Dolphins stun Pats in NE for big win in season finale 27-24. OC Chad O’Shea is fired and team quickly hires Chan Gailey to replace him

Wow, a lot of things happened this weekend. More stunning than the away win in Foxborough to me is the firing of OC Chad O’shea, and then even more stunning is the quick hiring of 68 year old Chan Gailey. Man, I did not have any inkling that might happen. I know the run game was non existent but I also thought all too often running room wasn’t available either. Is that play calling, offensive strategy or just a lack of talent on the O-line? Apparently, Grier and Flores must have agreed it was a combination of all of them. Our best DB Xavien Howard was arrested for domestic battery. Lots of news and I’m not sure if any of it is good. I’ll get back to all this, first I’ll cover the final game of the season, that most satisfying win in New England.

The Dolphins traveled to a proverbial house of horrors for them over the last 20 years. Before the win on Sunday, the Dolphins were 3-16 at Foxborough, and the last win before last Sunday was in 2008. We were 16 + points underdog for a reason yet Ryan Fitzpatrick and the Dolphins found a way to beat the Patriots, who by the way, needed that win to give them home field advantage in the playoffs. The defense made some plays and none was larger than the pick 6 against Tom Brady, the same Tom Brady that shreds us every time we travel north to play them. Eric Rowe made the biggest play of his career jumping the pass intended for Julian Edelman and taking that INT to the house for a TD.That gave the Dolphins a shocking 10-0 lead a 1/3 of the way through the 2nd QTR. The Patriots came back to tie it though and I’m sure many of you expected the wheels to fall off after that happened. The first half ended tied at 10.

This team has a lot of fight in them and I think that’s a product of the HC Brian Flores’ mentality. He didn’t take the job to satisfy the medias agenda of losing, he’s a winner, a fighter. The team emulates the coach. Devante Parker had one of the best defensive backs in football on him most of the game, and Stephon Gilmore had no answer for the rising Parker. The New England Patriots had no answer for Ryan Fitzpatrick and his ability to constantly step up and either run away from the pass rush or step up and get rid of the football. It must have driven Belichick crazy. DeVante finished the game with 8 catches for 137 yards for an impressive 17.1 YPC. Our new susperstar finished the season with 72 receptions and 1202 yards along with 9 TD’s at a 16.7 YPC clip. Parker simply attacked the ball this season and played like every pass in his vicinity was his, it was remarkable.

On defense Davon Godchaux silently had a very nice season. There will be no accolades for him but Godchaux finished the season playing a combination of DE and DT with 75 tackles (33 solo) and 2 sacks as well as 4 TFL. Not stunning numbers but just very solid, reliable play. Godchaux had 4 tackles and 2 TFL against the Patriots. Andrew Van Ginkel had 6 unassisted tackles. Jerome Baker had 8 tackles (5 solo) along with a FF. Baker is a bright spot on this defense as well. Hey, did I mention that the Dolphins were down 24-20 with 3:53 to go? I can almost guarantee you that Patriots fans thought they had another in the the bag, the hapless Dolphins gave ’em a good fight, but now it was time to mail it in. UH-UH. Ryan Fitzpatrick led a 13 play 75 yard drive to take the lead on a 2 YD rushing TD by who other than the Dolphins leading rusher, Ryan Fitzpatrick. That was exciting as hell, it really was. That drive was daggers brother, and Belichick must have been bleeding inside watching that transpire. No run game to help him, Ryan Fitzpatrick came out firing to Parker, Ford and Gesicki, all the way down the field and the although Fitz fumbled a snap he managed to fall on top of it to maintain possession. It was just beautiful that long drive with our MVP shredding the vaunted Patriots defense for the TD.

There are going to be so many changes next season I don’t even know where to start. Chan Gailey will be the skipper of the offense. He certainly has experience, but why do I feel so much like Bill Parcells handing over the keys to the offense to Dan Henning? Anyone? It’s a strange one, I just can’t shake it. It might work out, but I don’t feel good about it. Sorry. The draft will be bringing in a lot of new players, both drafted and undrafted. We have so many undrafted guys now that the talent may push some of these unsung players off the roster. You only get 53 spots so only the best survive. What happens with Xavien Howard could deal a serious blow to our defense. It may be nothing or it might be an 8 game suspension or more. It’s not good.

Brian Flores looks all the world to be a keeper. You have to feel confident with what he’s accomplished. With significantly more talent on his roster, better things will come. I don’t know much if any impact Josh Rosen has next season. Not sure if he’s even on the roster. I’d guess he will be because he doesn’t cost much so at worst he’s competing for either the starting job with Fitz or if we draft a QB, fighting to be the #2. We desperately need talent on both the O-line and D-line. We need pass rushers, either at DE, DT or LB or all 3. We may need 2 or more CB’s, and we also need a safety opposite Rowe. We must find a RB and hopefully some big fellas that give said RB some room to run. We seem to have found our receiving TE but I’m not sure Durham Smythe is an NFL TE. He’s a decent blocker but not an impact blocker and he doesn’t have hands. Clive Walford probably won’t be back. At WR I feel great about Parker and Albert Wilson showed some signs of life near the end of the season and Allen Hurns is a solid possession receiver along with Preston Williams who should be back by season’s start. Isaiah Ford looks promising as well so I don’t expect a lot of attention in the draft at WR. I’d say needs in order of importance are OL, DL as 1 and 1A, CB, QB about equal followed closely by RB and S.



Happy New Year!!!

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677 Responses to Dolphins stun Pats in NE for big win in season finale 27-24. OC Chad O’Shea is fired and team quickly hires Chan Gailey to replace him

  1. naplesfan2010 says:

    I do think Bellicheck was a genius at 3 things
    1) designing a game plan to exploit opponents’ weaknesses
    2) in-game coaching incl. half-time adjustments, and
    3) composing a roster whose members marched to the Patriot Way.

    He also squeezed the maximum production anyone could imagine out of Tom Brady’s athletic skills.

  2. naplesfan2010 says:

    Chan Gailey had a better record as Dallas HC than both Parcells and Jimmy Johnson.

  3. naplesfan2010 says:

    I will always admire Tom Brady for honing his craft, for taking care of his health, and for Gisele.

  4. pheloniusphish says:

    Best part of the game (besides shots with the Little Mermaid) was watching it in a Patriots’ bar. Owner’s son was a reserve LB for NE 7 or 8 years ago.

  5. olddolphan says:

    THERE’s speculation on two things of interest to me in this morning’s paper.
    #1) Tom boy & spouse own a home in the San Diego area. And Chargers are looking to replace Phillip Rivers @ QB as soon as they can. What better way is there to move out of the Charger’s soccer stadium (capacity of 25,000) and into the new super stadium in the Los Angeles suburbs with TOM BRADY AS YOUR STARTING QUARTERBACK?!?!? PS: Don’t the Fins play the Chargers during the 2020 season??

    #2) Bill Belicheat now has 304 wins, 43 behind THE DON OF MIAMI. Will the Master Cheater hang around as many years as needed to surpass Shula, even if those years produce records closer to 7-9 rather than 13-3?? The NFL is getting ready to punish the Cheats AGAIN, and it WON’T BE PRETTY!! Belicheat, no doubt, will have to rehabilitate his reputation in the eyes of his critics. And he probably thinks topping 347 wins will do it. But many, including me, will always consider him the Master Cheater who STOLE dozens of ill-gotten wins with the help of ROBERT KRAPP’S money and influence.

  6. bailbondmike says:

    Tried using the simulator on “Fanspeak”. Sucks! Kept timing out, screen refreshing now frozen. Got to 7th round and stuck. Don’t recommend using it. I was liking the draft though:
    CB Okudah, OSU
    LB Simmons, Clemson
    DL Kinlaw, SC
    C Humphrey, OK
    OT Tega Wanogho, AUB
    RB Edwards-Helaire, LSU
    OG Damien Lewis, LSU
    RB Kylin Hill, Miss ST
    SS Reggis Floyd, Va Tech
    CB Amik Robertson, La Tech
    Edge Bryce Huff, Memphis
    QB Anthony Gordon, Wash St
    DT Hamilton, OSU

  7. dbolt48 says:

    The thing I really enjoyed about this season is that there has been a re-emergence if smash mouth football. The emphasis of physical OLs controlling the game vs the high flying 7 on 7 throw it all over the field has been really nice. Hopefully Miami builds with maulers up front and lands Jonathan Taylor at RB.

