How we address the OL this year is going to determine the success, or failure of our team. We’ve been using half measures for too long, and it’s time to finally get that unit performing at a high level. Without inside knowledge from the team, I feel strongly that this O-line will be made right, or they will die trying for this season. The news last night regarding the non-exclusive franchise tag designation for WR Jarvis Landry, at least at the moment, almost ensures we’re going to have to use the draft to fix the O-line. The $16.2M salary for this season will prohibit a big free agent signing, leaving the draft as the more likely alternative. Unless of course, the Dolphins work out a long term contract with Landry. We’ll have to wait and see on that. The Dolphins will still be making quite a few cuts and restructures, but those cuts won’t add up to one of the best FA OL, so that would mean more half measures. Skip it guys, and do it right!
Andrew Norwell 6’6 325 26YO
2018’s version of Kevin Zeitler, who was last year’s best guard on the market. Zeitler was 27, Norwell is even younger at 26. Norwell, despite playing well, has started and finished each game he’s been asked to the last 3 years. He played and started 13 games in ’15, and then the following 2 seasons in ’16 and ’17 he started 16 games, so Norwell has shown he’s durable. Sounds great, right? It is, but unless we free up massive cap space, we just can’t afford to pay Norwell what he’s going to get, which is north of $11M per season, and closer to $12M He would be a fantastic pickup for the Dolphins, and finally give us a legitimate LG, which I believe would also make our young LT , Laremy Tunsil, so much better. We’ll have to wait and see how the Landry situation plays out, because until something happens on that front, it’s going to make this kind of signing nearly impossible.
************************************************************************************
Jonathan Cooper 6’2 311 28YO
Wow! Remember Jonathan Cooper? Tim had him penciled in as our 1st RD draft pick so many years ago on our live draft! Jahn and I had exhausting debates on who was the better player, Jonathan Cooper or Chance Warmack. Here we are 5 years later, and Cooper may have had the most bizarre career path ever. After being drafted at #7 by the Arizona Cardinals, Cooper broke his fibula in the 3rd preseason game, ending his season. Replaced by (He-he) Ted Larsen, Cooper was unable to regain his starting spot, and some felt the leg injury may have hurt him more than expected. Wrist injuries and knee injuries gave the job back to Larsen after Cooper finally got his shot to start.
In 2016, Cooper and a 2nd RD draft pick were sent to the New England Patriots to acquire DE Chandler Jones. Cooper NEVER played a game for the Patriots. He was waived, and then the Browns picked him up, and in ’16, all Cooper could manage was 5 games and 3 starts for the Browns. Last season, Cooper was picked up by the Cowboys, and he finally got some meaningful playing time, starting 13 games on that vaunted line. He played well last season, and due to his uneven career, he should be a relative bargain. Granted, this could easily be filed under the half measure side of the ledger, but Cooper was an extremely talented prospect, that just seems to have had some bad luck. 5 years in the NFL, 1 broken leg and 4 teams. He played well for the Cowboys last season, maybe Cooper’s star is on the rise for good now.
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Josh Kline 6’3 310 28YO
Kline was an undrafted free agent in 2013 who was picked up by the New England Patriots. Kline had to wait a couple of years before being elevated to starter, and in ’15, Kline started 14 games. In ’16, the Tennessee Titans picked him up in FA, and he’s been the starter there the last 2 seasons, playing both LG and RG. Kline is a grinder in the run game, paving the way for backs Derrick Henry and DeMarco Murray. He will be due a pretty large payday, Spotrac expects him to be around the $10M range. Right now, we’re not able to fit that in.
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Luke Joeckel 6’6 306 26YO
Yes, another fallen star. Joeckel was drafted #2 overall in the 2013 NFL draft by the Jaguars, 5 spots ahead of one Jonathan Cooper. If Cooper has had a strange career path, Joeckel’s isn’t too many miles behind. As a rookie, the green LT played in only 5 games, but in 2014, Joeckel started all 16 games for Jacksonville at LT, and then 14 games in 2015. In 2016, the LG experiment began, and the career took a detour. Once a very athletic, slightly underweight dancer at LT, now put in a power position inside at LG, didn’t work. Joeckel eventually had knee surgery, ending the experiment with JAX. The jags declined to pick up the 5th year option, and the Seattle Seahawks, desperate for O-line help gave the beleaguered OL another chance. Joeckel started 11 games for the Seahawks, but is still a work in progress. It would be hard to say Joeckel is the obvious answer to our woes here, but he would be a relatively low risk, or half measure solution. Sorry folks, the options out there just aren’t great.
************************************************************************************
Justin Pugh 6’5 307 27YO
Another former 1st RD pick, this FA seems to chock full of them. Pugh was a very successful player in the NFL, playing both RT and and LG. Pugh was an immediate starter with the Giants after being drafted at #19 in the 2013 NFL draft, yeah, THAT draft, along with Cooper and Joeckel. Cooper started all 16 games at RT his rookie season, and was a fan favorite. He played his next season starting 14 games at RT, missing 2 games. In 2015, the Giants O-line was decimated, and Pugh filled in everywhere, at RT, LG and LT. In 2016, the Giants decided to move Pugh permanently to LG, where he started 14 games. He was considered one of the top OG’s in the game that season. Pugh battled minor injuries in ’16, playing and starting only 11 games. In 2017, he started 8 games before going down with back issues, which later ended his season on IR.
