One piece of the puzzle was filled yesterday with the Denver Broncos trading for Baltimore Ravens QB Joe Flacco. The Ravens will receive a 2019 4th RD pick from the Broncos in exchange for Joe Flacco. If the Dolphins truly do intend to move on from QB Ryan Tannehill, they will first look to trade him, and now with Flacco traded for a 4th RD pick, the market has been set. The Dolphins probably wouldn’t get a 4th RD pick for the oft injured QB, but a 5th isn’t out of the question.
The bigger question is, what are the Dolphins intentions going into free agency, and then the draft? There are quite a few QB’s available that are average or below average, but there’s only one out there that that’s young-ish, that has potential to be more than average, and that’s 27YO Teddy Bridgewater. Nick Foles is not a FA, and the Eagles still have potential to franchise tag Foles, in order to be able to trade him. There is some controversy regarding that, and it’s understandable. Foles had a buyout clause in his contract, which was a hefty $20 contract, the buyout being Foles would have to pay the Eagles $2M to become a free agent. Considering the fact that the $2M should buy his fredom, it doesn’t seem fair that the Eagles should then be able to restrict his freedom by tagging him. We’ll see how this plays out.
Tyrod Taylor, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Case Keenum and Josh McCown are all QB’s I’d say for all intents and purposes are about equal to Ryan Tannehill. In my mind, it would make no sense to pay Tannehill $13.24M, and then turn around and give another $8-10M to one of the aforementioned QB’s. The only QB that could make sense is Bridgewater, if the organization felt like they make Bridgewater into a playoff caliber QB, and Bridgewater can make us a playoff caliber team. I don’t think he can, and I wouldn’t go that direction. I don’t think we need a bridge QB, we have 2 young QB’s on the roster, and I hope to have a 3rd after the draft.
Luke Falk, Jake Rudock, and whichever QB we snare in the draft. Let’s face it, we need a great QB here if we want to elevate this team. None of the guys in the previous paragraph are taking us there. Don’t waste time and money, draft the right QB, and run with him! Start the process now! We can draft another QB in 2020 if this QB looks like a dog, but hopefully that’s not the case. How many young QB’s do we see play every season? At least 4 or 5. Let’s be one of those teams. Just because Tannehill didn’t pan out, that’s not a reason to avoid drafting a QB, it’s the biggest reaso to go ahead and do it!
Finsmob Unleashed 
Mike Gesicki – $780 K
It’s difficult to imagine a worse rookie season for Miami’s highly-touted, athletic, second-round draft choice. His inability to figure out the footwork from seemingly every alignment, stumbling through his routes, and getting tossed around while in-line should’ve been the most perplexing part of Gesicki’s trial season – but it wasn’t.
Durham Smythe – $470 K
Showing better than his fellow rookie, Smythe’s playing time was not reflective of the on-field performance. Smythe is incredibly unpolished as a pass receiver, but he made some hay as a run blocker down the stretch (see Brandon Bolden’s long touchdown run against the Pats).
New England’s run-heavy scheme took off this year when the tight ends squeezed down and acted as additional offensive linemen. This was the area where Smythe excelled at Notre Dame and, frankly, he has more upside in this offense than Gesicki.
Then how about Adam Gase ALSO mismanaging the use of Kenyan Drake, man?
Tellin’ ya Rock, Smythe is a trophy TE.
https://www.menshealth.com/health/a26324524/childhood-trauma-how-to-deal/
I mean i dont mean to belittle this guys experience, but is this the pussified world we now live in where one walking into a bathroom and calling you a faggot can derail your entire life and be the source of your drug abuse and psycological trauma….really?
My football coach called me a pussy once but it changed me for the better. Never gave him the reason to call me that again.
What was on or around his balls that caused the whole thing to happen?
I can’t believe how he offended he was by the kid who said something walking in on him and never resolved what was wrong with his balls?
Am I missing something? – this is such a weird story
Multiple means smart players who are very disciplined and able to adjust play to play. You don’t have enough practice time in the NFL to get all this stuff down. You need guys who can learn quickly and think on the fly. It also takes guys on the field who can communicate adjustments correctly and get everyone on the same page. We are talking a long transition/learning phase….and probably some guys who simply can’t cut it.
That’s basically what O’Shea was saying. The players all have to be on the same page. Both offense and defense will be built with players that fit what they want to do but also it will be about what the players on the team do well. It’s not a static system, it’s fluid based on game plans week to week and utilizing players’ strengths.
Naples posted: “He (Chad O’Shea) said recently a QB who has leadership and accuracy is paramount. I would also say that football IQ has to be added to that. Look at the elite QB’s like Marino, Brady, Brees, Rogers, P. Manning. Their leadership and accuracy are off the charts. IMO, what makes them elite over franchise guys like many other teams starting QB’s is their football IQ and their ability to read defenses in a split second.
I don’t really see that in any of these QB’s this year (Jones maybe). So, I would not trade up for any of them this year. I do see that ability in and would trade up for Georgia QB Jake Fromm in 2020. He played very well against Alabama in the SEC Championship last year only to have their defense lose the game for them.
Meant to add that is why I would not mind trading back for more picks next year and agreeing with what TIM was talking about and Fromm would be my reason to do it.
D,
If they are gonna play the sort of defense they say they will, then they want DE/DT who are tweeners, so you can move your pieces around.
+100000000000000000000000000000
By the way, that’s NO disrespect to my guy D, whatsoever. I just happen to agree with Randy, BIG TIME on this.
Patrick Graham was talking about what he looks for in DL and how he coaches them. Heavy hands, active hands, eyes in the right place, footwork and leverage. Being able to adjust to misdirection.
I think they may still want to bring in one big body guy…….a guy who can occupy multiple blockers and clog up the middle if you want to.
A 1 tech DT would be as good as your traditional NT space eater and have the ability to give us an inside pass rusher on 4-3 downs, out of the 1-Tech. Id look at Danny Shelton to be honest. Familiarity with the system, not going to be a very expensive player.