  8. Mike E. says:

    ER – The Titans becoming a better team with Tannehill is more of an indictment on just how bad Mariota was than a plus for Tannehill. I do give him credit for making the best of the situation though. He’s not trying to do more than they ask him to do, but it’s basically what we always said here, give him a great run game and a good defense and he can get you into the playoffs, but I still don’t think he can lift his team if one of the other n2 phases aren’t there. We’ll see.

  9. steveccnv says:

    In response to Cav on the last page.

    On that 3rd down play, he stared down the TE, so play call worked, he didn’t have to scan the field. The big 3rd down run, I didn’t see, but again, these are plays that fit his strengths. When you put him in position to win, he can, as long as he has help, and stays within himself.

    It broke down here, because we had no running game, or OL, but look at Gase’s first year. The OL was good and Ajayi was lighting it up, so he won.

    RT doesn’t suck, but he can’t do it like Brady or Manning did. I hope they beat Baltimore, but reality says in order to do that he’s going to have to be really good, and I don’t think he can be.

  10. Ken says:

    The Tannehate is still strong on this site. The guy had a great season. Won a playoff game and is about to make bank. Props to Tannehill

  11. Mike E. says:

    Ken – Not a Tannehater. If you could be honest for second, tell me if you think Tannehill has as good a season as Fitzpatrick had this year here with what he had to work with. I don’t think for a second he does. I don’t think he’s capable of escaping the rush and seeing it as well as Fitz does. He’d have his usual mediocre season and we’d al be making the same old excuses, no O-line, no run game, no time to throw etc etc.

    • Ken says:

      Watching Tannehill this year what surprised me was how well he did extended plays with his legs. Many of the big plays he hit on this year were plays he extended with his legs. No question he benefited from having a great running game and line but we all knew he needed that. With that he played at an extremely high level. Would he have done that if he stayed here? Who knows. It just shows how bad of a job we did putting talent around him.

  12. bailbondmike says:

    Tannehill is a Dilfer. Give him a good supporting cast and he can get you there. Now, TN does not have the defense Dilfer had in Balt so don’t see them going any farther. This Balt D will be tough and all they have to do is take away TN run game/control the clock. If TN is able to keep Lamar off the field and control the clock, it will be an interesting game. Go Tannehill !!!

  13. D says:

    Too many variables to predict Tannehill here or there. From watching some Titan’s games he has improved in some ways but he definitely is nor has ever been as refined a QB as Fitz.

    Fitz issue is he sees things as the should be so he takes chances he shouldn’t because the an control all the factors involved in that perfect pass scenario he sees in his head. Slightly off = int in the NFL so he has a few of those to go with some prefect ones.

    Tanny isn’t as refined, he doesn’t have instincts for the position. He had to be trained to do what a lot of guys do more naturally. He still moves back in the pocket when he should move forward he still throws a little bit more to the receiver.than to where the receiver will be, but he has improved some in the time in Tenn so obviously some of it was his past coaches. He still isn’t a guy to pick up a team and carry them.

    It’s not like we just gave up on a guy who was obviously a great QB. He was not that guy here, 8 years he coulda shown to overcome whatever bad was holding home back. The decision to move on was the right one for us and pretty much looks like it was for him. I do think you take Henry out of that system and Tanny isn’t being talked about and better than he was here, but for right now just be happy for him and happy for us that we finally look like we are moving in the right direction.

  14. D says:

    Btw I know a few are bummed about Houston winning but think about this. This year picks from about 15 to 50 are all going to be about the same caliber player, we were already past 15 so it’s not going to be a biggie, unless you were hoping that they would trade the pick as that’s the only scenario I see that make a difference, and even then it probably doesn’t for the same reason it doesn’t matter to be 20 or 28.

    I kinda like that the bills lost and didn’t break their post season winning streak. I hate that team and am happy to see them lose. Patriots losing was great I don’t think it’s says as much about Tenn and the great Tanny as much as it does the Pats losing a two. It’s indication that our time is coming and it is kind of exciting.

  15. ElephantRider says:

    RT17 has 100 or above passer rating in 8 of his 12 games. That’s pretty good.
    I never thought or called him elite, or wished he was still here.
    I will always wish the best for him tho. He’s a good dude and did everything he could while here.

    I could be stuck on Landry, Ajayi, or MTM….. would that be better? Lol

    • Mike E. says:

      Very much like he had here when Ajayi was a big run threat. Problem is, take that away and he’s not special. I’m not knocking him but I feel like there’s an underlying narrative that Tannehill wasn’t good here because we didn’t supply him talent. He had talent here at times during his career but he never elevated his play to the level he is now without it. It’s not our fault Tannehill was never great here, he’s just not a great QB, he’s average really but good when the circumstances are favorable for him like they are in Tennessee. That’s how I feel about it.

      • Mike E. says:

        Oh, and fuck MTM, Mary Tyler Moore was awesome, this MTM is overrated!

      • ElephantRider says:


        MTM had a couple lucky bounces his way and turned into an All Pro apparently. Didn’t hear a word about him those last seven games where he had just 21 tackles. Lol

  16. ocalarob says:

    Being 1 of the highest sack teams in the NFL also with the worst running game in the NFLIT’s clear that quarterback is not our problem

  17. ocalarob says:

    Keep Fitzpatrick in Rosen trade back acquire more picks and draft offense of lineman

  18. New Age says:

    Tannehill is a good QB with severe limitations. As long as you give him benefits that help take away his weaknesses, he can do good work. That’s almost all QBs though. Look at Trubisky last year and Goff. Tannehill is in a great situation and I hope he does well. He didn’t win yesterday’s game and they probably would have lost with a different RB. That doesn’t make Henry an all pro suddenly either. We screwed up with Ryan and Brees. We didn’t screw up letting Tannehill find a better fit.

  19. bailbondmike says:

    I guess I can quit doing for a while. LOL

    5 Derrick Brown, IDL Auburn
    18 K’Lavon Chaisson, EDGE LSU
    25 Tyler Biadasz, IOL Wisconsin
    39 A.J. Terrell, CB Clemson
    62 J.K. Dobbins, RB Ohio State
    70 Calvin Throckmorton, OT Oregon
    135 Nick Coe, EDGE Auburn
    144 Clyde Edwards-Helaire, RB LSU
    147 Anthony Gordon, QB Washington State
    165 Reggie Floyd, S Virginia Tech
    177 Denzel Mims, WR Baylor
    220 Davon Hamilton, IDL Ohio State

    © 2020 The Draft Network

  20. olddolphan says:

    THAT WAS FAU ALUM TREY HENDRICKSON with the sack of Kirk Cousins a few plays ago.
    Hendrickson leads the Saints in sacks this season. He also holds the record for the most sacks in Conference USA history!

    Like Devin Singletary, Trey Hendrickson is THE REAL DEAL.

  21. bookman11 says:

    I agree with ER on Tannehill , never thought he was elite, but always liked him
    I find it funny, when Tannehill was losing here, some of us made “excuses” and now when winning in Tennessee some are making “excuses”
    Lol JBB

  22. bailbondmike says:

    How is that PI not reviewable? Did PI reviews only pertain to regular season?

  23. bailbondmike says:

    Saints screwed 2 years in a row on a PI no call. The no call on the Rams vs Saints last year was the reason they inserted the review in the first damn place. WTF

  24. bailbondmike says:

    Will this Saints loss help our 2nd round pick from them any?

  25. Mike E. says:

    You can bust balls all you like, but if you read what I wrote properly, it said we’d ALL be making excuses. Ok, I typed al, but that was supposed to be all. I didn’t exclude myself from those that would be making excuses. Most QB’s are only as good as the situation they’re in. I would include Tom Brady in that discussion. If Tom Brady was drafted by the Lions (you can show this to your Lions fan pal), he wouldn’t be in the conversation of GOAT.

    • bookman11 says:

      Wow Mike, my post was all in fun. I even said “us” meaning me included, referring to making excuses when Tannehill lost. It was really more of a funny overall observation that might have been funnier in person than in writing.

