Up and coming star? Andrew Van Ginkel

If you’re a regular reader here, you know I just highlighted our 2nd first round pick, Jaelan Phillips in my last article. Now it’s the guy on the other side, WOLB Andy Van Ginkel. I think Phillips will be an NFL star, maybe even this season, but I think we may have a star in the making in AVG. A little shorter and a little lighter than Phillips, AVG is a fast moving, agile athlete. Phillips is 6’5 260 while AVG is 6’3 241. Both ran the 40 in 4.56. AVG really excels in that short burst speed and agility running the 10 yard in 1.56 and the 3 cone at 6.86, fantastic for his size. Many WR’s and DB’s can’t post times that good. His 4.14 20 yard shuttle shows elite quick burst speed. Speed is his game so don’t expect AVG to ever exceed 245 lbs, he’s not a power player.

What can we expect from this much unheralded player who quietly made himself known to Miami Dolphins fans? Playing in only 46% of the snaps, AVG posted some heady stats in limited playing time. 48 total tackles (29 solo), 10 QB hits, 5.5 sacks, 3 FF’s, 1 FR returned for a TD, 7 TFL and 4 passes defensed. Well rounded numbers showing legitimate versatility. With KVN gone this season, AVG is the started opposite Phillips who will be playing the strong side. Will AVG be able to withstand more snaps and will his body be able to endure more snaps? We’re going to find out because I believe he will be given every chance to do that and will play as many snaps as he can. One thing I do know is the league has definitely shifted towards speed, and this year, the Dolphins defense has the speed to match up. Even big Benardrick McKinney who will be side by side in the middle with Jerome Baker can run well. He’s the sole LB who doesn’t cut the sub 4.6 threshold but his 4.66 is nothing to sneeze at considering his 6’4 260 size. McKinney is a thumper that can move though, and that’s good considering Elandon Roberts is returning from an injury sustained the second to last week of the season. He may not available to the Dolphins defense until mid season.

If more playing time is better for AVG then it’s not unrealistic to think AVG may nearly double his sack total to 10 or more, and his QB hit number to close to 20. With the added attention Phillips and Ogbah will likely garner, it’s not crazy really. The one thing we don’t know is what AVG’s body can endure. Some guys are relief pitchers simply because they get exposed the longer they are out there. Will that be true of AVG? I for one don’t believe so, I think he will shine once again, but time will tell.


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1,368 Responses to Up and coming star? Andrew Van Ginkel

  1. Howard tosses the Pins under the bus on social media, what a classless act

    However, it IS concerning the Phins cant retain talent, another first round pick/ pro bowler will go to some other team

    this team wont be winning any super bowls, until we can draft , develop, and maintain the talent needed to do so

    • steveccnv says:

      You’re putting the cart before the horse

      It’s concerning, that we can’t retain talent, when the talent is still on the team?

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I don’t really think it’s classless

      I hope the FO doesn’t take it personally. I don’t think they will.

      The story isn’t even close to the end on this one

      He may be a Dolphin for life
      I’m not sure he’s goes anywhere anytime soon anyway

  2. steveccnv says:

    Looking at the cap, looks like we’ll have about 25 guys on their rookie contracts, but this team is by no means green

    We have a good mix of youth and vets, when you have too many 30+ vets you’re more likely to have injuries

  3. bailbondmike says:

    Actually, after another cup of coffee I think I want to retract the prove it deal.

    He is worth much more via trade then hoping to get a 3rd round comp after he hits F/A.

  4. The Flying Pig says:

    Here you go

  5. “im not happy, and have requested a trade” Xavien Howard

    Dolphin for life? not hardly, sounds more like hes already moved on in his head and heart

    ill be surprised if hes a Dolphin for life, he has not shown that he wants to be, by holding out, and slamming the team on social media

    • The Flying Pig says:

      “I’m not happy and I have requested to win the lottery”

      There that settles it, I should win the lottery soon bc I said this

      Or maybe it’s just hot air

      • agreed his words could be hot air, but his actions arent, they are speaking what hes feeling

        we need players that show up , and dont slam the team to win anything meaningful

      • The Flying Pig says:

        He did show up to training camp

        He showed up yesterday
        He showed up today

        Where are you going with this?