I thought this was funny what Patrick Graham said. If all 11 have to be in a 3 pt. stance, it may look weird, but if that’s what will help us win the game, we’ll do it.
He also shot down Omar telling him the body types for each 4-3/3/4 scheme. Graham said I’m not disrespecting what you’re saying, but I don’t necessarily agree with it, finishing it up with agree to disagree. LOL
I dont think Randy and i were in disagreement. I was saying the same thing as him, that we are looking for the bigger bodied DE types.
You want scheme flexible players, they dont have to necessarily have to fit a body type they just have to be able to do their job if that requires them to play as a 3-4 or 4-3 DE/DT/NT
LBs too. Sometimes they’re playing like DEs, playing in box, cover, rush, play the run.
When asked about if the defense will run 4-3 or 3-4 Graham said yes. We’ll be multiple. It’s all about spacing.
D,
Strictly IMO, I think you are EXACTLY right about a 1-tech DT. We both have spoken about this in the past, and we both agree.
Seems to me many here don’t understand the difference between techs. I applaud you for knowing the differences, my man.
Why do you think many don’t understand it if they care to know? It’s not complicated. 1-tech DT is slightly off center but not quite on the guard. 0-tech is right over the center. Football isn’t complicated. At the end of the day it’s about executing and winning your battle. If that doesn’t happen it doesn’t matter your size, it’s more about being a good football player. Godchaux played 1-tech often and held his own.
Our struggles on defense were mainly due to miscommunication and young player mistakes – misreads. Some of that has to be on Burke. Why were they so often confused? Maybe Burke did too much overthinking instead of letting guys just play.
My Bro, it seems that many (and you in particular) don’t understand the differences between a NT and a NG. I’m just sayin’, based on many comments made prior to today.
Charles Clay just got cut.
Do we want to being him back?
We have 3 young TEs in Gesicki, Smythe and O’Leary. I’d roll with those guys and evaluate moving forward from there.
D,
I just think we need a big body guy. I specifically didn’t use 0 tech/1 tech on purpose. We just need a guy who can be a presence in the middle. It’s up to the coaches how they use him and what they ask him to do. Obviously, a big guy who can occupy multiple blockers AND penetrate the A gaps would be ideal.
Those big bodied guys are also becoming a thing of the past if that’s all they are. Offenses have changed so much. You’re not trying to stop Earl Campbell and Christian Okoye anymore. DL need to be able to play laterally and chase from behind. Many of those big bodied guys are done once the play is past their spot. If you find a guy who’s 6-4 340 who’s smart, can move well and run, great! Not a lot of them out there.
Tim,
Yep, I would agree with that. D mentioned Danny Shelton, who’s probably a good example.
They also played Shelton at DE when using 3 down lineman.
I was told that practice makes perfect
Then I heard that no one was perfect
So I stopped
Be not self-deprecating Rock. You rock.
GOT A KICK out of Tim’s reference to Christian Okoye. As I recall, Okoye’s nickname while playing for the Chiefs was “The Nigerian Nightmare!” He played college ball at Division 3 Azusa Pacific, where he absolutely DESTROYED those smaller D-3 linebackers who tried to tackle him. But one day, in a VERY important game against Denver, Okoye was handed the ball on a fourth and a foot play ONLY to be knocked back half way to Lagos by Broncos’ DB Steve Atwater!! After the play, Atwater had NO IDEA where he was after this ultra violent collision. All he knew was that EVERY DENVER FAN IN MILE HIGH STADIUM WENT ABSOLUTELY NUTS at the sight of elephantine Okoye staggering backwards and collapsing BEHIND the line of scrimmage!! I consider it THE BIGGEST OF THE BIG HIT PLAYS I’ve ever seen!!
M13, NT vs. NG? Please… give me a seminar on the depth of those two positions. I’m still struggling with those couple of feet. I know Jordan Phillips would be a HOF 1-tech guy if only we used him like that. The problem is we did and he is who he is – an average interior DL who has talent but is not self-motivated. Is that what you’re referring too?
mf13ss says:
February 15, 2019 at 4:52 pm
Then how about Adam Gase ALSO mismanaging the use of Kenyan Drake, man?
________________________________________________
I don’t think Drake was mis managed, it was more about his inability to run btwn the tackles that limited his playing time.
Best playmaker on the team. Sometimes he only touched the ball 7-8 times. You can continue with your Larry Csonka days but that’s not what M13 was referring to. Drake was under utilized and still scored 9 TDs. 5.9 yards per touch. Hopefully the new staff takes advantage of his skills.
Still false No matter how many times you say it
BailBondMike says:
February 15, 2019 at 5:43 pm
My football coach called me a pussy once but it changed me for the better. Never gave him the reason to call me that again.
There are two kinds of people in this world. The ones who will cry and quit and those who say FU try me again.
I really liked Falk coming out of college so I am secretly rooting for him.
I bet if we cut him, Gase brings him up to NY.
MikeE, is a trophy TE as good as the image it brings to mind? (IE my old avi before snowflakes made me change it)
Tim Knight says:
February 15, 2019 at 6:25 pm
When asked about if the defense will run 4-3 or 3-4 Graham said yes. We’ll be multiple. It’s all about spacing
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Yes and the spacing to stop the run is not 5 yards between the tackles and only a MLB and S in the middle.
Thank you for the spacing cmoment.
Last year it was like an arrow would appear sorta like that yellow line, only the arrow would point to that big gap in our DL and it would be labeled “run right through here for an easy 6-8 yds.”
Still curious to know what was wrong with that guys balls
What?!!! Not hairy enough? LOL
Son……. Phelon….Feb 26 is a tuesday, about 2 weeks from now,
a good day to get a round of golf in. at Forest Lake.
let me know and i’ll set the tee time
I really liked Falk coming out of college so I am secretly rooting for him.