      • bookman11 says:

        Also, I wasn’t specifically addressing you, I meant it as a general observation

      • Mike E. says:

        No sweat, I wasn’t mad although my post might have come off that way. I defended Tannehill more times than I care to remember. I think there are a handful of game changers at the QB position right now and then I think there is a level just below that and then I think there’s everyone else. Some are in better positions than others depending on their surroundings such as roster, coaching etc. What is your friend’s name who came to the Fest, I’m drawing a blank?
        PS – I think Tannehill is in the “everyone else” category. Jackson, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, and maybe another 1 or 2 guys I can’t think of off the top of my head are the handful

      • bookman11 says:

        A couple of things Mike: my friends name is Fred. Secondly, “no sweat”? Really, what is this the 70’s man? lol. I just don’t take things too seriously. We’re cool dude, I dig it. 😳

  26. wyoming85 says:

  27. herdfan says:

    I wouldn’t be making excuses. I always tried to be supportive because he was our QB but I never was happy with taking him to be our franchise QB. Honestly I always felt like we got lucky somehow if he had a good game etc. I don’t think that makes me a hater, I like to think it means I’m capable of being objective. 😊

    Then this year, I have to admit I wondered if maybe it was coaching all along. Nah! 😂

  28. Mike E. says:

    Bookman – I’m from the 60’s bro, neato!

  29. Mike E. says:

    Bookman – I think people still say “no sweat” as well as “dude” that one has some serious staying power

  30. olddolphan says:

    HERD: LIKE YOU, I DOUBTED that Tanny was an upper echelon QB. But it didn’t really matter. Miami has had an O-Line that’s ranged from below average to downright awful ever since Tannehill got here. Under those conditions, Tannehill never had a chance to lead us to playoff glory. Now that he’s playing with a decent O-Line, HE HAS A CHANCE TO MAKE SOME NOISE IN THE PLAYOFFS!
    LOUSY O-LINE=NO PLAYOFFS. Maybe THIS YEAR our FO will finally get the message.

  31. wyoming85 says:

  32. Rockphin says:

    I posted a silly article on here in ’16 that basically charted a bunch of the “Franchise QB’s”. NONE of them were “elite” until they reached their 5-6 season. Maybe it’s Henry, Maybe it was because he wasn’t asked to throw more than 24 times per game this season,maybe it was because he had teh 5th most time average to throw the ball this season. whatever it was, He lead the league in passer rating (YES a team rating) was top 10 in completion percentage and lead the league in yards per pass attempt.

    History will tell.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      If he was elite in his 5th or 6th year he would still be here

      There’s a lot of first round QBs that don’t develop

      Maybe he’s a late bloomer. Maybe he’s Rich Gannon. He’s 31 now. But maybe he’s not. He was ever a bust by any stretch

      But Teams can’t wait until year 7 for a qb to come around. It’s just not feasible in terms of money.

  33. CavalierKong says:

    Fun Wild Card weekend!! And the Patriots are out, which is totally boss.

  34. Mike E. says:

    Bookman – I have a friend that violently hates when he says thank you to someone and they say no problem. He says people should just you’re welcome, because it sounds like it could potentially be a problem, but it just wasn’t a problem at the moment. I don’t agree with him but it made me laugh though. I also say no problem but I thought no sweat fit this particular scenario better. lol

  35. ElephantRider says:

    RT17 is the bees knees man!

    And that Fitzmagic is the cat’s pajamas!

    • New Age says:

      Father obviously should have beat his ankles instead of his bottom. Toughened up the wrong area….

      • The Flying Pig says:

        It’s crazy that his father made him throw left handed

      • New Age says:

        It is especially since it’s his non-dominant hand, and the NFL works around righties. I made him because I’m left-handed sounds almost primitive.

    • dbolt48 says:

      You probably saw the same post on Twitter, but supposedly Tua’s hip this weekend got a grade, from A-D, as a C- or D+ from the NY specialist. At the same time his pops is supposedly trying to force more money from Alabama to get Tua to stay. Looks like he will enter the draft, but with a severe question mark on his possible recovery.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        I did see that post but I tend to think the injury stuff is just rumor and not reliable

        This stuff about his father making all decisions is out of his own mouth

        Given that a Minkah demanded a trade after his mom said she didn’t like the way he was used – the overbearing father bothers me.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Over zealous in a very fucked up way. Yikes!

  36. steveccnv says:

    Lol at Ken defending Tannehill, and saying he played At a high level this year. Which one of those 72 yards that he passed for yesterday proves that?

    • ElephantRider says:

      The dude started 10 games and threw 22 TD against 6 INT. Had 70% completion with 9.6 ypa. His passer rating would be the fourth highest in NFL history.
      I guess he was terrible this year.

  37. ocalarob says:

    Tannehill is still the same QB,, he sits back there in the pocket oblivious to what’s going on around him, like he’s thrift shopping for a rec.
    he still throws a deep missile with no touch that requires pin point accuracy.
    the reason he’s succeeding now is because of Derrick Henry.
    D’s have to focus more on stopping Henry than paying attention to what Tannehill is doing.

    Note that most of the teams still alive right now do one thing very well.


  38. wyoming85 says:

  39. wyoming85 says:

  40. D says:

    I dont see McCarthy as an upgrade over Garrett. In fact if we hadn’t landed a guy who looks like a legit coach, id probably be in for us signing Garrett. The guy is getting a bad rap, and is a scapegoat for what seems to me to be a culture issue growing in Dallas. I dont know if he is anything exciting, but he can get you in the playoffs for sure.

  41. wyoming85 says:

    Tua declares!

  42. wyoming85 says:

    For the million conversations to come!

    • The Flying Pig says:

      It’s probably not wise to trade up beyond 4
      Those other picks are valuable for a player with a lot of uncertainty , I’m not a huge fan of that

  43. Jahndoh30 says:

    Tannehill played big from the moment he broke into the starting lineup this year. If you weren’t watching and try to analyze him based on the playoff game he just won(!!!) in New England (!!!) you’re going to say he didn’t do anything and it’s all Derrick Henry. That ain’t accurate.

    I don’t think letting him walk was a mistake, I think it was the best decision for our franchise at the time, but I think it’s ridiculous to try and downplay what he’s accomplished this year. It’s all on tape. I’m happy for him. Hey Ryan, it wasn’t you. It was US!!!!!

  44. Jahndoh30 says:


    You thinking people are going to advocate trading up from 5 for Tua? I like Tua, but I wouldn’t do that. Now if Cleveland wanted to do a deal for Burrow…I’d probably be interested.

  45. Jahndoh30 says:

    Piggy, I just want to resteer some of the rhetoric surrounding Tua: For the most part people only see him as a risk from an injury standpoint. All his other skills are exactly what NFL teams are looking for. If you believe in the success of modern medicine, the resilience of a young world class athlete, and you get the green light from medical staff, I don’t see him as having so many questions. I’ve always felt injury risks are the easiest ones to handicap. I wouldn’t look to trade up, but if they do, I won’t be second guessing it.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I think most of the criticism is a little overblown
      But I think that’s bc I am resigned to believe no matter what when it comes to the draft, you don’t know what to expect

      But that story I read last night (which is from a year ago) didn’t sit well
      An overbearing father like that isn’t what I like to see
      And Tua gladly proclaiming his father makes the decisions for the family bothered me even more

      I guess it can be a good thing if the entire family gets up and moves like they did at Alabama and he’s comfortable with their involvement in his life for the next 10-15 years

      But, I like to see a little more independence and know that a guy’s heart is in the game

      No one is talking about his family at this time. Actually the espn clip from that interview was framed in a very positive light, but I didn’t see it that way

      Maybe it’s just me. I won’t let my parents pick my socks, much less my career

      It might be nothing, just personality differences between the player and the way I personally live my life but it jumped out to me when I read it. I had no idea what his family was like until I read that piece

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Also, I think this sort of thing among athletes is a little more common than it is for most of us regular folk

      • TryPod says:

        Kinda makes you think of the Ball family.. I don’t want that kind of (potential) distraction on my team.

  46. wyoming85 says:

  47. wyoming85 says:

    Does anybody think we need 2 WR’s?

  48. The Flying Pig says:


    The Ball family is a good comparison – but I don’t think Tua’s dad is anything like that. They’ve been involved in his decision to go to Alabama, and they’ve never really made demands as far I know. They haven’t been in the spotlight like the Ball family who seems more interested in selling their brand

    The Ball family is an extreme example

    Tua’s family isn’t that bad and they haven’t acted like that at Alabama

    I am more thinking: he’s not really his own man and you worry what happens when he gets away from his family or whether he feels a need to get away and whether that changes him.

