biased hater😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 because of that I will present you w/ Antonio Cromartie’s self provided family tree:
👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👨👩👧👨👩👦👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👧👨👩👧😉👨👩👦👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👨👩👧👧👪👪👪👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👨👩👧👨👩👦👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👨👩👧👨👩👧👧👪👪👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👪👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👦👦👪👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👨👩👧👧👪👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👨👩👧👧👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👨👩👧👧👪👪👪👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👨👩👧👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👪👨👩👧👧👨👩👧👨👩👦👦👨👩👧👦👨👩👧👦🐬
Thank you…now come in for a big bro bear hug from me!
I was trying to hug Piggy, not the Cromartie family tribe.
You don’t like the tribe GDP? You afraid you might get impregnated by a hug?
GDP, see i see some of those place with the moniker of Tannyhater as being of the same mindset, many of us have said very similar things but people fly into defending him without seeing we are saying we see the potential, he just has to get to reaching it. In fact from my opinion there are more moderates on the subject than fringe people, its just the fringe people keep assigning the moderates new labels, just because they dont COMPLETELY agree with their viewpoint. You wont convince me that he doesn’t have a set of faults, completely his own, that he must develop past, but i also wont ever say he was never the right guy and that he has never shown any promise either.
Does anyone know?
Does HBO air a later showing of Game of Thrones on sunday night if you miss the 9pm one
or is it avialble on HBO on demand that night after it airs?
Record it.
assume I’m a pig who doesn’t know how to do that….
Lot’s to be optimistic about….I look more forward to seeing an experienced Tanny who’s still young, being to flourish, than I would if we were starting all over @ QB with say trading up to get Wentz or Goff, and then wondering, worrying if & when they might develop over the next 4-5 years.
getter,
except after being beaten down for the last 20 years it is hard to be optimistic about anything this team done
LOL@ the Cromartie Family Tree
The Dolphin in that tree has me worried
Awe look everyone is hugging….
Well, except for that one. 🙂
I believe thats called rape…..
LOL, that’s about how the bro luv goes around here….good one.
D, yeah, I think we’re all on pins & needles as Phin fans since the parting of the great decades of Shula, then Marion too.
So we all find different things to lash out at about the team. Some choose Tanny, some Suh, some Ross & Tbaum, & everybody at Dallas Thomas…lol 😉
^not Marion, although I liked Brock…lol…meant ^Marino^
Here’s what kills me about the Luck vs Tannehill discussion, you guys go on and on about the stats and playoff appearances or whatever, but no one mentions that Luck has gotten it done with the game on the line. Who as an opposing D are fearing more RT or Luck when it’s late in the 4th and you’re up 5 points?
I don’t think opposing defenses fear or respect Tannehill when it comes to the passing game. He throws the ball 586 times a game but we don’t win throwing the ball that much. Plus, a lot of those throws, 60% are within 10 yds of the L.O.S. Defenses will give you that all day.
586 a season. sorry
Brady throws mostly short passes and teams fear him, based on your response why is it different?
Piggy, do you have TiVo or does you cable company/direct tv/ whatever have a DVR system?
just cable
I need to see this team win games this year and Tannehill to be the difference maker in those wins to stop with my rants. Then, I will go away and come back as one of Cromartie’s kids.
You’d make a better Cromartie kid than you would a Tannyfan! just sayin
Looks like GoT shows at 9PM, 11:30PM, 12AM, 2AM
LOL @ dbotl and Cromartie kids.
It’s tough to quantify Luck’s success via playoff births.
You think the Colts with Luck get into the playoffs playing in the AFC East? NOPE
Maybe, he wins games when the game is on the line, that’s why they talk about him as being one of the best in the last 20 years.
Maybe one day we will all be this happy about the Dolphins…sorry in advance Piggy.
Luck had better weapons, a better coaching staff, and a weaker division. Comparing the two is hardly even apples to oranges. It’s like apples to silly string.
Right On Brocephus.
steveccnv says:
May 13, 2016 at 4:57 pm
Maybe, he wins games when the game is on the line, that’s why they talk about him as being one of the best in the last 20 years.
——
Perhaps but the Colts in division vs non division disparity is great…
2014 -> 6-0 in the division 5-5 outside of it (2-2 non-conf rec)
2013 -> 6-0 in the division 5-5 outside of it (2-2 non-conf rec)
2012 -> 4-2 in the division 7-3 outside of it (3-1 non-conf rec)
The weirdest thing about 2012 is that they went 11-5 despite being -31 in points differential.