  6. bailbondmike says:

    I think there is more to this and it involves the health of his knee(s).

    Yeah, he bitched about being worth the highest paid CB. If not in the NFL at least on the team. I think he is really trying to justify more guarantees in another restructured deal.

    Think about it. He is good to go this season as after the 5th day of the this new league year his 2021 salary became fully guaranteed.

    If he were to have more knee issues this season, Miami has an “out” clause in his contract after the 2021 season. They can cut him. He could be on the street with his bad knees and only 1.4 mil prorated signing bonus for 2022 and 2023. Nothing in 2024.

    The only guarantee he has left is a 6.7 mil injury only guarantee if he is on the roster after the start of the 2022 league year. Zero guarantees for 2023 and 2024.

    I think he is worried about his financial future and his knees being able to carry him that far.

  7. The Flying Pig says:

    Personally I think the pants are gratuitous, but he is handling it like a professional

  8. The Flying Pig says:

  9. The Flying Pig says:

  10. The Flying Pig says:

  11. mf13ss says:

    bailbondmike says:
    July 28, 2021 at 10:48 am
    I think there is more to this and it involves the health of his knee(s)…

    • mf13ss says:

      David Canter favorited my tweet. IMO, this all but validates that the knee(s) are the issue. X wants to make $$$ before his career ends prematurely.

      We’ll be paying less in the long run (see his current contract) vs giving him a smaller contract, making him the highest-paid CB in the league over the short term.

      • mf13ss says:

        I phrased that last paragraph very awkwardly. We’ll pay less money by giving X a new 3-year contract.

      • steveccnv says:

        Not really following the logic, so we’ll be paying him less in the long run, because 21m for 3 years is somehow less than 15m a year for 4 years?

        X has 4 years left on his contract

    • steveccnv says:

      Front-loading the contract would require cap space.

      You really only do that when you have cap to burn, we don’t

  12. steveccnv says:

    Just play hard ball with him.

    Don’t recall another player being so pissed off about their contract, just so they can say they’re the highest paid on the team, when they’re already highly paid.

    Seems like someone is pissing in his ear, and likely his wife

    • The Flying Pig says:

      He’s the 6th highest paid cb in the league
      The 5th highest is Byron Jones who makes a little more Than 1m more than him

      I’m usually sympathetic to players, and I accept that it’s just business

      But he’s a little out of line in his demands

      He didn’t sign a bad contract in 2019
      He’s not really underpaid

      He just happens to play on a team that really values DBs and pays them

  13. The Flying Pig says:

    I’m not so sure the Dolphins want to make him The highest paid CB on the league, even if it’s a front loaded contract they can get out of in year 4

    He is already the 6th highest paid cb in 2021
    He was the highest when he signed in 2019

    • steveccnv says:

      Besides the fact that there’s no reason to do it other than to make him happy.

      Wonder how that would go over in the real world.

      Boss I’m your best employee and I want to be paid the most (even though you just gave me a new contract)

      In the real world what someone else is paid is nonya

      • The Flying Pig says:

        I don’t really get it

        Maybe if it’s a ploy to get the Dolphins to get him closer to Jones or equal to Jones

        We are talking about a 1.45 million dollar difference between their two contracts
        It’s not a huge difference between those two

        Maybe the Dolphins bring him up a little and it pays for him to make these moves

        I don’t think their is extra $ out there – but I would not be upset if the Dolphins increased his $ to make him equal to Jones…anything more is a bit overpaid though, so I wouldn’t go crazy trying to satisfy his demands at the expense of the salary cap

        He needs to relax and realize he’s paid really well

        Like I said, I don’t care about tHe theatrics of it – if he’s reporting to camp, practicing and come September playing hard – I don’t care if he hires a marching band to negotiate his contract….as long as he’s out there, it’s much ado about nothing to me

      • steveccnv says:

        Feel the same way, and if he wants to be pissed off so be it

  14. steveccnv says:

    If he doesn’t knock this shit off he’s going to get a new nickname X-hole

  15. The Flying Pig says:

    As long as X doesn’t steal from the Dolphins pantry….