    I don’t know if you’ve heard stories about a Tiger Woods, but his dad was like that and people have described Tiger Woods as being like a robot, who can’t think for himself. He had a pretty server fall from grace only to recently be successful again

    I just get a creepy vibe when a parent does that with their child
    It may not be warranted

    Todd Marinovoch is another guy who was a compete bust bc it was like his dad built him in a lab

    Its no reason not to take a player early, bc it’s not a football opinion – but it just creeps me out a little

    • steveccnv says:

      Rightfully so, but I’m all in with Tua at #5, no higher.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        I’m in on it too – the stuff about his dad doesn’t affect whether we should draft him

        It just makes me go “yikes”

        On so many levels I don’t get professional athletes and the things they do anyway…

      • steveccnv says:

        I worry more about the hip, but Gronk had more injuries coming into the NFL, and even though he was often injured, he was great when not. I think Tua may be similar.

  49. steveccnv says:

    I followed what happened this year, but I didnt watch many games. I can’t even tell whether we played a 3-4 or 4-3 as our base D. Anyone?

    • wyoming85 says:

      Good luck with that!
      I don’t think we have a Base?
      It was almost a 3-3-5

    • CavalierKong says:

      Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but it really felt like we played a lot of 4-3 and 3-3-5. I don’t remember seeing a bunch of 3-4. We played a lot of amoeba and we had so many new players all year, so it was hard to know who was on the field sometimes. We rushed 3 linemen a lot, but that was usually in dime.

  50. steveccnv says:

    I wish Tannehill the best against the Ravens, but he’s still the same QB he always was, the difference in Tenn. is they play to his strengths more and don’t seem to worry about him running.

  51. wyoming85 says:

    I wonder what Cincy’s thoughts on Tua are?

  52. wyoming85 says:

  53. Rhino says:

    Free Agency will certainly change our ‘needs’ in the draft. So, I’m thinking we spend all that cap space in areas where we have failed or neglected to solve via draft … OL and Edge, then double down in draft. Yes we have spent some #1’s on OL but without immediate impact. Lots of good OL to be had in this FA class but not enough to revamp the entire line…

    I think the draft can be Offense front loaded. Fitz carried Offense, but it seems the D was definitely ‘coached up’ so I trust finding a CB in Round 3 is very doable.

    If #5 is Tua, then I think #18 should be Biadasz (at C initially… we need to quit ignoring these kind of badasses lol)… and if we spend on OL plus draft one of top 4 RBs… it will change the flow of our games, and even give defense a chance to rest.

    our last first rounder (I’m thinking 27th) and then the 39th could be used for RB and Edge in either order. At 27 we can either Taylor or Swift, at 39 I think Etienne is still available. Edge in this draft is much thinner, so unless, say Espenesa, drops to 18.
    Lots of good OL also available in the 50’s range.

    Mocking drafts feels weird when FA hasn’t happened yet, because EVERYTHING feels urgent. So, I’m just gonna assume that OL is going to be a priority since they have a bigger budget than previous seasons for it.

  54. wyoming85 says:

  55. wyoming85 says:

    Jack Conklin OR
    Germain Ifedi

    our Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 3 (DET): Tua Tagovailoa, QB, Alabama (A)
    Round 1 Pick 18: Jeffrey Okudah, CB, Ohio State (A-)
    Round 1 Pick 25: Anfernee Jennings, OLB/DE, Alabama (B)
    Round 2 Pick 5: Calvin Throckmorton, OT, Oregon (B)
    Round 3 Pick 5: JK Dobbins, RB, Ohio State (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 17: Julian Blackmon, CB, Utah (A)
    Round 6 Pick 5: Tremayne Anchrum, OG, Clemson (A+)
    Round 6 Pick 17: Bradlee Anae, DE/OLB, Utah (A+)
    Round 7 Pick 29: Victor Johnson, OT, Appalachian State (A+)

    • D says:

      I generally don’t like signing DE’s in FA, but i think with so many, there are actually going to be players who would really help us, and we would get them on a somewhat cheap price since there is a lot of competition for the big contracts.

  56. D says:

    I don’t see that 7 round mock as bad at all, even if its not as heavy in certain areas as i would be. there was some really good value late and there was good selections early. I wouldnt mind adding Ruggs, depending on what else was on the board at that time. Hard to criticize that draft without know what other options were there.

  57. Tim Knight says:

    We rarely played traditional 4-3 from what I saw. I saw more of a 3-4 base but that was also hybrid with 2 DL, 2 OLB, 2 ILB and 5 DB. I don’t remember seeing much 4 down DL. When we used 4 man fronts it was usually 3 down DL and one standing. But I’ve noticed that a lot of teams are doing that. Then we ran the same thing the Pats do with one DL and 4-5 LBs moving around with 5-6 DBs. We use a lot of different looks that’s for sure.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I am basically calling us a 3-4

      It’s not accurate, but it’s more accurate than calling us a 4-3

      • CavalierKong says:

        Again, I could be wrong, but I think it’s kind of the opposite. As I said below we rarely rushed a DT in zero tech. More often we’d have two DT, a DE and a LB brought up in the other DE position.

    • CavalierKong says:

      The reason I say we never ran 3-4 is because the defining characteristic of that defense is a zero technique NT, and we never did that. We usually had 2 DT, a DE, and brought a LB up when we rushed 4.

      We’re probably going to have to start redefining some of these defenses. How about we just start calling them by the non-gender ‘they’…

  58. BailBondMike says:

    I really don’t want Tua. I’m sorry. After this major injury, he won’t be the same IMO. He doesn’t challenge himself to make a tight window throw. Instead, he will pass on that opportunity to scramble around until someone comes open. He won’t have that time in the NFL he did in college to find receivers. I would be surprised if he ever managed to complete a full season in the NFL. He never did in college and they have a shorter season. He’s a great talent but…

    • D says:

      No reason to be sorry, everyone have their opinions on players and usually for good reasons. I don’t see that injury as career threatening personally. I dont see his play-style as anything different that Russell Wilson, and he will need to learn to avoid hits and play a little different just as Wilson has. He is a really solid prospect, capable of being a franchise guy, in my opinion.

      I think you like Hebert and i see a lot of problems with him that make me think he is not a start right off guy, and has some limitation that might prevent him from reaching his potential as well. Burrow is the only one where its really kind of nit-picking his flaws.

      Thats said if they took Herbert at 5 i wouldn’t be upset. If they passed on Tua i wouldn’t be upset. If they waited and took Eason i wouldn’t be upset. Lots of options this coming year, lots of way to improve out team, i think its going to be a good draft and thats said not having a clue how its gonna lay out or who we are going to pick.

      There is too many needs on our team, and too many good players for us to really flunk the draft, but we wont even knw if thats the case for 3 years or so, so we might as well just be hopeful that we take the next step forward and leave it at that.

      • BailBondMike says:

        OH NO, I am not a Herbert fan. I see the same problems as you with Herbert. I have downed him quite a bit on here. I don’t even see him becoming as good a Tannehill. Only QB’s I care to see us draft in the first round is Burrow. Tua, but not at #5. That is it for me in the first round. I am not anti Tua. Just have my concerns. Do we want to spend our #5 on a QB who probably won’t even be full go come training camp.

  59. The Flying Pig says:

    We should look into that guy Dion Jordan in the available DEs list

    Anyone know anything about him?

    I heard a rumor about low body fat…impressive…

    (Piggy ducks)

  60. The Flying Pig says:

    Is “you’re a Herbert fan” the new back handed insult on this blog?

    • ElephantRider says:

      Other than Burrow, I lump them all in together.

      Tua in that group now, because I just don’t think he’ll ever make a full season.

      • pheloniusphish says:

        What ER said.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        The thing about QBs is that they get picked apart

        It’s going to get worse for a few months until the draft

        I think Burrow is the safest pick
        But even Burrow is going to get ripped apart by April

        I think guessing who will be the best is a crap shoot
        And whomever has alleged flaws now, it might just be bs
        Or it might not just play out to hurt them

        It’s actually a pretty good class at QB
        I think it’s a lot more important to hit on the the other picks for whomever we pick to excel

        Don’t get me wrong I have Burrow ad the top QB too

        But don’t think the difference between 1, 2, 3 or 4 is going to make or break us

  61. wyoming85 says:

  62. Rockphin says:

    wyoming85 says:
    January 6, 2020 at 2:34 pm
    Does anybody think we need 2 WR’s?