While Pugh has been a great player in the league, injuries have shortened the last 2 seasons for him, but he’s a very tough, talented player. Spotrac expects Pugh’s salary to be around $6.5M, which is not an outrageous, though risky proposition.
************************************************************************************
There seems to be only one easy solid answer to our long term issue, but it’s an extremely expensive one with Andrew Norwell. All the other guys except for Kline are more risky, but might bring better rewards if they pay off. If Pugh is truly healthy, I’d take him on our team, I’ve seen him play quite a bit for the Giants. There are some older players that can give us short term help, but I’m tired of going that route. Some other possibilities are Jack Mewhort, who has been on a downslide for a couple of years, Zach Fulton formerly of the Chiefs, and Kevin Pamphile of the Bucs. Both Fulton and Pamphile have been regular starters, but I’m not sure if they are upgrades to what we have. If you have any thoughts, let me hear them . . .
Finsmob Unleashed 
Thanks for all the work you do Mike E
YW – Thanks for the kind words!
2nd!!!
I think that Stanger understands these cap matters. PROPS to him.
Ken you in a morphine fog?
What Mike you couldn’t find us a diamond in the ruff?
Can you guys please tell me if you close your browser, and then got to our website, which article appears? Thanks!
I know when I do it, the Royce Freeman article still shows.
Mine too
Never mind, i figured it out. This little Piggy keeps setting his articles on “sticky”, which means it stays on the front page no matter what comes after it. I had to move the “switch” to UN-stick it.
stangerx says:
February 21, 2018 at 1:16 pm
With all respect, think what the cap in years to come looks like plays into most big moves…..whether it be franchising Landry, paying James his 5th year option money, or restructuring Tanny or Suh. And nobody advocates for cap hell, but then not may folks who end up with bad credit card debt say they are for it either.
______
Stanger,
Teams have to deal with the cap every year and they have whole departments dedicated to making the numbers work. You have to be under the cap every year, and every year teams make it work by one way or another. The cap also increases. It’s not set in stone forever. Just saying we need to be under the cap or that the cap is mandated doesn’t do anything but state the obvious. It wouldn’t be called a cap if we could go over it. The cap doesn’t work like credit card debt either. The cap is part of the budget for your players. Contracts expire, players get cut, players restructure. It’s February. I’m not understanding what point you’re trying to make. We have a cap, we need to get under it. The team will find a way, like it does every year. Are we paying several players on the team too much? yes, no one is denying that. We’re just saying we’re not stuck over the cap as we sit in February. There are things we can do.
Absolutely agree that we will get under the cap, but exactly how we get there is of interest to me. And that includes moves we make like the big money to Landry if he sticks at that chunk and how if impacts what else we can do both this year and in ones to come.
Some of that is just financial, but say Tanny gets a redo that guarantees him for the next two years to make room for an FA or three……that has a lot of football relevance for the team going forward.
I also appreciate all the work other people do on this website. Mike just happened to have the new article.
I’m also over my post limit for the week. Catch you March!
LOL – Later SB!
Mike E — you put in some awesome research and writing. Got me wanting Norwell, but then have wanted a top G for years. Got me wondering whether would prefer Landry for one year versus Norwell and maybe a nice draft pick for another G.
We shouldn’t, and probably won’t have to make that choice. Not that I have any inside info, but i think there are two things that are happening with our team this season.
1. Landry isn’t playing for $16.2M this season, which means we’re either trading him, or signing him to a multi-year contract
2. We’re taking the O-line serious, which means either signing a legit FA OG or C and/or drafting a top OG/C in this draft.
Thanks Stanger
Now that is what I call a sticky blog
Rockphin says:
February 21, 2018 at 2:01 pm
mf13ss says:
February 21, 2018 at 9:55 am
This one upsets me… being we’d not get either of Dallas Goedert or Mike Gesicki!!! 🙂
Reply
Yeah, I know. I got carried away with need and forgot my want. Goedert went before we picked in the 2nd round in this mock and Gesicki went somewhere at the end of the 2nd round so I took the best available TE left after taking the two Olinemen.
So what happens if Landry refuses to sign his Tag? Does he have to sit out a year and then become a FA?
Reply
He would have to sit out, and he’s not going to do that. He said he’s OK with the tag, because he knows he’s either getting traded or getting a new contract
M – Do you want to sign Sitton? I don’t want another short contract, and I don’t want to give a 31 YO guard a long term contract either.
We wonder why we don’t have any continuity on the O-line, it’s because we keep replacing guys. Let’s get a young player, and let them play 5-10 years.
Is that a picture of Kline single blocking Suh? I thought Suh ALWAYS get’s doubled and tippled? (I didn’t really but it was repeated on here often)
They didn’t make contact yet, but the C or TE might help out there
maybe the TE, but he is outside the Tackle so it would be tough to get back inside to help with Suh and the Center is looking the other way. He wasn’t helping on that play.