    Did you guys see this story


    • steveccnv says:

      Don’t give a fuck, if X steals from the Fins pantry🙄

      Seriously though, what a maroon.

      Some people just can’t help themselves

  16. bailbondmike says:

    We’ll be paying less in the long run
    I don’t see that.

    Right now, we have an out clause in X’s contract after this season. We can cut X after 2021 and it will only cost us 2.8 mil in dead money (1.4 in 2022 and 2023). A new contract will certainly create much more dead money in guarantees. That is one of the things (probably the main thing) that X wants, more guarantees.

  17. bailbondmike says:

    He needs to relax and realize he’s paid really well
    I agree Piggy. Again, I think it is the lack of guarantees after this season.

  18. ocalarob says:

    and to think just 3 short weeks ago you were telling us how right X was and how wrong the F.O was on this matter, remember bragging about 10 int and how jones wasn’t good enough? remember i said he wouldn’t have gotten 10 picks had jones not been there and you said Jones had nothing to do with it?
    why the flip flop?
    David C (@DolphinsSB52) says:
    July 28, 2021 at 10:51 am
    agreed his words could be hot air, but his actions arent, they are speaking what hes feeling

    we need players that show up , and dont slam the team to win anything meaningful

  19. sb7mvp says:

    Regardless of what X wants or why he wants it, it’s not really that big of a deal. Some of you act like his check will be coming out of your wallets. lol

    • mf13ss says:

      I pretty much agree with this sentiment, and I do not want to lose him over the matter.

    • stangerx says:

      It wouldn’t be a big deal if we were just talking about Ross paying an extra say $5 mil per year, but this is cap money. That’s a mid-line starter. If we were talking the Yankees and Steinbrenner folks would want us to have the hightest paid roster in the league.

    • steveccnv says:

      No one acts like it’s coming out of their wallet.

      Stanger is correct saying it’s about the salary cap

  20. mf13ss says:

    bailbondmike says:
    July 28, 2021 at 1:12 pm

    …Right now, we have an out clause in X’s contract after this season. We can cut X after 2021 and it will only cost us 2.8 mil in dead money (1.4 in 2022 and 2023). A new contract will certainly create much more dead money in guarantees. That is one of the things (probably the main thing) that X wants, more guarantees.
    That’s a solid point and something I wasn’t aware of previously. We pretty much have him right where we want him.

    IF he repeats his solid performance of ’20, THEN perhaps we should talk about a new contract next year.

    Nevertheless, I don’t want to lose him! What a quagmire.

  21. mf13ss says:

    Relevant to X’s situation…

    • steveccnv says:

      For some it’s all about the benjamins and others like Brady it’s all about getting the ring

      • mf13ss says:

        I can’t disagree with that at all, and great point.

      • mf13ss says:

        As of RIGHT NOW, I think that’s what our FO should tell X.

      • steveccnv says:

        Telling him that would piss him off more

        When you aren’t supporting your entire family, like I’m sure is the case with Brady, it’s easier to take less to win.

        X likely has someone pissing in his cherios

  22. mf13ss says:

    steveccnv says:
    July 28, 2021 at 12:37 pm
    Front-loading the contract would require cap space.

    You really only do that when you have cap to burn, we don’t
    Noted. I feel when it’s all said and done, we’ll have enough cap space to do what we want. We shall see.

    • steveccnv says:

      We will, but that was part of the problem with the last contract, his last year on his rookie deal he got a good size bonus, so instead of paying him his 2m he got over 10m, then the real years of the contract he made less than 15m.

      In my opinion I think part of his problem is the 2021 cash payout only being 12.1m

    • steveccnv says:

      Howard wants money shifted from future years, 2024, to this year, according to Armando Salguero. That $4 million would make him the highest-paid player on the roster, over Bryon Jones. It is clear that Jones’ contract is an issue for Howard.

      Then next year he’ll want a new contract

      Kind of seems like X is acting as if he doesn’t have 4 years left in his knees

      • stangerx says:

        So they shift that $4 mil and then he’s on the books for $7 mil in 2024. Sounds like he either doesn’t plan on being here in 2024 or will handle that part later.