—————————————————–
Rock, same here. I even mocked him to us last draft in the 4th & 5th rounds a few times. I didn’t feel like getting scoffed at or put the jinx on him so haven’t said anything . LOL
Rock
C’mon Wyo – Yer slipping!
https://twitter.com/MDCheer/status/1096498667022925824
I love hardwood floors.
O Rob – I’m back in Virginia for a few weeks, so no can do.
Going to be interesting to see what we can do with the highly underachieving Carradine; whether he could be one of those guys like the Pats sign that does better than he’s done elsewhere.
His salary will probably a low end contract so not a lot of risk on our part. He got passed on the depth chart last season on the Raiders, we’ll see what he does here.
IMO, the only qb who’s being considered a 1st rd pick that you HAVE to take if he falls to #13 is Haskins. None of the others are worth it. If you watched the development of Haskins from ’17 to ’18 you would see a big improvement, even from the time he stepped onto the field at the beginning of this last season to the end of the season.
As the season went on he got better and better and the other positive about him is he is young. Yeah, he needs to develop more but so does every other qb in this draft class.
If you look at Lock he actually took a step back going from his one read Baylor-style offense to a pro style offense. He throws a lot off his back foot and loses velocity. He makes a lot of questionable throws as well and he underthrows his receivers a lot.
He has some athleticism to him and he’s got an arm but, to me, his comp is Mariota.
Jones looks like another Tannehill out there, if anything.
Haskins isn’t the athlete some of the other guys are. He’s a pocket passer with a strong arm who has good accuracy and ball placement, he understands an offense, calls his own protections and goes thru progressions well. The great thing about him is it doesn’t take him long to make a decision and once he does he gets the ball out fast. He has shown the ability to look off the safety and stand in there under pressure and still deliver the ball. Again, not the complete package, but his ceiling is probably the highest among all the prospects this year.
and to continue with my post on the qb’s, I’d feel better if we got someone like Stidham if he were there later or Ta’amu or Blough than I would about taking Lock or Jones in the 1st rd.
I agree with your QB analysis in above 2 posts.
Feb 14 11:23pm ET
Miami Dolphins WR Danny Amendola could fill the slot receiver role for the Detroit Lions in 2019 because of his connection to head coach Matt Patricia, in the opinion of Bill Barnwell of ESPN.com.
Lazy speculation, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Amendola was cut, or maybe even traded. More likely cut
I agree with Mike E. … very lazy, and stupid too since if he has a connection with a defensive coach Patricia from their time with the patsies*, then why not with the defensive coach Flores?
asinine
not to say he won’t leave here … not to say he won’t go there, but the reasoning is specious … and we are even getting Brady’s QB coach and the pasties* WR coach, both of whom probably appreciated all Danny did for them.
Maybe they lost respect for him though, and that is why he got let go up north.
hmmmm ….
In his recent interview O’Shea specifically mentioned Amemdola as an obvious player that we know well. There didn’t seem to be any hard feelings the way he talked about him. Not sure what the plan is for him though.
Yeah okay, for a decade. LOL
While watching the Super Bowl,I heard a very astute analyst (Romo) say that NE succeeds on defense because their DL guys all work vertically, not laterally.
He said that Chicago had almost accidentally discovered that that was the way to beat the Rams.
He said NE’s natural defensive strike force is directly through YOUR natural lane spacing upfield. He said that is why they get so many TFL and sacks from so many different guys instead of one edge rusher getting 12.
I also read where their bigs in the middle are key to that by 3 of them each play getting on a shoulder of a OL and piercing the pocket. They then teach the MLBs to watch for a split second to see who has their man turned and shoot that gap. Bingo. Major disruption.
The article (and I think Romo) said that is why they seem to never give up setting the edge, because THEY set the edge by getting up the field (even Chung and the CBs do this) instead of trying to defend the edge by sliding with the blockers to “string out the play” as it is sometimes called. This means it si almost impossible to get the corner and the RBs always are forced back into the pursuit. The Pats always seem to have these huge LBs who wallop and swallow RBs instoead of catch and drag, like some I know who were “coached” by Burke.
I do believe that Clemson DL is trained to do that, too, which is why it is a nightmare to play them, becuase their seems to be a different guy blowing up the play before it gets started almost every down. That’s why it seems like ALL the Clemson DL guys are good, because they are all trained to win their gaps and then those big LBs and huge Safeties come knifing in to clean up anything that getrs missed.
That’s why some of the guys for Clemson do not make it in the NFL, too. They were playing team defense and made plays off that. They can’t always beat a guy. They are trained to beat a gap.
New England always seems to have a bunch of “no-name” defenders who are a greater sum than their parts.
We in Miami used to do that, once upon a time.
yikes
multiple typos
most egregious is “their” for “there”
pls excuse as I am at the community pool and there are multiple distractions.
LOL, many of us type what we’re sounding out and a their becomes a there. No biggie!
naples,
Penetration has always been a means to disrupt an offense. These guys, including Romo, act like they are just discovering something new. It’s not. The thing the Rams didn’t do was adjust because there are ways to combat a defense that is shooting gaps and trying to get upfield. The Rams just kept trying to run their same offense. Hurley could have been used effectively against that sort of defense by throwing him screens and using him on delayed handoffs.
Goff missing wide open receivers hurt them as well.
Tim,
Yeah, Goff didn’t have a good game…partly because of how NE was getting depth in the pocket, but the Rams not adjusting was their biggest mistake. They never made NE pay for how they were playing and adjust themselves.
Yeah Sean McVay admitted he was out coached and didn’t do a good enough job.
Yeah I thought Romo should have said to run a draw.
I’m only running through this because of where our new HC came from.
I’m not stupid enough to think everybody here just now heard of it.
My point was belichek finds something the other team Can’t handle and just keeps doing it till they adjust.
So why did McKay not adjust?
Multiple.
Pats line up in various formations so you think its different every time but it’s not.
Until you adjust, then he lines up same and does different.
Keeps QB and OC off balance.
Are we after Carr?