I think he’s over the RG, which is Klein. The C actually looks like he’s eyeing Suh, but it’s hard to be sure.
Mike E. says:
February 21, 2018 at 2:19 pm
M – Do you want to sign Sitton? I don’t want another short contract, and I don’t want to give a 31 YO guard a long term contract either.
———-
NOPE! I’m not interested in Sitton. Maybe last year, but NOT this year.
OK, I was misled by your PFF post
I was wondering about that PFF twitter post. Why show the picture of the FIFTH best guard and post about the FIFTH best guard? Why not “Zack Martin had the highest grade of any guard in 2017” ??
Because the Bears just cut Sitton, so he’s now a FA.
2018 cap hell brought to you by Ndamukong Ngwa Suh.
26.1 million cap hit this year. You can’t keep going to “the bank of Suh” and pushing that money to future years. He is 31 already.
From the Phinmaniacs article Wyoming posted above;
“No one is discounting the negative impact that having an offensive line coach on crack can’t have helped the Dolphins, and former coach Chris Foerster paid dearly for that.”
You don’t SNORT crack Eldon Jenson. I just wanted to point that out, even though you don’t read this blog.
Boy Sitton is one Grizzly Adams looking MFer. Actually I think Ben would run the other way if they met in the woods.
So what tag are we placing on Landry? I keep seeing different reports.
NFL.com says non-exclusive franchise tag. That’s what I’m running with
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000916892/article/dolphins-place-franchise-tag-on-jarvis-landry
Okey dokey! Thanks.
I’d take it and not cry even a little.
Turn a weakness into a strength at LB (as long as Raekwon comes back and is what we hoped he would be) shores up the O-line, got my Tight end and a RB for Piggy, get a QB with an NFL frame and very good accuracy to groom behind T-Hill and a short yardage bruiser who can block and catch the ball in Flowers. (Flowers averaged over 16 yards a catch!)
MIAMI DOLPHINS
YOUR PICKS
1: R1P11 LB ROQUAN SMITH GEORGIA
2: R2P10 C FRANK RAGNOW ARKANSAS
3: R3P9 TE DALLAS GOEDERT S. DAK. ST.
4: R4P11 RB KALEN BALLAGE ARIZONA ST.
5: R4P30 LB JEROME BAKER OHIO ST.
6: R6P9 FB DIMITRI FLOWERS OKLAHOMA
7: R7P5 QB LUKE FALK WASH. STATE
8: R7P11 G COLBY GOSSETT APP. ST.
Great draft … I’d be perfectly happy with this one.
My only issue would be we would have a Roquan and a Raekwon playing line backer…
LOL @ if Suh will be double teamed from the pic. We we watch the games, he gets doubled often.
catching up from the last blog? LOL He is not worth 26.1M in cap hit even if he get’s doubled on every play IMO.
oh wait that was this blog. Carry on. DOH!
Is this how these parents come up with their baby’s names?
if the blue square comes up you put a random apostrophe somewhere in the name.
I like it, but can we sub Tyquan Lewis for Kalen Ballage, and then take Ballage at pick 30.
This way we can start off doing the army sound-off song like this . . .
Rae-KWON, Ro-QUAN, Ty-QUAN too,
Dolphins defense is coming for you,
Sound off – One, two
Sound off – Three, four
Sound off – One – two – three – four, One – two – THREE FOUR!
That sucks if true about Carson Wentz.
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2018/2/21/17035282/eagles-news-orthopedic-surgeon-offers-grim-outlook-carson-wentz-recovery-acl-knee-brace-rg3-nfl-qb
Not sure why that’s breaking news, it’s an outside Orthopedic surgeon giving his opinion without actually seeing the patient. I don’t give much credence to it at this point.
I guess he just knows what the diagnosis was through what he heard they found and what was done during surgery.
No worries Eggles fans. You have the QB with the highest single season passer rating in the history of the NFL…oh, wait.
Some people, like Omar, don’t think any team would be interested in trading for Landry because they’d need to give up a pick and the money to sign.
However, when you look at a team like the Browns with all that cap space and all those picks why wouldn’t they do it? The need a reliable wr and if they’re drafting a qb this year wouldn’t it make sense for them to bring in a wr who is dependable to help out their new qb?
Sure, maybe teams that don’t have the ammunition of the Browns wouldn’t be interested but if Cleveland offered up the top pick in the 2nd I’d think we would jump on that in a heartbeat.
I would have Ragnow play guard until we part ways with Pouncey in a few years. In his Arkansas career, Ragnow allowed eight quarterback hits and 27 hurries surrendered on 2,603 snaps. Incredible
Umm-hmm! 😀
We WANT either of Quenton Nelson, Billy Price, or Frank Ragnow! Two of them? Even BETTER!!!
The top target on my UDFA list is JEREMY REAVES South Alabama. Heat seeking tackle machine. (a little undersized at just over 5’10” and 205lbs) but he can hit!
The top target on my UDFA list is JALEN DAVIS, CB, Utah State.