  23. stangerx says:

    X is gonna have to get over that he should be the hightest paid corner in the league. Jalen Ramsey and Marlon Humphrey are 2 and 3 years younger than him. And he has the health history, including knee.

    Even if he thinks he’s the better player right now that doesn’t mean you get more in long term contract at a position where turning 30 is a sign of the end of the road (or at least switching to safety).

  24. Tim Knight says:

    • stangerx says:

      Not sure why Omar put up vid of a fair catch. He’d be a natural choice for a deep returner. Don’t know enough to know if best for the close in “hands” guy.

      • Tim Knight says:

        It’s just a drill. I only posted it because he is practicing punt returns.

      • steveccnv says:

        Think he’s saying he doesn’t have Grant hands, and Grant your days are numbered

        playoff game is on the line we need a big return, who you gonna put out there Grant or Waddle

      • stangerx says:

        Tim — and the news of it was interesting.
        Steve — I think your “need a big return” is the key for me. Wouldn’t want Waddle doing punt returns full time. As the break it guy….. that’s different.

  25. mf13ss says:

    According to Spotrac, we’re currently $7.6M under the cap (Top 51, that’s the rule).

    We’ve got an extraordinarily crowded WR room, to boot. Ridding ourselves (cut or trade) of Jakeem Grant [($4.7M) Waddle is our new PR/KR] and Allen Hurns ($2.9M) would save us $7.6M more in cap space… for a grand total of $15.2M in cap space.

    Now let us meet X halfway and let X meet us halfway. We’ll move money from his future to make him the highest-paid player on the team (not the highest-paid CB in the NFL). With $15.2M in cap space, that’s very doable for both sides.

    • steveccnv says:

      That’s not exactly how the cap works, Hurns and Grant have some dead money

      • mf13ss says:

        Correct: $1.8M for Grant and $2.1M for for Hurns: $3.9M total. Not a huge amount to swallow, but I hear ya.

    • mf13ss says:

      We could give, say, X a $4M/year pay raise this year (borrowing from his future)… and still have the possibility of rolling $10M of cap savings over to next season.

    • stangerx says:

      Figuring out how to give Howard a raise is way down the list of reasons to do so or not. The extra $3 or $4 million you talk about can be found in the cushions underneath the cap sofa. They can always roll cap hits forward.

      • mf13ss says:

        Agreed, but we do NOT want to lose X, IMO.

      • steveccnv says:

        No we don’t, but he has very little leverage.

        He may not have too many years left, you think he’s going to sit out, and lose 12m, if he didn’t want to lose 50k per day?

    • steveccnv says:

      Sportrac does their cap weird for the top 51 and it’s not accurate, we have about 8.1m

      They count all the dead cap of the guys below the top 51, the league doesn’t.

      Technically it will count when the season begins, but some guys in the top 51 won’t be on the team.

      We also have to cap count the PS and guys 52 and 53

  26. New Age says:

    Piggy has gotten me to come around. I’m willing to let X raid the Dolphins pantry every other Tuesday and every fourth Friday during the season.

    X, your turn?

  27. steveccnv says:


    An opening game WR room could look like Waddle and Wilson on the outside, with Bowden in the slot, Hurns, Grant and Hollins rounding out the next 3.

    Don’t think Parker or Williams will be out though

    • stangerx says:

      How the F did Parker end up on the PUP?
      He played in the last game.
      No news of off season surgery.
      Did he get injured during the condition tests yesterday?

  28. mf13ss says:


    In the event we DO change our mind and trade X, may it be to the Carolina Panthers. They have the #4 most cap space in the NFL, their roster looks like crap, and Sam Darnold is going to be their starting QB.

    They need CB help, can afford X, are out of our conference, and I’d take as much as I could get from their future Draft classes.

    • mf13ss says:

      I’d actually be very good with their 2022 1st rounder and 2023 2nd rounder.

    • stangerx says:

      Any team would want Howard. Q is will they pay what it takes, including to him in a new contract.

      If it comes to that obviously hope we get the best deal for the team. Also hope he goes to a dog of a team.

  29. stangerx says:

    Interesting from Barry Jackson.
    “Deiter stands very much in the mix for the Dolphins’ starting center job, at the very least on equal footing as former Baltimore Ravens starter Matt Skura, if not ahead of him.”