    If Williams comes back healthy I think we will have a very dominant duo with him and Parker. Ford looked ok too and then we still have grant

    We’ll pick up a few later in and in FA

  63. Rockphin says:

    The shit you hear about Tua’s dad reminds me of the stories of RG3’s dad meddling in Wash. Not something I would wish for But it’s not my problem either. Coaches will have to handle that shit. And Florez doesn’t strike me as the guy that will put up with much

  64. manitobafinfan says:

    One less DE needed to draft if we do sign this guy … and pretty sure he won’t break the bank
    Knocks down a lot of qbs as well as passes

  65. manitobafinfan says:

    I personally would rather have Burrow than Tua , after that I have no frickin clue.. I expect Fitz to still be here and the Likley day 1 starter .. he’s under contract and based on his play this year I think he earned it so far .. unless he gets beat out in TC …

  66. Tim Knight says:

    Kong, Jensen, Godchaux and Wilkins all played 0 technique at times. We didn’t do anything so often that a base ever existed. I don’t remember us playing a typical 4 man hand in the ground front with 3 box LBs. To me 3 DL, a standing OLB, 2 ILB and 5 DBs is not a 4-3. But I see teams all over the league using these types of formations. The one that looks unique to the Pats is when we use that 1 DL, 4-5 LB and 5-6 DB.

    It’t doesn’t really matter. But as Piggy said, if he had to choose it would be 3-4. I agree. We will look for 0 technique NT, versatile DL and OLB type edge rushers. We were already showing it with Beigel and Van Ginkle for a few games as stand up OLBs.

    • CavalierKong says:

      You mean Jenkins, right?
      Cool, maybe you have a better grasp on what we were doing than I do. It’s hard to define these defenses at times.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Yes I meant Jenkins. 🙂

        I’m just going by what I saw and yeah I watch how we lineup on defense every game. I’m a defense guy. Very few teams play base defense anymore because of all the spread even with RBs and TEs. If offenses aren’t base anymore as in TE, 2 WR, QB, FB and HB, defenses can’t be either. It’s all about match-ups now.

  67. ElephantRider says:


    I agree that the it’s more important to hit on the other picks. The way I see it is, Fins have 2 years to find “the guy”. Hell…haven’t found him yet in 20 years….so…..

  68. Tim Knight says:

    If we can land a couple of significant edge rushers and more depth on defense, I think this group could take a major leap.

    • Tim Knight says:

      What I mean by significant edge rushers is, even if they’re not 10+ sack guys, you add guys who can set the edge in the run game and also get to the QB at a better clip than what we have now. Then guys like Beigel, Van Ginkle and Charlton add depth and play a role.

      I was amazed at how well coached our defense was this year specifically the secondary with how many DBs we played this year. 20?

      We also went through quite a few front 7 players. We don’t have any superstars and we took our lumps. But we also showed progress and future glimpses of what it’s suppose to look like.

  69. Tim Knight says:

    I don’t want to blow too much smoke up Brian Flores’ arse, lol. But let me ask you this, if you knew what he did this year with the hapless Dolphins in 2019, and he was hired as the Cowboys HC in 2019, would they have made the playoffs? With that roster I think it would have been a slam dunk.

    I think we finally found a Head Coach. Not a specialist coach who leans towards one side of the ball, but a guy who coaches the entire team.

    A Head Coach is a leader, the team’s voice, a teacher and director. Flores showed that. He coaches his players and the game. It was his first year. Always ups and downs. But an 0-7 start and a 5-4 finish is promising with a team that can’t wait for the 2020 FA period and draft. LOL

    • ElephantRider says:

      Wonder which player/players would be jettisoned. Not everyone, as we saw, will take to him.

      But man watching this team come together as the season went along was enjoyable for me. Flores turned around the late season swoon that we see year in and year out. He did it with who again?

      • Tim Knight says:

        Beating NE in their building with the bye on the line last game of the year was historic. We played spoiler, or woke up a wounded giant. lol

  70. Rockphin says:

    Dolphins sign QB Jake Rudock to reserve/future contract

  71. Mike E. says:

    At the end of the season I noticed Godchaux playing NT more and Jenkins playing DE. I expect more talent on the DL and most likely Jenkins will be in the rotation but not starting. Godchaux makes tackles and was very active this year, it was nice to see. I think Godchaux can play anywhere on the line which is a plus.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      He was playing NT early in the season too

      He’s a really solid player for us – we can use him a lot of ways
      A late round gem you don’t hear much about

  72. Mike E. says:

    Is it possible that QB is not the priority for this team? I actually think it’s a strong possibility. That doesn’t mean we won’t take one but I don’t think we’re planning on moving up to get one and I wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t take one in the first RD at all. With Fitzpatrick signed and Rosen here we may take a guy who can be groomed and ready in a few years and not rush to take one early this draft. I’m actually fine with that strategy, build a team that is stronger on both sides, we have a FA and lot of picks to shore up the O-line and D-line and grab a RB, CB, pass rushing LB and a safety or two. I don’t feel an overwhelming need to get that QB right now, especially after seeing the holes in our run game. That QB couldn’t help us right now unless we fix all the other areas and provide him some semblance of protection and a run game.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I don’t think it’s a priority
      But if they like someone like Tua, Herbert it Love, it doesn’t matter whether it is
      They probably still use an early pick in a guy they like, then get into needs after that pick

  73. Mike E. says:

    LOL @ “they”. Ask my wife how I feel about the term “they”. lol

    • CavalierKong says:

      I am really struggling with that whole movement. Half of my youngest daughters friends are experimenting with gender fluidity, name changing and the rest. I can’t keep up, lol.

  74. wyoming85 says:

  75. wyoming85 says:

  76. Rockphin says:

    so we are hiring high-school coaches now??? um, ok

  77. pheloniusphish says:

    Now it’s “loosely based” from Armadillo:

    “What this means is that despite the obvious connections we’ve seen between the Dolphins and Tua — with club owner Stephen Ross and general manager Chris Grier attending his games and an entire season loosely based on a #TankforTua philosophy — it’s actually not a done deal.”

    • The Flying Pig says:

      There was never a Tank for Tua philosophy

      In terms of it not being a done deal – of course it’s not
      The draft is late more than 3 mos away

  78. wyoming85 says:

    Is this another one getting off the sinking ship?

  79. D says:

    This is where im at with the QB’s and there are a lot of conditionals.

    Burrow is a no brainer at 5, and while i would be willing to trade up for him, Cincy isnt going to let him pass without some really big compensation which i wouldn’t be willing to part with that much.

    Tua at 5, assuming Burrow is gone, and also Thomas. I think id be more inclined to fix the LT position this year than QB, but only for Thomas. I would not trade up for either.

    No other QB would interest me at 5, if Thomas and both QB’s are gone, id take the best rated defensive player, Young, if he is still there, Derrki Brown, or Okudah.

    For 18, id consider Herbert here along with Delpit, Gross-Matos, Trey Adams, Swift, Kinlaw, Wirfs, Davis.

    For 25+ Id include a QB prospect like Eason, maybe Love, but id be more inclined to take the one that’s left in the first pick of the second round and leave it more up to fate lol. This would be a good spot for Solomon Kindley, CJ Henderson, and maybe lateer round OT guys like Jones or Beckton. Also a good spot if you wanted to add a pass rushing OLB like Okwara or Jennings.

    Im not a big fan of Herbert, i do think he smells of Tanny, but i think development will be better with the current coaching staff. I also think if we do go to a spread system he will do well in that since he runs one now. We HAVE to address the OL if we take him and thats why i would most likely only draft him IF we got Thomas at 5 or traded up a little for Thomas. I cant justify taking him at 5 but 18 is pretty reasonable as the value for risk is concerned.