I doubt it. Thinking Grier just felt a quality personnel man in Reggie McKenzie was available.
A good thing about this hire is Reggie McKenzie was fired by the Raiders in December so he’s still in the know with the league. Not like he’s been out of the game for awhile. Now he brings all his intel with him to Miami.
Naples, Belichick is a master game planner. He does whatever he feels is needed to win each game. Nothing is off the table. Against one opponent he may play a lot of zone and max coverage. For another a lot of blitzing and man coverage. Pass all day against this team, run all day on that team. Then during the games he’ll switch it up a few times and throw in another wrinkle. He always looks to take away a team’s strengths.
Hopefully Flores and other coaches from NE learned quite a bit about that and brought it to Miami. The term “multiple” is key. They want a team that can morph for each opponent that gives them the best chance to win that game. It’s about matchups. It’s not a static system, it’s fluid.
That is what I said.
I know, I was adding my opinion to the discussion. I wasn’t telling you as if you didn’t know, I was addressing you because you brought up the topic. 🙂
The McKenzie hire was exceptional and one that our old FOs would have never attempted. I’m really liking the talent Grier has already brought to this team and none of these hires hurt our salary cap. This team is loaded with scouting talent now. Let’s hope it translates.
Coaches don’t effect the salary cap. I do see some serious cap savings coming from the roster though. House cleaning is coming. Young players on solid contracts remain.
Should have said and executives.
Lol, Tim, that was kinda my point.
I dunno, maybe it’s just me… but I’m seeing a top-heavy FO being built again. If it works, all good. If it doesn’t work, it’s insanity. JMO
And that’s no diss to Reggie McKenzie (who I really do like, by the way), but there’s already too many minds to get in the way of one another. Are we going to run this team by consensus opinion from the brass? Let’s say Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie strongly agree on a matter, and Chris Grier strongly disagrees… there’s going to be second-guessing galore in-house.
YES, Grier gets final say as the GM and the power structure is now much different (thank God!). But does Grier really need Allen and McKenzie? It just seems like more ‘red tape’ to me. This causes conflict, confusion, and ultimately chaos. I say this as someone who’s worked for a Fortune 500 company for many years, and believe me, it seldom works out.
Really? Grier is the final voice. He’s been given that power by Ross. McKenzie is pro personnel and Allen college personnel. Why would they conflict?
The football team is lead by Grier and Flores. They take all intel in from assistants and build the team. They make the final calls. They’re trying to build a winning organization. Why look at it like some sort of coup in the making?
Yes, Grier gets the final say, as I stated above.
Tim,
I suppose I just see it differently than what you do, man. I really hope I’m wrong, and it certainly wouldn’t be the first time I’m wrong. Again… if it works, all good. If it doesn’t work, it’s insanity.
MF13,
I like it but I definitely see your point of too many chefs in the kitchen, chiefs not indians,etc. I’m impressed though that Grier is bringing in talent that would intimidate many GMs. We stole a top guy from Buff who helped build the Cheifs, and we got a Wolf disciple as well. https://www.sbnation.com/2015/8/4/9091639/ron-wolf-hall-of-fame-packers-raiders-nfl-canton
As you said, it can definitely still not work but the work Grier has done so far is miles beyond what I saw from both Ireland and Tannebaum and it makes me excited. Our FO has talent!
Why is having a lot of talent evaluators an issue? Grier makes the final call. I don’t get the problem with it unless you believe they will all be back stabbers. And why them? Do other teams not have people in those same positions?
TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING COMPLETES A 3 GAME HOME STAND SWEEP, crushing Calgary 6-3, Dallas 6-0 and Montreal 3-0. Vasilevsky shuts out last two opponents as Bolts out score their foes 15-3.
Local fans hoping Tampa Bay’s not peaking too soon. That’s a nice worry!
in the Stanley cup who do you take? Tampa Bay or the field?
New Age,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply above. I absolutely hear ya… this could truly be GRAND for us! I don’t want to get too low, nor too high… we’re just going to have to wait and see how it all works out. Again, I hope my gut is wrong what with my 8:27 PM post earlier.
MF-13, It’s like this Blog, Piggy’s in charge but Mike calls the shots, Stanger is the enforcer and everyone answers to Ken…
speaking of Ken where’s he been lately???
I hope everything is good with him
I’m not sure if Miami has interest in Haskins but one way to get him is to send Howard and their #13 to Oakland for Oakland’s early pick.
Oakland needs CB help in the worst way and what better CB could be out there than Howard still on his rookie deal at 25 years old.
i dont think this FO will keep Howard anyway, he seems to be their best bargaining chip for future consideration.
No Rob, No! LOL, we are trying to rebuild and IMO we all ready need another CB. This would be a set back. I am on board with possibly trading Jones.
ORob, That is an interesting proposition. Although I would like to see them get a better deal for Howard. Be nice if Miami became the team screwing the other guys in trades.
Now Jones and the 13th to Oakland would be about right.
There are many chefs in most professional kitchens
That infamous cliche is really about home chefs
As long as everyone is on the same page it works well
And everyone is on the same page by communicating
That’s how teamwork comes together
Of our FO can’t work with one another – how do you expect our tram to ever do it
We have good people up top now
worrying if they can work it out is a luxury
Imagine the alternative – we can be screaming “who the fuck is Dowell loggains” again
And professional kitchens cook a lot of pork, no matter how much squealing happens.
I would probably do Howard and the 13th to Oakland for their early pick
I think Oakland should throw in their 2nd round for that as well
But I don’t think Oakland wants time acquire vets right now
They are focused on rebuilding and picking up young players
It’s not a great year for CBs though
So maybe they make a push like that
Howard is young. 25 and proven at an premium position. Miami should get a 1st for him, but I could live with a 1st round swap and their second.
Initially i said no to Murray, because well You know, most successful NFL. QB,s are 4-6 inches taller than he.
But I figured I would research him anyway, get a feel of where he might land, and will he be a QB that succeeds regardless of his height, like Russell Wilson?