    Deiter says: “I was super receptive to playing center and very comfortable. I started at Wisconsin at center my first two years. It wasn’t like it was something totally brand new to me. I wasn’t worried. I wasn’t angry. I was just excited they thought I could play another position well enough to help us out.”

  30. mf13ss says:

    • Tim Knight says:

      These teams inquiring about Howard have to know he won’t be cheap in trade compensation and money.

      • stangerx says:

        Relatively speaking think what he wants will be more than the trade cost. And a playoff contender would make sense. Much as I’d like him to go to a rebuilding team his shelf life doesn’t fit with one.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Yeah a rebuilding team doesn’t make much sense.

      • steveccnv says:

        It makes sense to me😜

  31. stangerx says:

    They just made the thing 4 years ago. Not about just Honus Wagner anymore.
    “A Mahomes 2017 Panini National Treasures 1-of-1, NFL shield, autographed card sold for $4.3 million on Wednesday, the most paid for a football card in history. “

  32. ocalarob says:

    stangerx says:
    July 28, 2021 at 2:43 pm
    Not sure why Omar put up vid of a fair catch.

    I don’t think he was signaling for a fair catch, i think he was blocking that hot S FL sun out of his eyes, it’s brutal to have to look into.

  33. ocalarob says:

    maybe Atlanta may want Howard, they certainly would need him and will get a good look at him in the joint practices

  34. ocalarob says:

    RIP Dusty Hill, ZZ TOP

  35. ocalarob says:

    Bass player, lead singer on this tune

  36. CavalierKong says:

    Just catching up on the board. Some thoughts…

    Loved the Logan’s Run reference, New Age.

    “Personally I think the pants are gratuitous…” LOL

    If I had a $990,000 salary for the year, I’m not stealing food, stationary, or art supplies and risking that job. WTF?! That dude’s mother needs to beat his ass.

    I’m happy the Dolphins have allegedly told Howard they aren’t entertaining trades. Play another stellar season, X. Then you’ll get a look. Unless he’s thinking of retiring or screwing up his career, the Dolphins have him in mate.

    I think a trade is possible, but it won’t be for anything less than two #1s or a very good player and another high pick.

    • Tim Knight says:

      If it was a player in a trade, what position do you think we would seek? Another corner? LOL

      • CavalierKong says:

        Definitely a WR, lol.

        No the only thing that makes sense to me would be pass rush, Chandler Jones was actually who I was thinking when I typed it. But do we want to trade one disgruntled player for another. And he wants to be paid too, if we’re doing that, why not just pay Howard?

    • stangerx says:

      We ain’t getting two #1s for him. Maybe a #1 and a #2.

      • CavalierKong says:

        That is why we aren’t trading him. He’s too valuable to us to let him go for anything less than that.

      • stangerx says:

        Think you underestimate the Minkah factor. About more than what happens on the field.

  37. CavalierKong says:

    Oh, and I see Parker is on the PUP. He’s so injury prone, they probably just put him there proactively. Or maybe Parker caught Williams’ foot injury. Parker should have been wearing a mask for protection…

    • Tim Knight says:

      LOL, it’s probably the stuff he always deals with; foot injuries and hammy’s. It might just be precautionary while we take a good look at all the other WRs. The coaches know what Parker can do.

    • stangerx says:

      Least one camp reporter (not sure who) said it was nothing to really worry about.

  38. CavalierKong says:

    Someone posted the link above, but this is for the lazy f^ckers like me who would rather read it here, lol.

    — Practice began without four veterans who were placed on the Physically Unable to Perform list, the most notable being wide receiver DeVante Parker.

    The others were fellow wide receiver Preston Williams, veteran guard/tackle D.J. Fluker and linebacker Elandon Roberts.

    — Will Fuller V dropped a perfectly thrown pass by Tua Tagovailoa on the first play of a passing drill after position drills.

    — Rookie first-round pick Jaylen Waddle joined Jakeem Grant and Lynn Bowden Jr. in fielding punts.

    — Tua’s first pass in a seven-on-seven drill was a short completion to tight end Adam Shaheen.