    • D says:

      Tanny and elderberries.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I know you are trying to get the best talent at 5

      But I just don’t understand waiting until 18 to select a QB
      If you select at QB in the first round 1 I think you have plans for him
      And any QB you think can be your franchise QB, you can take at 5

      It’s one thing if our first pick was 18
      But passing on a QB at 5 to take the QB you love at 18 seems unlikely

      In other words, if you take a QB in the first
      You found your guy

      And if you think a QB is your guys, you don’t risk some one else picking him between 5 and 18

      I think the QB position is unique that way

      I don’t really think Love it Herbert are the 5th best player in the draft
      But I dont want to spend the 18th pick on a QB if he’s not going to be a franchise QB

      • D says:

        Im just not going to select any QB at 5. I will select a QB that im sold on, and for me, thats Tua and Burrow, and with Tua comes enough concerns due to his injuries, that i would value Thomas over him if Thomas was still on the board. I think Herbert’s risk evaluation is probably mid first, or at least i see it that way, and a chunk on the other QB’s i see as later first early seconds.

      • New Age says:


        I feel the exact same way on our draft and like the same ones you’ve mentioned at those spots. I wouldn’t waste the 25+ on Eason though. Guy was inconsistent in the very limited time he played college ball.

  80. wyoming85 says:


  81. Rockphin says:

    WOW, who the hell give a HC a 7 year deal? Especially a guy with a .500 record who has only coached in the NFL for 1 season as an assistant line coach?

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Below .500
      At Baylor which isn’t exactly a powerhouse

    • D says:

      Yeah that’s pretty crazy. I think he is a pretty solid coaching hire to kick off a new spread system, but that’s a heck of an investment. They see something in him i dont.

  82. New Age says:

    The coaching talent tree needs and is getting new blood. I see no problem with Rhule considering the last few guys some of these teams hired. My only concern is that the college system is find the best talent and dominate while the NFL has more parity. You build a little differently and have to kiss more player ass. He’s a solid coach though.

    I would have loved to see Urban in Dallas. He would have retired with headaches in 3-4 years but would have probably put together the best Dallas teams since the 90s. He might have even won one (while Jerry took all the credit). There’s some really talented coaches in college and not all of them turn into Sabans.

    • D says:

      If ya look at it with Kilngsbury, and some other recent hires, the NFL is finally making a pretty significant shift towards what was always inevitable. Brining inthe coaches from the college ranks, i think, will be a upcoming trend we will see yearly from this point forward. Malzahn, almost certainly will be a hot commodity in upcoming years, as will people like Urban Meyer.

  83. D says:

    New Age says:
    January 7, 2020 at 4:08 pm


    I feel the exact same way on our draft and like the same ones you’ve mentioned at those spots. I wouldn’t waste the 25+ on Eason though. Guy was inconsistent in the very limited time he played college ball.
    Ideally i wouldnt either i value him at about our first second round pick. I think he has a lot to work with so there is a good chance he could tun out to be a really good get, but there is enough risk that id preer to use a second on him instead. Sometimes though you just have to draft a little higher than you want to so lat first, early second, it winds up being about the same caliber player.

  84. bailbondmike says:

    D, I like your breakdown. I feel like there is a big drop-off after Burrow and Tua. I will be OK with someone else at #25 otherwise It’s 2nd round or later for me on QB. Again, after Burrow/Tua, this is my guy in the 3rd round:

    Anthony Gordon can make all the throws. Puts it on the money in tight windows.

    • D says:

      I still think Elhinger is a decent prospect. Not a start right off guy but a guy who has the tools to develop. Also if there was a really lae round guy to consider or even a priority FA to throw in for competition, Mason Fine of North Texas. Ill have to look at the guy you are talking about because i cant remember seeing anything about him

    • D says:

      Actually now that i think about it i think i did see a WSU game earlier this year and saw him play. Dont know if i was paying close enough attention to how he did though.

  85. D says:

    I kind of think we might see Meyer in the NFL next year if he is ready to start coaching again. Cleveland almost certainly is looking at him for their HC position.

    • Tim Knight says:

      One thing about that is Urban Meyer has repeatedly said he believes he’s a college coach and the NFL is not for him.

      • D says:

        I think the NFL is changing significantly now to where i dont if that will be true for much longer. I would have agreed with him when he said it, but now i am not sure.

  86. Mike E. says:

    Wyo – If McCaffrey gets any more touches his arms or legs will fall off! He can’t do more than he’s already doing

  87. Tim Knight says:

    Is Jim Caldwell coming back as Asst. HC/QBs coach this year? He’s still listed as such on the official site yet O’Shea and DeGuglielmo are not so it has been updated.

    • Tim Knight says:

      I believe we will make a significant jump. That could be 8-8 but we’ll be a tough opponent most weeks and showing progress. But we see teams make even bigger jumps all the time. The 49ers were #2 in the draft last year and they have a legitimate shot at making it to the Super Bowl this year. It’s no longer a 4-5 year transition. It’s now 2-3.

      • Mike E. says:

        I agree. SO much will be changing here, and you know in FA we will shore up at least 2-3 key spots on the OL and DL and more, and then add in what we get in the draft, it will be very different.

  88. bailbondmike says:

    D, Yes Ehlinger is another mid-later round guy I like. He has flashes of greatness then will make a bad mistake. I like him though. Tough kid and can run. Has good accuracy. Has he declared for the draft?

    • The Flying Pig says:

      He’s staying in school
      I have him as a 1st rounder next year

      But take that with a grain of salt, I also thought KJ Costello making a push to go in the first this year – and I think he’s down to 4th round at best now

  89. Tim Knight says:

    Mike, I think we’ll add 2 OL, TE, Edge, LB and a DB or two in FA. Meaning players to start or play a significant role. Then we’ll target the best players on our board at multiple positions. Before you know it you have 15-20 new players on the team before UDFAs and some other lower tier FAs. Totally different team than this season. Nobody knows what they will be.

  90. Tim Knight says:

    Based on this site, these are the 12 picks we have in 2020.
    1. (3)
    2. (2)
    5. (3)
    6. (3)

  91. The Flying Pig says:

    New Age, I agree the nfl coaching tree is running dry…I think the McCarthy hire is an example of that. It seems like teams recycle coaches

    But if you are going to hire an unproven guy…do you need to pay him that much with a contract that long?

    • New Age says:

      No, that was a terrible idea. The whole thing may be a terrible idea but he’s a solid college coach. Honestly, many people thought Flores was a stretch last year at just 5 years but his made more sense.

  92. Mike E. says:

    We have pick #70 in the 3rd RD, no 4th but 3 5th RD picks

    • Mike E. says:

      Plus, we will also be getting compensatory picks for Ja’Wuan James and Cam Wake, but not as good as we had hoped. Still not sure about the formula but James only started and played in 3 games, and Wake played in 9 games with zero starts, those picks will take a hit for sure.

      • Tim Knight says:

        I’m not sure we get any comp picks for them. Neither player had quality production.

        James is not durable and I’m glad we didn’t re-sign him. Wake probably retires.

    • Tim Knight says:

      I’d rather have an extra 2, three 5’s and three 6’s than a 4th and a 7th.

  93. Mike E. says:

    Tim – I don’t think the formula only takes into account this year’s production. I think it takes last year’s, this year’s and the salary compensation the players were given. Just for example, If a team signs a guy from your team that had a great 2018, they give him a huge contract and then he gets hurt in training camp and misses the entire season, that shouldn’t mean you get nothing for that player. We’re still getting picks, but they won’t be 3rd RD picks, maybe 4th or 5th.

    • Tim Knight says:

      My gut tells me it’s not good enough. If we get a 7th comp pick I’d be surprised. If we get more great! 🙂

      But it doesn’t matter much, we have plenty of quality draft picks and cap to upgrade this team. I’m not worried about comp picks. We have two 1’s and two 2’s next year. The ability to add talent the next two years is abundant. You don’t want 30 rookies anyway. LOL

  94. Tim Knight says:

    For those on this board who are big draftniks, the next two years is your dream scenario. LOL

  95. The Flying Pig says:

    I’ve seen the Dolphins projected to get a 4th and a 7th for com picks but I’m not sure if that still applies

    To bad comp picks don’t get awarded for jerk offs that demand trades bc they don’t like the way they are used, or we might get some more picks for Minkah

  96. The Flying Pig says:

    I just saw an interesting/troubling stats about Jonathan Taylor

    He has 18 career fumbles

    • New Age says:

      I like Taylor a lot (especially his pounding style) but my favorite two are Dobbins and Swift. Dobbins just seems to get better against top competition. Swift is the heart and soul of that GA team. You can’t go wrong with the top RBs this year but Taylor was stuffed by both Oregon and OSU during big games this year. It left me with a tiny bit of a bad taste. I think OSU wins if Dobbins doesn’t get injured.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        I have
        1 Swift
        2 Dobbins
        3 Taylor

        And I’m really hoping we land one of those guys
        But even though I like Taylor, I can’t ignore those fumbles

    • sb7mvp says:

      Maybe he can fix it like Arian foster or Tiki Barber

  97. steveccnv says:

    Tim Knight says:
    January 7, 2020 at 8:53 pm
    For those on this board who are big draftniks, the next two years is your dream scenario. LOL

    I’m not a draftnik, but…guess where the 2020 draft will be?