5’9″ 170lbs? is he a ball hawk (hicup)
YUP! He’s one HELLUVA a BALLHAWK (hiccup!!!)!!! 😀
Has anyone on here seen Luke Falk play at Washington State? I’ve only seen “highlights” (which make everyone look good) and his stats. Is he projected to go so late in the draft because of his competition? At 6’4″ 225lbs with a 68.3 completion percentage and 14,480 yards passing in 4 years as a starter (3 1/2) 119 TD and 39 ints you would think he would be getting more conversation. What is the deal college football watchers?
I’d have to put his tape on to have an honest opinion of Falk. And thus far, I haven’t.
Give me +10000000 for my honesty!
Mediocre arm strength
How you feeling?
I am in a lot of pain. I have an NG tube in until Saturday. I have a drain in my neck for a while. Taking pain meds they help. Almost time for some more
I’m a big fan of his
He’s very accurate and makes tough throws
Smart qb too
Not great arm strength – Hulk hates him. Hulk smash footballs!!!
Weaknesses
Slow to see blitzers and misses hot routes. Mobility is below average. Sacked 125 times in his career. Pocket poise took downturns at various points during season. Decision making stalls out after getting through early reads. Majority of interceptions came against zone. Nonchalant short touch throws defaulting to back foot releases. Must prove he can win beyond his system. Almost 74 percent of his pass attempts were less than 10 yards.
SOURCES TELL US “He’s gotten so beat up in that offense that his health and poise are huge concerns for me moving forward. I was really high on him after his sophomore year but he hasn’t gotten any better.” — NFC team West Coast scout
Almost 74 percent of his pass attempts were less than 10 yards.
Ahhhhhh I see
Hang in there, Ken! One day you’ll remember that sucked when I had to go through that but it will be over. Think of it like a vacation, you plan it, you travel and before you know it it’s over and you’re back home and at work saying how did that go by so fast? 🙂
Mike, what’s the Mets projected pitching rotation, starters and bullpen and positional players from what you’ve been following? I have not been following up on what the plans look to be. Thanks
So if the plan is to trade Landry, you’d think they would have to make it worth it for him. I don’t see him saying, “yeah I’ll sign so I can go to Cleveland.”
He doesn’t even have to sign his tender until July…..
they’re not going to wait until July for him to sign the tender. if he isn’t traded by FA they’re rescinding the tag. they’re not going into FA with him eating up $16M in cap.
Agreed with Prof Lou.
This is what Jeff Darlington was alluding to last night, and he’s right.
Maybe Lou…
But he needs an incentive to sign and trade. At least I would. I’m sure he won’t make $16M a year anywhere but he will get a long term and more guaranteed somewhere else.
the incentive would be to get the long term deal done he’s looking for.
So if they cant work a trade, they let him walk in 3 weeks?
I’d say it all depends on who hits FA between now and then. Either way, they’re not letting him eat up $16M in cap when that money is going to be needed in FA.
To be honest, I’d be just as okay going into the season with Stills, Jordan Matthews and Isaiah Ford. Draft a guy like Lazard and add him to the mix.
I can see this being a blow it up year on the offensive side of the ball because things haven’t worked with the players they’ve got there. So, I think we’re going to see a lot of new faces on offense.
Jordan Matthews? What?
I say trade Parker if possible and sign Allen Robinson
yes, Jordan Matthews. This team has to get away from relying too much on one particular player on offense and start spreading the ball around more. when you have players at the skill positions you need to utilize all of them; not just one.
so, you get yourself at least one tight end this year and you’ve got Drake, Stills, Matthews, Ford and your tight end plus a guy like Grant who you could design a few plays for and use the talent you’ve got.
Take a look around the league at what other teams have. They all don’t have a bunch of superstars out there; they have a collection of players that they use to the best of their abilities.
Lol. Lot of money for guy who can’t quit failing tests…..
Tim
I think deGrom, Syndergaard, Harvey, Vargas, and then one of the rest, which is Wheeler, Gsellman, Lugo and Monteiro. I think the bullpen with Familia as the majority of the time closer, with Ramos and Blevins as set up men and occasional closer. There are more guys in the pen, I just can’t think of them at the moment.
I think we open with :
CF Nimmo
2B Cabrera
LF Cespedes!
RF Bruce
3B Frazier
1B Gonzalez
C d’Arnaud
SS Rosario
P deGrom
Or something resembling this
someone on Twitter just brought up the argument that ER presented with a twist. Landry could refuse to sign the tender. if he refuses to sign it and doesn’t ever sign it he sits the entire year and makes NOTHING.
In addition, a guy like Landry who’s perceived by some to have a bit of an attitude issue wouldn’t be doing himself any favors by sitting out the year.
If he wants his money it may not matter where he goes.
He’ll sign it. But why would he before July? I don’t see how a trade is even possible. There is absolutely nothing in it for him at this point. He gets a long term deal, but he was going to anyway in FA.
If anything it gives the two sides more time to work out a deal.