I changed My mind, I now believe Murray is going to be an excellent NFL QB, and looks like He would be an excellent choice for our number 13 pick .
Many mocks have Miami selecting Murray, because of 2 reasons.
1. Miami needs QB, this year, Waiting is something we have tried before , it’s kicking the can down the road and ignoring our biggest need.
2. Many talent evaluators at all levels believe Murray can excel and will.
He didn’t win the heismann because he was short, he won it because he was the best football player in the nation, he earned it.
Murray is dynamic, a world class athlete that understands the position and how to play it.
Many Questioned if Mayfield was big enough, But the browns gave him a chance, and he did better than the previous 26 QB s they have drafted.
Murray played for the same team Mayfield did, Oklahoma,
and beat Mayfields passing records in his first year as starter.
So it is of course very possible for Murray to make it in the NFL, if Mayfield did, because both are shorter than what the prototype is, but both have ways to play at a high level anyway.
There aren’t any 7 foot tall QB,s for a reason, a QB needs to be able to elude the rushes to get the pass off.
A giant immobile QB would get destroyed, that’s why there isn’t any,
and yet there ARE short QB,s in the NFL
I know many would bitch if Murray were selected, but given a chance I think their bitching would turn to praise,
Murray is the best athlete in the draft, and quite possibly the best QB also
Flip side, Tannehill IS the prototypical size that most teams covet in their QB search, and yet we are ready to run him out of town!
Height doesn’t make a college WR be an excellent NFL QB
Excellent QB,s at the ncaaa level have it hard enough to make the transition, but if You can’t play QB at the NCAA level, there is little chance the light comes on at the next level.
Tannehill isn’t the answer for us, , not because his height, but because he isn’t an NFL franchise QB
Btw Murray had an OL that averaged 6’5″, and yet he had no trouble finding receivers and completing passes over their heads, and over many defenders taller than He.
And NO one catches Murray in the open field, No one is fast enough.
He will be the fastest QB in the NFL
To many ??? with Murray for me David. I get the feeling he feels like he is “the shit” and if he does not win the starting job off the bat he may say screw it, I’m going to play baseball.
Look below, he forfeited his signing bonus
After the baseball draft last year, Murray agreed to a minor league contract with Oakland for a $4.66 million signing bonus.
Murray won’t be receiv Nf this money, because his heart is in football, not baseball.
It’s very tough to question his commitment to football , when the man obviously sacrificed a big signing bonus, and a potentially ridiculously lucrative career in baseball.
I believe Murray could make more money in baseball versus the NFL, but never question a mans heart, he’s doing what he loves.
Tim Tebow, as we all know is a former NFL. QB that plays baseball now, told Murray to follow his heart, good advice imo
Tebow,s heart is with baseball, so that’s where He is and should be
Murray is not a 1st round QB for me but if he slips, maybe I give him a shot. I could actually see someone reaching for him like the Jags.
There were people saying Murray was too short for NCAA too, but he beat Mayfields records, and won the heismann anyway.
Yes, there are questions on Murray, but there are also questions on 100 percent of the draftees, that can ultimately only be answered, AFTER
they get their shot at the NFL.
I could be wrong on Murray, of course, we though RT was the answer too, or hoped he was.
but at this point I don’t see any reason why he can’t succeed.
There were a lot of questions on RT, and he answered them unsatisfactory.
We won’t get a QB by selecting another Dion Jordan or Charles Harris, we have to make the effort , ,and get a QB by selecting one
It’s tough to predict who Miami will select, because this is a rebuild year, with a new coach.
But what did bellicheat have in his first year at NE? A Franchise QB rookie.
Of course This doesn’t mean we will do the same, but it’s a safe assumption that a rookie HC doesn’t want a QB like Tanehill, the coach killer
He will want HIS QB, not a guy that’s a lost cause at this point
Brady went 1/3 for 6 yds. his rookie year.
The Pats went 5-11 with Bledsoe in Bill’s first year, his 2nd 5-11 yr in a row.
But I get your point.
What I’m getting out of what the team is doing by bringing in all these guys to help out is they have respect they didn’t have in the past. I don’t think it’s a matter of a front office that wouldn’t have brought in these guys in the past; it’s a matter of they wouldn’t have had the opportunity to do so.
There’s people out there now who WANT to be part of the Phins organization whereas, in the past, they wouldn’t have wanted to be the slightest bit associated with this team.
I’m loving it.
Good points Lou. Very, very possible but I just don’t see Tannenbaum even entertaining the idea of McKenzie for us to even get to this point. Either way, Ross will have a lot more experience telling him why we are picking certain players with such an all-star staff.
Everyone in the NFL is fast. 300lb d linemen are fast. So let’s say Murray is doing his thing like he did in college where he takes off with the football and has a safety coming at him and he slows a bit to make a move of the safety with a 300+ lb d lineman bearing down on him from behind.
If that d lineman hits him from behind is he going to get up?
That’s my biggest problem. And you can’t say it’s not going to happen because it will. He’s going to get hit clean by a player a lot bigger than he is and then what happens?
RGIII
Injuries can happen to anyone,
Tannehill missed a ton of games , even with his superior size to Murray.
if he had greater mobility maybe he could have done better.
And there are no 300 pound lineman that can catch Murray in the open field, even corners can’t do it and they are way faster.
I totally agree that Murray could be injured, all QB get injured, remember Marinos Achilles?
Btw Murray isn’t a RG 3 imo, Murray is a pocket QB, that can also run faster than anyone else on the field.
I can’t post from work anymore so I’m slacking off!
I have several problems with Murray that make me nervous picking him early. First, as Lou has stated for a while, he’s small and just can’t handle lots of hits. Second, while both him and Mayfield succeeded wildly at OU, their situations are far different. Mayfield was a 4 year starter. in college and Murray was a 1 year starter. Mayfield had success with different starting units every year, we don;t know about Murray. Mayfield could hold an entire room with his charisma, Murray couldn’t even hold a decent with Dan Patrick. Third, running QB we’d have to change entire offense to fit his skills. Not only that, but could he ever change how he plays? Kaepernick couldn’t. RGKnee couldn’t. Vick wasn’t good at it.