    — Tua later had a nice 15-yard completion to Waddle.

    — Linebacker Jerome Baker picked off Tagovailoa in that seven-on-seven drill.

    — Allen Hurns got open deep but Jacoby Brissett overthrew him.

    — The first play of the first team drills of training camp featured a short completion from Tagovailoa to running back Myles Gaskin.

    — Grant made a nice diving catch on a low Tagovailoa pass.

    — Hurns got open again deep in a team drill but couldn’t down with Brissett’s slightly overthrown pass.

    — Robert Foster, who looked good catching passes in the spring, came down with a nice snag on a high throw by Brissett.

    — Fuller made a diving catch on a low Tagovailoa pass.

    — Linebacker Andrew Van Ginkel had a second interception against Tua.

    — Tagovailoa threw a touchdown pass to Shaheen after rolling out.

    — On the final plays of practice, Tagovailoa threw a 65-yard touchdown pass to Albert Wilson.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Here’s the thing about practice, players are practicing and trying different things. When I see Tua threw completions but some were low throws how do the reporters know if that’s not intentional? Low throws are hard to pick off. Brady’s legacy is based on thousands of low throws.

      The TD to Wilson was also reported to be a bit behind him and Wilson said it was a great throw.

      • CavalierKong says:

        Yeah, I don’t read this stuff and draw any conclusions. It’s just nice to read about some plays in camp. They could probably be putting out things like “Tua drank a coke zero at lunch today” and I’d still be thankful to get the news, lol.

      • Tim Knight says:


        I almost feel that the local reporters try to calm any Tua hype and keep the Watson rumors alive. It’s annoying.

  39. ocalarob says:

    jesus just left chicago

  40. CavalierKong says:

    Stang, I know you have compared the X situation to Minkah a few times. To me, this situation is different.

    Flores was new and trying to establish himself and a culture. A distraction then was potentially far more dangerous than it is now that we have an established team and culture and with Flores guys in the locker room. So we jettisoned Minkah, whereas if Minkah happened today, I think we may keep him. We lost on that Minkah trade. But it was necessary to ensure he didn’t hamper the team which was still building the ground floor.

    Today, I think the Dolphins don’t really care that Howard has been griping to the media as long as he shows up and plays. Remember, he made similar comments last year in October, but we didn’t trade him this offseason.

    Howard would have to take this to another level before that stuff factors in IMO. Now that the Fins have allegedly told him they aren’t trading him, we’ll see if he turns it up and starts badmouthing the owner and the coach or something like acting out. That may change things, but I don’t see that happening. To this point, he’s been a professional when it’s time to suit up.

    Back to Minkah. He was an unproven talent. He had a lot of upside and showed some potential, but it wasn’t proven. Howard is a bonafide all-pro. You don’t trade a star player for a single pick. And in the case of Howard his value to us may be more than he’s actually worth on the market(i.e. we may not get two 1s for him, but that is what it would take to pry him away from us IMO.)

    We have him locked up for years, and he is a key cog in our defense, so why trade him for decent value, you have to wow us if you want him IMO.

    • Tim Knight says:


    • stangerx says:

      All great points about why the situation with Howard might be different, but also hard to ignore how similar the situation with Minkah was.

      And will be the first to admit don’t know what will happen with Howard. Do know he’s been real emotional about this. You saw that one vid. Earlier this year he said he was gonna make the Phins “pay” for paying Jones and drafting Iggy on the open internet. Nothing he has done indicates he has a different game plan now.

      Heck — he just demanded a trade yesterday.

      • CavalierKong says:

        It’ll be talked about in the media and on this board ad nauseum, and we’ll see it play out over the next month, give or take. If it plays out the way you’ve projected, I’ll be sure to give you your kudos, lol. 🙂

      • Tim Knight says:

        Minkah was about position clarification that bothered him and his Mom. I think it was about future contracts based on position and not just a Swiss Army knife DB. But it wasn’t about a raise. Howard wants to be paid at the top of the corner market.

      • stangerx says:

        Cav — we very well might not trade X, but my guess is the main reason will be cause other teams aren’t willing to give him the contract he wants. Why have been saying they should let his agent explore a trade.