    I’m going to try to make it for the first round.

  98. D says:

    Mike E
    January 7, 2020 at 8:34 pm

    Tim – I don’t think the formula only takes into account this year’s production. I think it takes last year’s, this year’s and the salary compensation the players were given. Just for example, If a team signs a guy from your team that had a great 2018, they give him a huge contract and then he gets hurt in training camp and misses the entire season, that shouldn’t mean you get nothing for that player. We’re still getting picks, but they won’t be 3rd RD picks, maybe 4th or 5th.
    its mostly based upon the contract he signed in FA, with other performance factors from this past year added in that kinda puts it in the +/- . For example, the things i have read suggest that the contract signed in FA pretty much puts you in the round discussion and the perfromance markers, pro-bowl nominations, etc move you up and down that scale. If you ranked as a top 3rd in off-season contract, and you were injured and/or didnt really do much as far as on the field contribution, you could scale back to a lower 3rd comp pick instead of a top one. If you were a pro-bowler for your new team, and were middle of the road contract wise, you could be a top 3rd round comp pick instead. Likewise for if you were a lower round 3rd by contract placement, you could roll down to a top 4th or up to a mid third, if that makes sense. The big part is the FA contract signed, with performance being more like tie breakers.

  99. D says:

    My guess with James is that we probably get a high 4th comp pick. I dont think it gets rolled down too far because he only played in 3 games, but i dont think he is going to be a third anymore. Wake wasnt going to net us much more than a 5th even if he had a good year, he didn’t sign a big contract, so id expect its going to be a low 6th at best, possibly high 7th.

  100. D says:

    Im not a fan of Taylor, i see too much DT3 in him. Lots of miles on those tires. I think he could have a really nice short career so if we are looking for a rookie contract guy with not much past it, id say Taylor should be considered. Personally dont think we need to go top tier Rb because all the tiers are close together. RB’s like Perine, Phillips, Harris, Vaughn, etc are all really quality guys who have starter ability and you going to get one of them anywhere from 2nd to at least lower 3rd if not lower 4th.

    • D says:

      Shit i forgot about Hill at MSU and Akers at FSU. Its a really upper heavy RB draft.

    • dbolt48 says:

      I caa was n understand some people’s hesitation w/ Taylor and mileage. I’ve watched him since he’s been at Wisconsin and never have I looked at him and thought he looked like DT3…..and still don’t. I wouldn’t pause at all taking Taylor, Swift, Dillon, or a few others. Dobbins I’m a little leery of unless we are truly going to a more RPO offense w/ a QB that’s a true threat to run.

    • bailbondmike says:

      D, I like Hill from Miss State. Not crazy about Akers. I watched tape on him and there is no second gear and looks like he is just lumbering along.

      I do like the idea of drafting 2 RB’s like a combo of Harris and Edwards-Helaire. I like Harris size. We need RB’s who are also good receivers. Don’t see that in Dobbins (2 bad drops that last game). Some other top names also haven’t caught many balls. We don’t need another butter hands Ballage.

  101. wyoming85 says:

    Your Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 5: Tua Tagovailoa, QB, Alabama (A)
    Round 1 Pick 18: Jeffrey Okudah, CB, Ohio State (A-)
    Round 1 Pick 27: Tyler Biadasz, C/OG, Wisconsin (B+)
    Round 2 Pick 5: Yetur Gross-Matos, DE/OLB, Penn State (B+)
    Round 2 Pick 24: Prince Tega Wanogho, OT, Auburn (A-)
    Round 3 Pick 5: JK Dobbins, RB, Ohio State (A+)

  102. Rockphin says:

    When the Bungles took Tua I started sweating. Man it would be awesome if this would happen, but it is probably impossible at this point.


    • The Flying Pig says:

      That would be a dream

      But Burrow ain’t falling to 5
      If you insert Tua at 5, it’s still a dream draft

  103. The Flying Pig says:

    Does anyone know if the OK center – Humphrey declares for the draft?

  104. Rockphin says:

    Miami Dolphins

    🔥 Undrafted free agent
    🔥 Practice squad
    🔥 Finished second among all NFL rookies in passes defensed this season (11) @FoetyGlock’s journey is just beginning 😤

    View image on Twitter

    He was the target of most of my Ire on Defense early in the season. Every time there was a busted Coverage or a big play there was #40 15 yards behind the play.

    It was nice that he actually progressed throughout the season and became at least a decent filler.

    • CavalierKong says:

      He was one of the big reasons to be be excited about this coaching staff moving forward. You could see his progression over the course of the season. I honestly can’t remember the last time I felt like we saw players get better at their craft as a season progressed, yet we saw it from a number of places this season.

    • Tim Knight says:

      That’s why sometimes you need patience with young players. 😉

  105. wyoming85 says:

  106. D says:

    Matt Miller, who I generally listen to thinks that Herbert might be more to Zac Taylors offense than Burrow. I don’t see why but I would really like for him to be right.

  107. D says:

    Dbolt, most of the RBs who got wore out in college burn out fast in the NFL. Certainly not all, AP comes to mind as one, but a lot more do. Also I’m comparing Taylor to DT3 in college. DT3 was a punishing runner in colleger, strong downhill back. My comparison is t to what DT3 became but what he was and I think part of the issue With DT3 was his over use in college. You might be right it might not be an issue but it’s cause for concern in my opinion

  108. CavalierKong says:


    I was thinking about what you said the other day regarding your friend who hates it when people say “no problem” instead of ‘thank you’ because it supposedly implies it might have been a problem. I sat on it because it annoyed me and I couldn’t figure out why. I think I’ve figured it out – it’s because it’s fucking stupid.

    If instead of saying thank you, I say ‘happy to help’, does that then imply I might help but be unhappy about it? What about if I say ‘my pleasure’ does it imply I only helped for self-gratification? or does ‘anytime’ imply I might have only helped you some of the time? No offense to you by friend proxy, but what an asinine pet peeve, lol.

    Tell your friend to get annoyed at the important things in life like people who use double negatives or the word misremembered. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go beat up the guy slurping his soup at the next table.

  109. twicethethe says:

    For all you draftniks….Jake Fromm just declared for the draft. Thoughts?

    • D says:

      He is probably an Alex Smith QB, i think he is pretty solid and he wont lose you many games but i don’t see high end elite QB traits. Wins with the right team around him, wont if he is asked to carry the team.

      • twicethethe says:

        Thanks – seems like a low mistake kind of QB (78 TD to 18 INT career).

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Yeah, he is

        But a lot of the qbs coming out have a low amount of ints

        Tua, Herbert and Burrow all have low ints

        On that subject Jordan Love is an interesting case
        20:17 in 2019
        32:6 in 2018


        That’s a pretty dramatic change

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Accurate and Smart

      But not necessarily athletic
      You know what you get with him

      Think Chad Pennington or Andy Dalton

  110. The Flying Pig says:

    When you invoke negative memories

  111. Tim Knight says:

    Did the Cowboys abide by the Rooney Rule? I feel like it went from no word on Jason Garrett to he’s out and McCarthy is in.