Next, one article showed how wide the OU OL was so that Murray could have passing lanes. That wouldn’t work in the NFL and many times he had to create space so that he could throw. This is an issue Belichick would exploit easily. We’d have to be more like NO with Brees than the multiple offense Flores wants. That’s the biggest issue. Does Murray fit in our new offensive plan and would they fit the entire offense to fit Murray? Because they’d have to fit the entire offense around Murray, and then try to change it enough the next year so that we wouldn’t be an easy gameplan every week. Can Murray do that? I’m not sure he can. Not pick #13 sure at least.
I agree with all your points, but what turned me against him forever was that interview.
If he had just not answered but said cool shit, fine.
OR
If he had answered all the questions, but boring, then fine.
A QB can’t be both lazy AND not know what to say.
A QB can’t have no charisma AND be a dickhead.
If he had the skillset and stature of Phillip Rivers, I still wouldn’t want him after that debacle.
All he has is athleticism. Might as well get Tonya Harding.
Oakland needs a lot more than a corner. They are picking 4th. LOL
wow Reggie McKenzie. Way cool.
Not only a proven track record as a GM (Gruden’s ego trip is not a valid complaint,), but a star DE in the NFL. Right where we need the emphasis right now.
Draft DL, scheme DL, and coach up our DL.
That’s our 3 biggest needs. (Actually all the same need.)
(OK QB, too, but that’s in the hands of Brady’s QB coach and patsies* WR coach.)
Why on earth would we trade away our best players?
A bird in the hand …
I hope we don’t trade Howard. He’s the best player on the team and he’s only 25.
Best young players! Old players bring back young talent, and that’s what you do in a rebuild.
Good to see ya back Wyo, and of course the cheerleaders too! Get a new effing job where they allow you to do your real job! 😛
I don’t see it as too may chefs in the kitchen. All these people are taking the job aware of the power structure, it’s just a larger sounding board. Different perspectives and different expertise hopefully yields better results. No reason to get your panties in a bunch until it fails. That’s how I see it.
It’s no different than a HC hiring his coordinators and asst. coaches. GM’s hire their assistants too. Everyone in the building knows Brian Flores is the HC and Chris Grier is the GM. They both ask their assistants to do a job and that’s it.
It’s true that everyone in the NFL is fast, but that doesn’t mean that Murray isn’t faster than 99 percent of the NFL players, and would be the fastest QB in the NFL
there aren’t any questions of Murrays speed, he’s blazing fast, could run circles around Tannehill
I know you’re in full blown criticize Tannehill but he can run circles around most NFL QBs. Is that what you want in your QB, a guy who run circles around other QBs? How about leadership and passing against opposing defenses, can Murray be that? Also can Murray take the hits and keep getting back up?
Murray has answered these questions at every level so far, only time can tell how good will his career be.
We don’t necessarily have to have Murray, I just researched to find out who and what he is.
I initially rejected him as a too short running QB, but after evaluation changed my mind. He is a complete QB, can do everything a NFL does, except be 6′ 5″, he can’t do that.
Leadership requirements means carrying your guys from the QB position, he has shown these traits albeit at the NCAA level.
Marino had a lot of questions too, everyone does. Marino was the sixth QB taken because of so many questions.
All Marino could do is spend 17 years answering questions, and he sure did.
The questions on all the QB in the draft concern Me, we might bust on anyone of them. So then why bother? Because we need one, and it’s tough to answer the questions without giving the guy a chance to prove himself.
How can Murray prove He can handle the NFL? By how he performs in it, so it’s too early to say how he will perform other than to say he looks the part on film.
It’s risky to pick Murray at 13, I know this, but it’s also risky to not pick a QB, and hope a bandaid or backup gets the job done.
We have to pick our poison, swing for the fences so to speak, if we want to succeed in our search for the next franchise QB of our team
Murray isn’t a running QB, he’s a pocket passer that just so happens to be a world class athlete and outrun defenses.
If Murray was just a running QB, I wouldn’t want him, and don’t think the team would either.
He is very comfortable in the pocket, something RT isn’t, and can deliver accurate passes downfield.
He mainly runs when the receivers can’t get open, and defenders are closing in, I don’t think a NFL coach would use him as a running back because of obvious reasons, if they did, then yes he could get banged up like anyone else
Running speed is not Ryan’s problem. He’s very fast…and even shifty.
I said shifty, not
N/m
Forfeiting his bonus was just one decision. One bad decision I think he will regret. That doesn’t make him committed to football. It means temporarily he’s going to try football, until he fails or gets knocked out of the sport for good.
I will say Murray is intriguing. He obviously can run and he does have a good arm. My concerns are his size and does he have leadership skills. Yeah his interview with Dan Patrick was bad but maybe it just wasn’t a good day for him. Who knows? He’ll be put through the wringer at the combine.
Yeah, story isn’t over yet, I just hope we don’t go for the hype. We don’t need uncertainty at QB, and I think he brings that.
LB just ran their Top 100 Players for 2019. Mets had 6 players in the Top 100
10. Jacob deGrom
52. Edwin Diaz
54. Robinson Cano
55. Brandon Nimmo
60. Michael Conforto
79. Noah Syndergaard
Nimmo?
Tim – Yes, Nimmo! He had an OBP of over .400, he hit 17 HR’s, scored 77 runs (with an anemic offensive team) and defensively was excellent!
Hey I hope they’re right on everyone. 🙂
What’s the Mets projected lineup or is it still too early?
Tim – Depends on whether Alonso cracks the lineup opening day, or just a few weeks later, but in any case, they are going to have multiple lineups to get all their secondary players in, like Jed Lowrey, J.D. Davis, Keon Broxton and Lagares. It also depends on whether Jeff McNeil can play the OF. If he can, I see it like this . . .