By refusing to sign the tender he won’t be able to negotiate with any other teams
teams don’t hit a player with the tag at the beginning of the period. they usually wait until the very end because they couldn’t get a deal done. two things I see here:
1. they’re trying to get some form of compensation for him instead of just letting him walk
2. they’re trying to keep him from signing with a competitor; they want to have some say in where he ends up
that’s a great point from a guy who’s probably high as a kite on pain killers. hope you’re doing well Ken
I don’t remember anyone ever refusing to sign a tender
I remember Julius Peppers being vocal about being franchised but even he signed his tender as I recall
Has it ever happened?
I just don’t like Jordan Matthews.
Rather take chance on Robinson and have the true #1 WR.
Matthews is a slot and I don’t like #1 wr’s anyway. An offense can be effective by utilizing all of it’s weapons. We don’t need to have a #1 wr. And Robinson isn’t going to be cheap either.
He shouldn’t be too expensive coming off the knee. He will be much cheaper than $16M!! Lol
I’d say that’s a definite.
He can negotiate before he signs. How could he negotiate if he’s already signed? If someone makes an offer we can match or get 2 first rounders.
Yep. I just don’t see any team touching him. That’s why I think he was tagged. More time?
Right. Time and a chance to see what salary slot they can get to this year on a long term deal.
I believe Ken is correct. Landry did not become a FA and, therefore, cannot negotiate with other teams unless he signs the tag. Once the tag is on him it prevents him from negotiating with other teams.
That was one of the reasons people “in the know” have been stating as a reason for the team tagging him.
Good to see ya up and around Ken.
If he signs he loses all his leverage anyway. He’s at the mercy of the Phins. There is just a lot of moving parts on this and it’s crazy. Just sign him to a deal and be done!
Ken,
It’s GRAND to see you up and around. Follow doctors’ orders, of course!
why can everyone else see Ken up and around and I can’t see him? lol
You’re looking for a huge green guy, while he’s on painkillers, he’s Dr. Banner, puny white dude. lol
Landry is free to negotiate with anybody. If they give him a deal, Phins can match or let him sign and they get the picks from other team. That’s my understanding.
not anymore. he didn’t hit FA. once the tag is slapped on him it’s a done deal.
if he signs the tag, yes.
Oy
The tag is a designation on his FA status that gives the team, by league rules, certain rights.
Tagging him wipes out probably every team that would be bringing him in for FA…..unless there is a team that is in love with him. Even then, they’d have to offer a really low deal considering all the picks they lose. Then if they do Phins match and boom….
I don’t see that happening…..
You guys are forgetting something – It’s not only teams negotiating with Landry, it’s teams negotiating with the Dolphins for a trade. Once the trade is agreed upon, The team is either willing to pay Landry the $16.2M, or they can negotiate a deal with him. That has to come AFTER they agree to terms on the trade.
No trade until Landry says there is, that’s the way it is. That’s real.
if he signs the tag he goes wherever he’s traded.
Is that right? I just posted the rules, I didn’t see anything there that states that.
He doesn’t need to sign anything. If he does, it’s all over. His 16M is now fully guaranteed and Phins own him. If he doesn’t sign he can go visit and negotiate with other teams.
if he doesn’t sign he sits out the season and gets nothing. he doesn’t get the $16M unless he signs the tag.
Yes. But he has until July to sign it. Does him no good to sign before then.
Ken push your little button a few times you’re even making Lou loopy.
Non-exclusive franchise tag: This is the most commonly used tag. When most people refer to the “franchise tag” it’s generally the non-exclusive version to which they are discussing. It is a one-year tender offer to a player for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player’s position over the last five years, or 120 percent of the player’s previous salary, whichever is greater. The player can negotiate with other teams. The player’s current team has the right to match any offer, or receive two first-round picks as compensation.
it’s assuming the player has signed the tag.
Of course, because he if he doesn’t, he’s not in the NFL for a year
here’s one of the nuances where the FA thing is concerned for Landry. If he plays hardball and doesn’t sign and FA begins and goes the team can rescind the tag and leave him out in the cold after FA is over. unless there’s a team out there with a lot of cap left to spend on him there won’t be anyone really looking to add him to their team.
and, his choices are going to be limited. so, waiting is not in his best interest.
put it this way. if Landry were shopping around for a deal in the first place and he received and signed an offer from another team and we didn’t match we get two 1st’s. so it really doesn’t matter.
No shopping can even be done for 3 weeks….
Can a tagged player still sign a new contract? Once the player signs his franchise tender, he cannot negotiate with other clubs. But he does have until July 15 to reach a long-term contract with his current team, otherwise he must play the 2015 season under the tag.
Ok, not 2015 but rul still applies. Lol
under the non-exclusive tag he can
Wrong. Once he signs, he’s done.
Mike he has until July to sign the franchise tag contract. The team can plan all the trades they want but they can’t execute a deal until Landry signs. So if Landry doesn’t like the landing spot he won’t sign and by July there won’t be any takers teams will have filled out their rosters.
it goes both ways. the market dries up for FA’s after a while. the big money deals happen at the beginning of FA.