That same year the Fins were -29 and finished 7-9
All just meaningless stats to me, here’s why, the Colts cruised to the division title in his first 3 yrs. They did what they had to do to win the division, if they needed 1 or 2 more wins to win the division do they win them? No one knows, that’s the point, did they play just hard enough just to win the division or was that their ceiling?
Here’s some stat talk for you stat junkies:
It was rumored that Arod and his fellow countrymen that were MLB players used to tip off the pitch that was coming late in out of hand games to pad their stats. I don’t think this happens in the NFL, but it just goes to show you how stats can be meaningless. Just about every stat that’s thrown out there can be disputed for any player.
Yeah, Colts haven’t exactly faced an uphill battle since Luck came in. Even last year, the division was a steaming pile. Luck is the better QB and prospect but he has been doing it longer and was probably always considered the better prospect. There’s got to be someone better, right? Tanny has Gase which should help even it up some though.
I agree. No way luck wins our division with brady in it. But I still would rather have Luck than tanny. Luck plays a lot better than tanny in the 4ht quarter when it really matters.
We know the answer to that since the cheats crushed them in the playoffs, and every time they’ve played Luck.
Yeah, Luck is the better QB but Gase may really push Tanny into more success. That division might finally have some competitiveness.
Luck has also had competent coaching with Pagano, Bruce Arians when Chuck was ill, then Pep Hamilton & of course Clyde Christensen.
Im really not a huge fan of any of them outside of Arians.
I don’t believe in stats unless I’m using them.
When Luck played us in 2013 he didn’t win with the game on the line even with 3 chances.
new age,
I wish I was as confident as you regarding Gase and Tanny. I think tanny will be better under Gase and I’m sure his stats will go up. But can he make plays and win games in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line? I guess we’ll see but I not as optimistic about that part of his game.
A part of that was/is coaching as well…remember Tanny had to stick to the flawed script of Philbin & Lazor as we now know.
He’s got to be better than what we had. Im not sure how well it will work but Gase has a pedigree of making QBs better. If he can make Cutler better, he can make Tanny better.
He has shown he can only to have the defense blow it. People must forget those times.
Newage, but any of those coaches seem miles ahead of what coaches we had here during the Philbin era, offensive wise I’m speaking too.
Now we got Clyde Christensen, who’s also worked with Luck & Manning…I’ll take that over the Lazor & Zac Taylor types.
I agree with that. I think Philbin and crew were really bad but I don’t think any of those guys are above average except Arians. Im not knocking Christensen but I don’t think he’s in the same league as Gase, Arians, or some other really good offensive minds. Not a bad coach, but not the same type or to their level honestly.
Maybe not, but he’s been in the trenches so to speak for a long time. Since 1980, coaching offense, QB’s, RB, WR, & TE’s.
He’s also worked under Jim Caldwell 7 Tony Dungy
& Tony Dungy…my shift key must keep screwing up…lol
@RapSheet: DE Jason Jones, former #Lions starter, is headed to Miami to sign with the #Dolphins, source said
Awesome…we’ve been anticipating this for awhile…he’s 29 6’5 275….so he’s kinda built like Kevin Dodd.
Jones was a 2nd rd pick #54 overall in 2008.
He’s healthy now the past 2 years in Detroit, with 9.5 sacks, 3 FF, & 4 PD’s over that recent 2yr period…which to me, is probably about as good as you’d get with a rookie DE like Shaq Lawson, Ogbah, or Dodd this year….
So I like the signing if it becomes official. Our DL will be deep, & aggressive….and guys like Jones, Williams & Wake can hold the fort until we can get younger guys up to speed to replace them over the next couple years.
Seems smart to me at this time given all the circumstances.
SB
You’ve been cracking me up lately. I subscribe to your 6:24PM
I’ve been making sense all day! 🙂
Sometimes you get lucky and have one of those days 😉
All this talk about coaches……….IT’S ABOUT THE PLAYERS!!!! Sorry, was I shouting?
Now we just need Dion to finish trying to get in shape and come home and we will be set at DE/OLB and should have some serious competition come training camp.
Randy
I do expect to be better with Gase. How much better, I don’t know, but I’m hoping to see a big difference
MikeE,
Players say it all the time. Coaching matters, but it’s the players who have to make plays and win games….not coaches. We had lots and lots of players last year who didn’t make plays….and the plays were there to be made…that’s not coaching….that’s shitty play.