1. RF – Brandon Nimmo
2. LF – Jeff McNeil
3. 2B – Robinson Cano
4. 1B – Peter Alonso
5. CF – Michael Conforto
6. C – Wilson Ramos
7. 3B – Todd Frazier
8. SS – Amed Rosario
Lowrey and J.D. Davis will play some 3rd and 1B, and so will Todd Frazier. If Frazier really struggles again, we’ll see more of Lowrey and Davis. There’s also a possibility the Mets hold Alonso out for about 3 weeks so his major league service doesn’t start this year. Doesn’t that seem ridiculous? Sounds like a rule change is necessary there . . .
Checkers?
Yeah that major league service thing is goofy. I could see if for some reason it was 3 months, but 3 weeks?
Exactly, I don’t get that. In any case, knowing the Mets, despite the fact that Van Wagenen continues to insist Alonso has a very good chance to be in the opening day lineup, they will take the road that 90% of MLB teams take, and sacrifice a couple of weeks to eliminate starting the ML service accrual clock. 😦
Wyoming at first I didn’t read you post as “slacking” off especially when it captioned that photo up there.
LOL
Ah shoot, it’s Lowrie, not Lowrey
Sorry Phelon – Sometimes I just have to talk Hopscotch
Ah…I thought it sounded to physical for checkers.
Mike, yeah they should do the 3 weeks thing with Alonso who I hope is the real deal. The season isn’t going to be determined the first 3 weeks so no biggie. It’s just a goofy rule.
Mike, what do you think of the Mets bullpen? I think they made it much better and deeper.
Once again it will come down to players staying healthy which doesn’t seem to happen with this team.
It’s deeper, but from the left side, lots of ??? Right now it’s Justin Wilson and Daniel Zamora, but there are a couple of non roster invitees and minor league contracts given to a couple of promising guys, like Luis Avalan and one other guy I can’t think of at the moment. Otherwise it looks very solid.
They suck! 😉
Oh, the other Mike. LOL
March 14 at 4:00 p.m
Along with Murray’s size, his accuracy to the middle of the field (due to size) may be lacking. I read a good report on him on The Draft Network. I’ve been going there recently to read up on players. They can go overboard with criticism sometimes but it’s good info/another perspective.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/31/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-kyler-murray/
Also, after reading this, I agree that he would not fit what they will want to do on offense especially not being able to accurately make the pass to someone crossing in tight coverage.
Like many college QBs a lot of the time they are throwing to wide open receivers. That’s what changes in the NFL – tight windows. I think people forget players in college are competing against many who are 19, 20 and 21 years old who will have no career in the NFL. In the NFL, most of them were the best in the country when they played in college and now they’re grizzled vets and grown men. Totally different level.
Some people will often say a team like Alabama or Clemson could beat the worst NFL team. They wouldn’t.
If they are looking to implement a Cheatriot type offense, Murray is polar opposite of what they need.
If they want to be multiple on both sides of the ball, does Murray fit at QB on a multiple offense?
This is really silly stuff that is out there by fan sites that portray themselves as legit sources.
“But if the Cards do draft the junior quarterback from Oklahoma, what will be the trade value for Rosen? If this situation ever happened, I would expect the Dolphins to be involved. I could also imagine mid-round pick, the highest being a 2nd rounder, for Rosen.”
The guy was just drafted #10 last year and now he’s a mid-round pick, the highest being a 2nd rounder? That’s ridiculous! LOL
https://phinphanatic.com/2019/02/17/amid-the-kyler-murray-rumors-is-josh-rosen-on-his-way-to-miami/
Many of those writers do not have your football IQ, Tim.
This is a very advanced knowledge base on this board.
David, we’re rebuilding. We do not “have” to find “the guy” at QB this year.
Yea, we don’t need a QB if we enjoy losing, but I don’t, and hopefully Flores came here to win games. Winning games is a big factor in how he will be measured
it’s easy to point to the whopping number of wins Shula has in any argument he was a great coach
It will be interesting to see what the team does, stay tuned for the draft
Tannehill ran a 4.65. 40, about six years before his knee injury. He might not be able to run that anymore.
But He isn’t fast, and not even close to Murrays speed. Murray hasn’t run the combine yet, but has run a much faster time.already.
Murray will be the fastest QB in the NFL, and in the top of all time, maybe Vick was slightly faster..
This is an area of Murrays game with zero questions, the questions are can he do everything an NFL QB needs to do
Nobody is saying Tannehill is faster than Murray. Murray is faster than a lot of WRs and RBs. Nobody disputes his speed and running ability.
Agreed 😎
Rob says:
>>>>>
MF-13, It’s like this Blog, Piggy’s in charge but Mike calls the shots, Stanger is the enforcer and everyone answers to Ken…
>>>>>
I never knew any of this. I always thought Herd was in charge, but Old Dolphan calls the shots; Son is the enforcer and everyone answers to Tim Knight.
Jeez, ppl could tell a guy shit, ya know. No wonder I’m always on here all by myself.
Murrays accuracy is questionable? 69.8 last year?
Tannehill s last season at Texas Tech he had 61.6 percent average, but we picked him anyway
You can’t cherry pick numbers like that. Situations are different. Completion pct. does not alone define accuracy. Hitting wide open receivers and making throws in tight windows are two different things. Those windows aren’t going to be wide open often in the NFL. That’s what scouts are/will be looking at. Not just highlight plays.
I’m looking at their last season of completion percentage, but if You look at entire careers Murray beats Tannehill there too.
Murray broke Mayfields passing records for a season, and won the heismann trophy .
No one gave him anything but a chance, he did the rest.
Scout do look at what were the QB stats are in college, it’s part of the evaluation.
Would You draft a QB and ignore his college achievements? Good luck, lol
What’s up gang?
I just watched the Patrick/Murray interview and honestly I think that’s a whole lot about nothin’.