Landry, Landry, Landry… hmmm…
We’re either going sign him long-term or trade him and at this point I think money is more important to him and I don’t blame him, so which team he gets traded to won’t matter. This is his opportunity to cash in. Miami doesn’t have to demand two 1st rd picks, it’s just the technicality of the franchise tag. We could accept a 2nd rd pick or maybe a 2nd and 5th for a team willing to pay him what he wants if we choose not to.
right. nothing wrong with the #33 from Cleveland. It’s almost a 1st. lol
All incorrect. True only if Landry Willy nilly just waltzes in the office tomorrow and signs his deal. Otherwise we pay him 16 mill or get 2 firsts.
How can it be all incorrect than say true only if? LOL
we’re NOT paying him $16M. gheesh
I really think the org wants to test what the market really is for him, how he’s valued.
I think they already have a good idea on that. We’re probably only looking at a few teams who would be willing to put out that kind of money for him and those are the one’s with the cap to do so.
The other teams were probably looking in the same area we are and would end up dropping out.
No team is going to break the bank for Landry AND give up 2 first rounders.
Face it Landry haters he’s staying here. Thank goodness.
no they’re not but that doesn’t preclude the team from trading him.
Son, come on man! I said we’ll either strike a deal or trade him. I doubt we pay him $16M for 2018. The team can accept lower compensation if they choose to. The franchise tag of two 1st round picks is a protection against a team overwhelming you with a contract you can’t match. You still own his rights so you can trade him for anything.
Oy
Landry would have to agree on the trade or he won’t sign. So why would he agree to a trade? What’s in it for him. If he doesn’t sign and Phins don’t rescind tag, they also lose out the 16M during FA……
If Landry signs tomorrow he is fully guaranteed 16M. Phins would have to then find a team willing to pay that and give up something……too rich if you ask me.
Brock Osweiler
Correct. He’s staying here and that’s good.
Son, if Landry doesn’t sign the tag he sits out the season and lowers his value the next season. That’s why the franchise tag is in place, to protect your investment, pay top dollar for the player or trade him.
He doesn’t have to sign until July….He’ll sign by then. But does him zero benefit to sign any earlier. His best interest is Phins rescind the tag back in a few weeks.
We only have the right to trade him if he’s signed. He’s not going to sit out the year why would he but at least can keep himself out of Cleveland when the FA period opens. He doesn’t have to sign his deal until July.
if he waits until July the team could rescind the tag when FA is over. the big money deals are done in the first 3 days of FA. by then, he’s not going to have much of a choice because there’s only going to be a couple teams with enough cap left over to make him an offer and they may have all the wr’s they want already so he would have to take less money in order to sign.
exactly and Landry doesn’t have the best reputation to begin with so if he doesn’t sign the tag and sits it out really hurts him quite a bit.
he needs to understand that there’s wr’s who will be available next yr in FA and also in the draft so it’s in his best interest to get something done ASAP and not wait.
He’s staying.
Deal with it.
the way this is playing out says differently. they had until March 6 to tag him and did so on the first day. Skins tagged Cousins one day before the deadline last yr.
if the team was negotiating a long-term deal with Landry they would have waited until the last possible minute to tag him because there shouldn’t have been a reason to do so.
Did you ever notice that Mel Kiper “doesn’t know what he’s talking about” until he says something someone agrees with and then he becomes an expert.
Like Rosen going to us @11? Lol!
If Phins wait til FA is over, it also cost them signing FAs. That 16 is on the books. So it doesn’t serve them to wait….even if they pulled the dick move, he’ll end up somewhere else cheaper and they would be out, what some people believe is their best player, for nothing after hurting themselves with the money being locked up.
yeah, but it goes both ways. it’s in Landry’s best interest to sign the tag and this way he has a chance to get his deal.
Right again.
He’s staying.
Say it with me everyone- Landry is staying here yay
Here is what I’d like to see happen:
1. we get the #33 from CLE for Landry
2. we trade Parker to the Jags for Smoot
3. we sign Jordan Matthews in FA
Louie Douchebag over and out
Still too much emotion in this discussion about Landry. Son, ask Cousins? LOL
Lol
Landry is the best player this team has drafted in forever. Of course we are all emotional! Lol
It is at least fun to speculate and then wait and watch what happens.
Landry is a good player with a lot of intangibles but he is not the best player this team has drafted in whatever. I’m not into getting into debates about it because it will be never ending. But he for sure is not the most talented player on the team. He’s a nice piece but not a guy your offense should go through.
it’s a proven fact that the more catches Landry has in a game the more likely we are to lose the game. so, he is talented but the team doesn’t live or die by what he does in games.
there is no proven statistic that says that Landry gives us a better chance of winning. it’s an offense. there’s 11 guys on it and they all need to be doing their jobs. that’s how you score points. not by targeting one player 150x a season. that’s worked out really well.
Don’t be sore because Landry is staying. 110 catches is only 7 a game we can still mix it up.
When other teams put the tag on a player the general consensus is that the team is keeping them. But oh no not with Landry it’s this big conspiracy and he’s going to fuck himself into playing for Cleveland.