    • Rockphin says:

      they were talking about that on ESPN today when I was at lunch. I couldn’t hear what the panel was saying though. I could only read the topic “How can the NFL fix it’s problem with minority hires”

    • Rockphin says:

      personally I find set asides and quotas repugnant.
      If I spend a 1.5 BILLION to purchase a company (team) then I should be able to hire whomever the hell I want to.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Yeah but we all know why the Rooney Rule is in place. There is only one person of color at GM and only three as HCs in the league. The Dolphins happen to be the only team with both.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Wasn’t it the Beatles who said “money can’t buy me racial disparities”

        FYI – the Rooney rule doesn’t say who you must hire, it states who you must interview (At a minimum)

  112. The Flying Pig says:


    I agree – sometimes the worst players turn out to be good coaches
    If this were a sliding scale – Columbia would be the next Don Shula 😜

  113. The Flying Pig says:

  114. Tim Knight says:

    Piggy, do you know who the Cowboys interviewed to satisfy the Rooney Rule?

    • Tim Knight says:

      Oh okay. Never heard about it.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        I remember hearing about Lewis interviewing with somebody…so it must have been the cowboys

        I personally like Marvin Lewis a lot
        I would have liked to see him with a franchise that spends $

  115. Tim Knight says:

    LOL @ Piggy on “money can’t buy me racial disparities”

  116. CavalierKong says:

    I’m ok with the Rooney rule, I just don’t know what more they can do to encourage hiring minorities. Short of creating a ‘minority quota’ per team and forcing teams into hires, what else is there?

    • Tim Knight says:

      Yeah the problem is there is a loophole. Teams interview minority candidates to satisfy the Rooney Rule even when they know they want to hire someone else. Not sure how to correct that or if it should be corrected.

      • CavalierKong says:

        I personally don’t think it can be corrected.I mean they can create surface/PR solutions like the Rooney Rule, but it really just comes down to a shift in the way owners regard hiring.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Forcing hires to meet quotas is actually illegal (not criminally)

      So they can’t do that

      I don’t think it’s the rules that needs to change
      I think the Rooney rule has had some positive results

      But these owners are….well they always disappoint me

      I don’t know why Eric Beinenemy, the OC of a high powered offense, interviewed multiple times with no offer as a practical matter

      I think it’s safe to say that when owners fire a coach they already know who they want to hire or have narrowed it down – so it’s hard to change that mind when it’s already made up. The Rooney rule doesn’t (and can’t) address that, and that’s not necessarily inheritly discriminatory, that’s just falling for a particular coach (in some cases)

      I mean if Bill belicheat hit the market, how many owners would line up to hire him – everyone. On a lesser degree that happens with lesser coaches. The nfl doesn’t do a good job bringing in new blood

      The less fluid an industry is, the less a likely it is to change and the fo is not very fluid at all

      • CavalierKong says:

        Beinenemy is the one who comes to mind immediately for me. Why hasn’t this guy gotten a chance?

        I wasn’t serious about a minority quota, lol. Not sure how that rule would look. You must have a minimum of four non-white coaches/admin people at all times, lol.

        So, I know he looks white, but here is his mom’s, mom’s birth certificate showing his great-grandpa was actually half native american, lol.

      • CavalierKong says:

        LOL, all teams are required to keep on record a complete DNA profile of all staff members for league perusal.

        (Hope I’m not offending anyone with this. I know it’s not necessarily a laughing matter, I’m just taking the thought to a ridiculous conclusion.)

  117. bailbondmike says:

    Piggy, that is what I said about Fromm. He’s smart and reads defenses in seconds of breaking the huddle. Only knock on him is arm strength and compared him to Pennington as well.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Honestly I think he’s got a stronger arm than Pennington ever had

      He might turn out to be a pretty good pro

  118. dbolt48 says:

    This is pretty Funny😆

  119. Tim Knight says:

    Eric Bieniemy might be the Browns target and they’re waiting on him. Then again do they even have a new GM yet?

  120. Tim Knight says:

    The pick we get from the Texans might be a good spot to get one of the top RBs. You get them for 5 years and then you can move on without paying them big money. I know that sounds shitty but that’s the business. It’s not a position of longevity with the exception of the great ones.

  121. The Flying Pig says:

    Hearing good things about Cesar Ruiz form Michigan
    He’s a center
    Pretty athletic and played OG asa freshman

    It’s a good year for centers and generally for OL
    I think we got to exploit that

  122. wyoming85 says:

    If an owner just interviews all “Black” coaches.
    Is that a violation of the “Rooney Rule”??????
    Or does that just get you a free ride on everyone’s shoulders?

  123. pheloniusphish says:

    Regarding the Rooney Rule discussion – 3 black coaches out of 32 is just under 10%. Blacks make up 12% of the US population. Seems fairly proportionate to me.

    • New Age says:

      Exactly. Bieniemy,is great prospect but ESPN, and the narrative they must promote every year during hiring season, is that the NFL is somehow not black enough. America has more Latinos and I’ve not seeing the extreme outrage for more Latino hires but when you have a narrative…brass said you must constantly harp on it. Makes me turn off ESPN around this time every year and my radio options aren’t great.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Not a lot of Latinos are in the NFL. Rivera was hired without any other interviews because he met the minority hiring rule. It’s basically an extension of Affirmative Action.

      • New Age says:

        It is. The nasty stuff I’ve heard on ESPN because some white dude under Belichick was hired before a black guy in KC was kinda sickening. If you look at the hiring process so far this year; Belichick guy because they always get hired and Flores proved they can coach outside NE, experienced HC with a ring, college coach that was probably based on how well the Arizona experiment worked out. Do those sound like really crazy hires? Racist hires? 3 black head coaches is not off from normal population stat.

  124. Mike E. says:

    D – I think the “no problem” thing is stupid too. You guys think I’m a curmudgeon, you should meet my friend. lol

    • pheloniusphish says:

      My email is gunnycrab so you amateurs can’t get in line

    • ElephantRider says:

      Its definitely an old person issue. I have dealt with it.

      Also saying “guys” when there’s a female thats part of the group of people. Times change and so does language, but some people can’t adapt.

      If you think I’m disrespectful for saying no problem or guys, then you really won’t like what’s coming next.

  125. ElephantRider says:

    I think its hilarious how people here and everywhere were all over John Dorsey’s jock. Somebody (me) said better hold your horses because he was just a kid in a candy shop with mommy’s credit card. I could have done the same job he did, that now has turned into what again?

    • Tim Knight says:

      No need to make it a weird sexual thing. Piggy probably has an image for this. LOL

      Dorsey had a good resume. There is something going on in CLE. They can’t seem to find a direction. Like they’re all wearing lenses too thick and they’re all falling into the river or lake. LOL

  126. Tim Knight says:

    You know what it is folks? None of us here are racist. We dig into all sorts of dialogue. Our country is becoming really sensitive in a sad way. We protest everything! What’s the word that is more extreme than absurd?

    • ElephantRider says:

      It’s the fact that morons are now given a voice on social media and people become sheep reading their garbage.
      I find it hilarious that people waste their time being angry at anything they can think of. I especially love the new thing they do where they find something somebody said 25 years ago to lose their shit over.

  127. wyoming85 says:

    Here is an interesting option!
    If you haven’t watched him, You should check it out

    • dbolt48 says:

      I definitely think he’s an option if they bypass the RD1&R2 guys. I’d actually be all for him as a 2nd QB selection if Mia goes to a true RPO based offense. If they grab Herbert or Love in RD1 then him a little later. Gives Gailey 2fits to run his O.

    • bailbondmike says:

      Yeah, I posted this video a couple weekends ago. I drafted him a few times in the later rounds. Was thinking he might be one we could draft and stash on PS for a year without getting poached. Dude has some speed as well. Gordon and McDonald are my favorite run and shoot QB’s. I think Gordon has more accuracy for the tight window throws.

  128. New Age says:


    Talking about McDonald, one of your scenarios possibly has us picking 2 QBs. Do you think Rosen isn’t a fit in the new Gailey system? What is everyone else’s thoughts on Gailey and Rosen or just the direction will will take after this draft? Fitz is 100% in for at least a year. At least one draft pick. What are the thoughts?

    • dbolt48 says:

      I think Gailey is versatile enough to work w/ multiple QBs, but I’ve been seeing rumors that Flores wanted Roman as his OC last year because he wanted to have an RPO based offense. Gailey excels at that and if that’s what will be installed then I don’t think that suits Rosen at all. If that rumor is off and you’re doing a traditional based QB offense then I think Rosen will be fine.

      • dbolt48 says:

        If they did go to a RPO heavy O I could see Risen being moved to Detroit as part of a trade up isn’t the team went that route.

  129. wyoming85 says:

  130. Mike E. says:

    NEW BLOG UP!!!

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