      • CavalierKong says:

        I will say the first thing I said almost two months ago, before any media heads seemed to be giving it any real consideration, was that X had no leverage at all. It wasn’t until the Dolphins didn’t make any moves and training camp closed in that the media started to actually talk about that. Till then they seemed to think it was a foregone conclusion that we’d trade him.

        Most likely when all is said and done, just like everything else, we’ll all be a little right and a little wrong, lol.

      • stangerx says:

        Agreed Tim. Still left with two defensive backs who demanded trades with little actual leverage though.

      • CavalierKong says:

        Stang, if a team is exploring a trade, they already know it means giving him a raise at least above Jones, so I doubt they come calling unless they are willing to do that. The team has allegedly said they will listen to offers, but have no plans to trade him. That means they want top compensation.

    • stangerx says:

      Cav — few bucks btwn Jones and Ramsey. And maybe they are willing to pay Ramsey for just a year or two rather than the four on X’s contract. Doubt they know what’s on Howard’s mind. I don’t. So why not check out?

      • CavalierKong says:

        Howard hasn’t said anything that would lead me to believe he’s looking for Ramsey money. Both taking his statements at face value and reading between the lines, everything points to him being pissed we gave Jones more than him, and he wants to be paid more than Jones.

        That said, you’re right we don’t know what’s on Howard’s mind and if he wants Ramsey money, he’s overshooting IMO, and you’d be right that it would be good for him to find out he isn’t getting that.

  41. Tim Knight says:

    I wish we’d have less drama in the offseason than we currently have. Tank for Tua, get rid of Tua and trade for Watson, now the X situation. I hope by week 1 we know what our team is so we can just roll with it.

  42. Tim Knight says:

  43. stangerx says:

    As usual Mando has the best inside look into what went down inside the organization. You can not like his football judgment or writing, but the guy is hooked in. This time including with the X’s agent.

    Includes: “They apparently don’t like the idea of setting the precedent of reworking a standing contract, according to a source. And they’ve made it clear to Howard they have concerns about his injury history.”

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/xavien-howard-asked-dolphins-move-042857377.html (no paywall)

    • CavalierKong says:

      Basically confirms a lot of stuff that has been talked about on our board, with one exception. It sounds like Howard’s demands were even less than we expected. Howard wanted to be paid more than Jones and proposed that back end money be moved to this year (instead of just upping this year’s money to more than Jones like I suggested). It would have kicked the can down the road for a year. The Dolphins are playing hardball.

      By the way, Stang, I appreciate when you post non paywall stuff from Mando. Sometimes I have to reset my ‘puter even on the incognito screen to get those articles from the Herald, which is annoying. Cheers

      • stangerx says:

        De nada on the nonpaywall info…. run into that myself. Not so sure about asking for $4 mil as not much though. That would put him into Humphries range. And don’t think anyone believes he’ll be on the team in 2024 at the adjusted amount for that year.

      • CavalierKong says:

        Did I say not much? No, I said less than we expected. At least it was definitely less than anything I saw anyone on the board put forth.

        And Howard is set to make 13.5 mill in 2021, 4 mil puts him at 17.5.

      • CavalierKong says:

        I did say ‘not that big a cost’ below, so I concede that is equivalent to ‘not much’, lol. But the point was overall it was less than was generally thought.

      • stangerx says:

        You have to factor in the signing bonus. If I give you a $50 mil bonus at signing and then $1 mil per year are you making $1 mil? His average on the contract is $15 mil+. With the $4 he asked for I end up at over $19 mil for this year.

      • CavalierKong says:

        Yeah, actually you just have to look at the contract details. His base salary is 12.075 mil, his signing bonus is 1.4 mil, and his workout bonus is 25 thousand. His salary for 2021 is 13.5 million.


      • stangerx says:

        Maybe I’m just good at headlines. “Xavien Howard signed a 5 year, $75,250,000 contract with the Miami Dolphins, including a $7,000,000 signing bonus, $39,260,641 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $15,050,000.”

      • CavalierKong says:

        Yeah amazingly, they don’t usually break down every year of actual salary in a headline nor when they are giving the broad strokes of a contract, instead they just give basic details and an overall average. It doesn’t mean there isn’t variation in his annual salary.