All we can do is match a deal or get 2 firsts that’s it. And there won’t be any deals to match. There never are on franchise tagged players.
or we can trade him
Tim
Ok, not forever, but in how long? 5-10 years?
That’s forever to me!
Since JT
Now if Landry agrees to a trade and signs the franchise contract the teams can negotiate different terms because Landry will be under contract. But the receiving team is on the hook for the 16 mill on top of the compensation they give us.
That ain’t happening with Cleveland I promise you.
Brock Osweiler
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2017/03/09/brock-osweiler-trade-cleveland-browns-houston-texans/98968000/
And the percentage of his 110 catches being either a first down or a touchdown must be pretty damned high.
62%
Wow, staggering actually
Thanks
Stills and Parker actually have higher first down % than Landry.
Landry averages 6.25 receps for 63 yards 10.1 per game and 5.5 TDs per season for his career. Let the blame game begin. LOL
He was a great 2nd rd WR for us for 4 years on that contract. He’s not a game changer. We’ve gone 6-10 with him twice.
If we re-sign him and he’s happy… great. If he ends up somewhere else, I’ll still root for the team. 🙂
I agree. He is definitely not a game changer. He’s got talent but he’s a piece of the puzzle and nothing more. He’s not the be all and end all of the offense. He’s been a large part of the offense but I think it has more to do with the fact that we haven’t had an effective offense then what it says about him.
I’ll give that he plays with hear and emotion and he plays hard. But, we’re not going to win more games just because he’s on the team.
I swill my care about although the tag rules
Blah blah blah
Thrace this and trade that
Blah blah blah
All I care about is that I get use of my Landry a jersey a little longer
Lou is wanting you to purchase RT17 jersey next.
Osweiller wasn’t tagged he was a guy under contract
right, and CLE traded for him and ate his $16M in salary and got nothing for it where he was concerned. they didn’t care about him; they wanted the 2nd rd pick the Texans were giving them.
when CLE sent him packing they were still paying his salary. he was playing in DEN for free.
so don’t say CLE isn’t going to pay Landry. if they want him they will
I’m not saying Cleveland wouldn’t pay him what I’m saying is Landry won’t sign his deal unless he wants to go to Cleveland and do you think he wants to go to Cleveland? I don’t.
Lou
Last year Stills had a higher %, but not Parker. Stills also got his deal already.
Parker is invisible…..
62% of 112 is more catches than Stills or Parker had total
🖕Cleveland
It’s funny, I get fan favorites and gritty players too, but when you do FF you see production. Landry in our FFL is a 4th at best who maybe starts 6-7 out of 13 games. I know it’s FF and some of you hate it, but why is that? He isn’t on the same level production wise as many other receivers. Just because Adams got the contract he did with GB doesn’t mean it was a good deal, and Landry should get the same. Adams is also a 4th WR in FF.
The production isn’t there for big money in my mind. That doesn’t mean I disrespect his game and play style.
112 catches and 9 TDs…..how is he not getting played? If it’s a PPR league, he’s a STUD
12th on the NFL in TDs…..
Total TDs he’s 12th, not just receiving
He has spurt games. His totals are fine, but he has games that are minimal. You never know when to start him.
We can all agree that if there is an idiot out there to deal with, it’ll be Cleveland. Lol
If Landry ends up in Cleveland- he’s the idiot a well paid idiot but …
I don’t why you all think Landry being franchised is such a special thing. He played the whole season w/o bitching about a contract, and he played like a man. He’s going to do exactly the same thing about signing his tag. How many players do what you think Landry might do? Maybe players that were franchised a 2nd or 3rd time, but how many players that were tagged once went crazy about it, and didn’t sign? Look it up, there probably aren’t any. He’s going to sign it. I also think the Dolphins will try and shop him once he does, and I also think He’d be willing to go wherever it is, because he wants to play for a team that wants him. My hope is we work out a long term deal with him, that would be ideal, but on the other hand, getting something in return for him is a helluva lot better than letting him go for absolutely nothing. That’s where I’m at with this situation.
This is from NFL.com – Do you think they don’t know the rules and unaware that the Dolphins can’t trade Landry?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000916972/article/nfl-trade-tsunami-this-offseason-could-be-defined-by-deals
Jarvis Landry, WR, Miami Dolphins: Tuesday’s early placement of the franchise tag on Landry sends a confusing message. If the primary goal is a long-term deal, why not work on that contract until the very end of the franchise-tag period?
Speculation has already begun that the Dolphins will listen to trade offers, just like they reportedly did with Landry before last season. Remember that Miami used the transition tag on both tight end Charles Clay and defensive end Olivier Vernon and didn’t wind up keeping either one of them. The organization could view this franchise tag as the first step toward a possible trade worked out in the back rooms of an Indy steak house
I don’t get it either. He has to sign a deal then get traded. He has no incentive to do it unless all 3 parties are in agreement. That’s gonna be hard to do. Maybe they can get a 4th out of it when it’s all said and done. 😉
LOL – They will get a lot more than an Ajayi brought them, even though he was the best player on the team. lol
I think CLE will be back in the mix in the next few years. This offseason is the key to it and Dorsey is a good personnel guy. It’s not the same anymore. They have multiple high draft picks and cap space. They can radically change their team and they have some good talent already.