***
I don’t buy into the idea that every coach we’ve traipsed through here over the last decade has been a shitty coach. Fans wanna hope it’s all because of the coaches because that’s easier to swallow than a team full of mediocre or bad players…and gives them hope that the new guy is “the right” guy…and it’s all gonna change! How many times have we heard that on the blogs over the past dozen years? Lol
I don’t know Randy, the NFL is a recycling bin, do you see any of our former HC’s with even as much as a coordinators job? There may be 1 or 2 coordinators out of the what seems like 20 or so in the last decade that might be still be coordinators, but that’s probably it. That tells you something.
MikeE,
Remember, lots of these guys are brought into bad teams to begin with….there’s usually a reason a team is making a coaching change, and it’s not because the team is good and winning. Is it possible they weren’t successful because the TEAM was bad?
Sure, but then they usually get second and third chances, but Sparano is just an O-line coach, and so is Philbin. You would think if NFL teams thought they just got put in a bad situation, they’d give them another shot, but it hasn’t happened.
and it only took the refs a few minutes to come up some bs call in favor of pitt. how fun this officiating is
you can go back to the islander series and watch the islander laying out lightning players the same way and no penalty call. and rightfully so, but you touch a league favorite pitt player and it is a 5 min major
Randy says:
May 13, 2016 at 7:48 pm
All this talk about coaches……….IT’S ABOUT THE PLAYERS!!!! Sorry, was I shouting?
Reply
So Randy, what you’re saying is that the Dolphins would have gone 17-0 & win back to back Super Bowls without Don Shula?
Lindy Infante or Joe Bugel would have brought Mimai championships?
I don’t buy into the idea that every coach we’ve traipsed through here over the last decade has been a shitty coach. Fans wanna hope it’s all because of the coaches because that’s easier to swallow than a team full of mediocre or bad players…
nick saban – out of the nfl
cam cameron – out of the nfl
tony sparano – from head coach twice to offensive line coach
joe philbin – from head coach twice to offensive line coach
yep, that is one hell of a list of not shitty coaches
MikeE,
I really don’t know, but do many ex first time head coaches get second head coaching jobs a lot…or even coordinator jobs? I can’t say I can think of many, but I don’t know. Also, there aren’t always a ton of coordinator jobs available every year. I think guys like Sparano and Philbin already established themselves as good, successful coaches in the NFL before they ever became head coaches. No one can dispute that. They weren’t successful head coaches, but that’s a whole different animal and really doesn’t just wipe away 30 years of doing something successfully at the highest level. A guy like Lazor who was a relative unknown as a coordinator is a different story. He had no equity built up, but that didn’t stop lots of fans from buying into him being the next good up and coming young offensive mind, remember?
gdp
Like I’ve said a hundred times….coaching matters…players matter much more. You just like to throw every coach associated with Tannehill under the bus in hopes of deflecting blame! Lol
Yes I do, we’ve seen how experienced & more importantly how great these coach are after they leave Miami. Thank you for showing me the ways of my errors. 😉
oh well that should make it easy for the refs. looks like the lightning just lost bishop for the playoffs. they gave it a good run but when your top 3 players are out you are done with
Randy is right even though everyone else is right too. Most coaches just can’t make it as a HC. and they rarely get a second chance unless they have been somewhat successful before. The players also can make or break a coach. How many QBs couldn’t make it and cost the coach his job. Ate the same time, coaches really do make a huge difference. Look at how Gase reinvigorated Manning and Cutler. Look at how Arians has been ultra successful quickly. Shula, Parcells, Walsh, Belichick. They all have made their teams better through their coaching. Of course, Brady, Montana, Elway, Manning and others have elevated their teams. You need both.
ffr,
And what about the collective…what…maybe 100+ years of successful coaching Saban, Sparano, Philbin and Cameron have had collectively just means nothing? Calling a guy a bad coach is stupid just because he failed at being a head coach or coordinator. I get criticism of them as a head coach, but that doesn’t mean they’re not good coaches.
New Age,
I agree with your comments. I guess, for me, I’ll take good players over a good coach any day…although I’d prefer both? Lol
randy,
you are right, i mean just cause two of them are out of the nfl and the other two have gone from head coach to offensive line coaches makes them probably the next HOF inductees.
Ok, I’m done. Go Dolphins!
Have a good one fellas.
randy,
you are better off just saying it is both, players and coaching, then trying to defend the past few coaches or front office personnel in any way shape or form over the players.
lmfao, and not the lightning are down their next best player after a cheap shot from pitt. all with no penalty called
Ian Rapoport Verified account
@RapSheet
DE Jason Jones, former #Lions starter, is headed to Miami to sign with the #Dolphins, source said
is this good or a who cares thing
I’d be much happier if he were a LB.