The kid is clearly kinda shy. He obviously was completely unprepared. Seemed like his dad is advising him, rarely a good sign. But there were a few times when I felt like he was starting to answer a question and Patrick talked over him. Murray being shy kinda just shut up whenever that happened. Patrick was smelling blood and bigtimed the kid a little. No biggie, just not a bad interview all the way around.
It could affect his marketability, but I’m more concerned with his ability to execute on a football field then in the interview chair.
Here’s an article of interest to almost no one:
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/the-best-baseball-players-in-the-college-football-playoff-and-vice-versa/
Yep, he’s a two sport athlete like Bo Jackson
Murray’s exploits have been well documented this year. He excelled on the diamond for Oklahoma, hitting .296/.398/.556 with 10 home runs and 10 stolen bases while also participating in spring football. He went on to be drafted ninth overall by the A’s.
This fall, Murray reminded everyone why he was one of the top quarterbacks in the 2015 recruiting class as he led Oklahoma to a 12-1 record, the Big 12 Conference title and won the Heisman Trophy in his first year as a starter. He leads the nation in total yards (school-record 4,945 yards), threw for 40 touchdowns and ran for 10 more.
I just want a QB that can help this team, I don’t care what his name is. I just don’t understand discounting guys as possibles for reasons that don’t really add up.
Like I said, initially I did the same, we don’t need a short running QB here. But then I discovered he isn’t that, he’s the guy that broke Mayfields passing records with almost the same team, only a year later.
Mayfield has shown he can hang in the NFL, so the guy that beat his records with the same school a year later cannot be called a running QB. We have to consider that he also could make it at the next level baring injury.
He is a complete QB, but like all NCAA QB, he has a lot to learn. We will see what direction the rebuild goes, but a rebuild while ignoring the QB position would be woefully incomplete, and Flores doesn’t seem the type to be woefully incomplete, he seems very detailed instead.
There is no doubt in My Mind Flores has a plan for QB, I’m just not privy to what it is yet 😎
David, why when discussing Murray does it have to be vs. Tannehill? Move on from that and discuss Murray the prospect, not the guy you want to get rid of anyway. Compare Murray to other QBs in this 2019 draft class, that’s who he’s competing against.
Because of posts questioning Murray being a accurate passer.
will Miami use the number 13 pick for a guy with a much higher percentage, yards, TDs, heismann trophy, led the nation, when we already picked a guy at 8 with a much less impressive resume, that includes none of what Murray did?
Also RT is/ was our QB, so the new guy will inevitably be compared, hopefully in a positive light
You are also obviously correct that Murray is competing with the other QB in he draft. We haven’t really discussed that, but of course it’s true.
We can discuss it if You like, one things for sure, Denver may not be picking one because they traded for flacco, so that one more QB going to be available. Haskert wil be gone by 13, and maybe Lock too. Jones could be available at 13 unless someone trades up for him.
Murray is the most likely one to fall to us at 13 in a lot of mocks, but we have all seen QB surprises in the draft before, he could be gone by 13, or Miami might draft the next Jordan, Parker or Harris.
I would be excited if Murray was our choice , alot more than I was when we drafted Tannehill
I think Denver could take a QB even with trading for Flacco.
Hey who knows Murray might become a new trend in the NFL where smaller QBs become a thing. I really don’t know. If we take him at #13 it’s because our FO and coaching staff has a vision for him and they think he can succeed. Then as fans we might as well get on board because that’s what it’s going to be at least for a little while. LOL
Tim, do You believe Denver might still pick a QB in the first round? Shit, lol. I was thinking/hoping they wouldn’t.
But yes, dammit, it has to be at the least possible Denver doubles down.
but if there is an early run on QB, we won’t get one imo 🙁
Flacco is 34 and not exactly trending upwards. I think Denver is hoping to revitalize him for a year or two and make another run with their defense. Fangio is their HC and he’s an excellent defensive coach. Denver has 10 draft picks and decent cap to upgrade their team. So I do think a QB of the future at #10 is a possibility for them.
I could see OAK, NYG, JAX, DET, DEN and CIN all being in play for QBs.
David, I was not saying that he has terrible accuracy. He has a good completion %. Like what was said earlier, you can’t just go by stats (%).
“Throws with most confidence to two areas: vertically between the numbers and on out-breaking patterns to the sideline. Good timing in these areas, otherwise prefers to see the throw uncovered. Spot throws into zone are inconsistent in placement”.
“Progressions –Biggest area of inconsistency. Fully capable, moves eyes across the set and can work right to left or high to low. Too often predetermines his target, however. Guilty of staring down the barrel. Misses a lot of intermediate routes into the MOF, struggles to see over OL.”
All I was referring to was his throws to the middle of the field (MOF). Go watch his highlight reels/tapes and tell me how many times do you see him thread a needle over the middle to a tightly covered receiver or in a tight window. This will be a concern/handicap for Murray in the offense I suspect we will run. That’s all.
Dude has good stats though. 😉
I gotcha, btw most scouts freely admit they are having trouble evaluating him.
He’s so athletically gifted, and led the nation last year with 54 TDS, but he isn’t the NFL prototypical size.
Where does he go in the draft? I’ve seen huge variances of opinions, so ultimately it will be not where you picked him, but what can he do for Your team now that You picked him.
Given the right coaching, schemes, and players, he could be a dynamic playmaker, and eventually could do special things for his team.
There are no ready made Marinos in the draft, they all have worts to work through
Hogworts, lol. Warts!
Bbm, I watched some more highlights, and Murray does show ability to drill it into the middle of the field, sometimes threading it in tight, sometimes the receiver is open.
Since its highlights, there are a lot of deep throws, true, that look awesome btw,
but he also has the short middle drill throws included, take a look
Take a look
At the combine outside of height and weight for Murray will be his hand size. If’s he’s short, light and has small hands he’ll fall out of the 1st rd.
Interviews too. Those interviews at the combine are very important