I agree – I think CLE will be no laughing stock in the near future. They have some talent, they need a QB, and a couple of really good players, which they have a chance to get in this draft. They will be different.
OD will tell you – Cleveland will always be a laughing stock
If anything this might be a sign that perhaps Suh (son dreads saying this) or Tannehill may get traded. You tag Landry so you don’t worry about losing him then make moves to clear cap space and revamp the offense.
Don’t fret. Both are going to restructure. RT17 may not need to tho. He’s now average salary and team can move on next year if they want.
I think Suh is untradeable…he has always said no problem restructuring.
I think it’s going to be fun to watch and see how this plays out. There are definitely some teams that would love to have Landry. Think about it, imagine the Giants with Landry and OBJ? The Browns with Gordon, Coleman and Landry. The Bengals with A.J. Green, Ross and Landry. The Bears who have no WR’s, I mean he will be in demand.
Ya think Jimmy G wouldn’t love to have Landry?
So in essence the partner would have to have a deal Landry wants, we sign him to it, then trade for the agreed compensation. That’s a lot of moving parts.
I don’t think it’s as complicated as you think. The $16.2M is part of the contract, but they can prorate the rest of the contract to make it an average of say $13-14M per. That’s what he wants, and there just might be a team willing to give it to him. Maybe they offer a first or two 2nd RD picks, one this year, one next, and it’s done.
Son – OD is usually right, but that team is due for something good.
ER – Are you an NBA fan? Teams make these crazy ass 3-way deals where they have to match contracts dollar for dollar. You would think that would be infinitely more difficult, but they do it all the time. Trading Landry won’t be that hard if there’s a team that wants him, and is willing to pay him, and is able to compensate us properly.
Landry has to be under contract to be traded.
You mean signing the tag? He’s going to sign the damn tag, I guarantee it.
I hear about them. But those players are under contract already. Lol
Landry will sign Mike E.
It’s when is the factor. IMO he has no reason to sign before July.
Disagree – He wouldn’t want to miss workouts with a new team if that’s what it came down to being. I don’t know for a fact that they aren’t trying to sign him for a new deal, I hope that’s the case, but if they’re not going to pay him, I think he’d rather be traded than play on the franchise for 1 season, it;s his best interests.
I hear that. Just a lot of moving parts at play.
I really don’t have any idea what is going to happen. Guess we’ll continue to hear the reports and rumors until it does.
You all know Landry – Do you really believe he’d want to play here if we don’t want him?
I’d say using the franchise tag shows we want him
It might, and I hope that’s the case.
Alright, time for me to get some sleep – Goodnight guys! Landry will sign tag pronto, and whatever will happen afterwards is going to happen.
When we tagged Soliai he wasn’t getting traded to Cleveland
Tannehill and 11 for the 4 spot?
That makes sense.
Who are you taking at 4?
Think Cle wants RT17 instead of rookie, or they taking QB @ 1?
You’d have your choice of the top 4 QBs minus the 2 taken at 1 and 2. Allen and Baker likely.
They have Kiser and Kessler so vet may suit Dorsey better as he evaluates Plus they may take a QB at 1.
They may just rescind the tag in a few weeks anyway. Have no idea what will happen.
Son
You’re cool with rookie starting the season? I’d prefer to have one behind RT17. I also think 1 will be available @11.
Or is M gonna explode because Phins go out and get Keenum? Lol
Lol, he would too
Yeah, I’d be ok. Though they could get another vet to start out.
Womens Gold Medal Game Refs are HORRID .. ticky tack calls against Canada and Blatant Non calls against US. … could be a good game if they call it even
Dilly Dilly for Ken and
Dilly Dilly fir Landry
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Stills’ slot use in NO was 16.5%, 18.1% and 21.1%. Went up to 40.8% and 47% in MIA and he leads the NFL with 11 reTD from the slot over the past two years. Get your speed guys free releases, what a concept.
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Scott Kacsmar Retweeted Carm Luongo
First downs per target since 2014
Marqise Lee – 39.0%
Jarvis Landry – 39.3%
Kenny Stills – 39.4%
Keelan Cole – 39.5%
some interesting info here
Lou – Just so you know, first downs per target is a pretty obscure stat. Of course Landry is going to have a lower percentage, because the guy is targeted 170 times a season, compared to a guy like Stills, whose high was last year at 105, or Lee who was targeted only 95 times.
It’s like saying a commuter from NJ who goes into NYC twice a week had a better percentage of being on time per trip compared to the person who commutes 5 days a week. Yeah, so what!
Just like the guy who’s targeted 150x a season is going to have more catches. That’s your take on things Mike
Of course he’s going to have more catches too. Is it my take, or just logical?
Maybe this is why Piggy is a good Lawyer?
Does that mean Landry will sign the franchise tag?
It helps
(Burp)
https://twitter.com/PhinsComNews/status/966679487579639808
https://twitter.com/MDCheer/status/919605846140583937