        If he gets cuts 2 years before the end of the contract, what happens to that average? Lo and behold that ‘average’ would change.

      • stangerx says:

        Agree the average can be misleading on those back ended contracts, but X’s salary is pretty much the same every year. Not sure why he is making less than say last or the year before. That $15 mil came from somewhere unless they just screwed up.

    • CavalierKong says:

      Because the ‘headline’ doesn’t take into account it was an extension, and part of that extension money was a roster bonus to increase his salary for 2019 because he had outplayed his rookie contract and was only making a little over two mill that year.

      And because I know your next move, I’ll say right now, that wasn’t the team saying ok we’ll give you a bunch of money, but you don’t get it until next year unless whatever we give you this year we’re going to say part of this also counts towards your 2021 salary. That was the team saying we’ll extend you and increase your salary this year.

      • CavalierKong says:

        Somehow I moved up a level in the thread, lol.

      • CavalierKong says:

        Actually, he was scheduled to make under 2 mil in 2019.

      • stangerx says:

        You win Cav. 🙂

        Only reason it really matters is cause of what he might be looking for anyhow. Sorta guessing the Dolphins have my take on it though and X yours.

      • stangerx says:

        And when a thread has gone up some it pops out even if replying.

      • CavalierKong says:

        LOL, I thought you were going to make me play out the whole endgame.

        I understand the point you are making, but I don’t think even the team can in good conscience say that 2019 salary increase should be counted as future annual consideration. It had to be tacit, and much more likely, explicit agreement that was an increase for that year. What player would sign an extension that only gives him ‘future’ money and forces him to play one more year on essentially a rookie salary? That just makes no sense to me.

        I think the Fins position is exactly what has been put out there, they don’t want to set the precedent (maybe especially after caving on Minkah so quickly) and they are concerned with giving him more $$$ because of injury history.

        Ultimately it is all just my opinion though, and I respect that you have your own. Cheers 🙂

  44. CavalierKong says:

    I gotta be honest, I kinda wish we’d just done that- move some back end money to this year. It removes the discord for a year at not that big a cost and little risk IMO.

    They also wanted his 2022 season fully guaranteed, but that was a separate request. I’d have declined on this one, and given him the front end money.

    If they agreed to moving the money it would be with the understanding no more whining this year. If he has a bad year, then we’re in a stronger position next year when it comes time to talk again. If he has another stellar year, well we will likely have to renegotiate next year anyway with the position we’ve currently taken.

    I get the stance the Dolphins have taken that they don’t want to set the precedent of having to renegotiate with their top players every year or two. I also get the injury concerns, he’s literally missed nearly a third of his games. That’s a big number. But at this point I wish we’d just given him that 4 mil.

  45. mf13ss says:

    It’s ALL about the bee’s knee(s), and y’all heard it from me many moons ago on this site… most didn’t even know what I was talking about with X’s knee(s) until it became public a few months later.

    It comes down to X’s excellence vs his long-term health. It’s not calculus, he wants to be paid before his knee(s) give out.

    No reason to bet on him in the long term, so why not bet on him in the short term?

    • CavalierKong says:

      It’s two-fold IMO. I think we created the problem when we signed Jones. If that signing doesn’t happen, I don’t think Howard does any of this.

      But it’s pretty clear when you look at a request like asking for his 2022 season to be fully guaranteed that he obviously has concerns about his own longevity and wants to cash out as much as he can- and that certainly plays into this now.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Bro, his knee issues started his rookie season then he only played in 5 games in 2019. We’ve all known about his knee issues since he’s been here. I’ve pointed out that he played in every game last year which tells me maybe it was just minor stuff. We’ll see.

      • stangerx says:

        He went on IR had then had knee surgery season before last. He showed he recovered well from it last year, but those knees are a biotch once treated wrong.

      • Tim Knight says:

        I said that, in 2019.

      • stangerx says:

        You did Tim. Was agreeing with you and throwing in my own thought about knee injuries.

  46. CavalierKong says:

    I had the guaranteed money for Howard and Jones all wrong in my head. I thought Jones got only a few million more guaranteed but it was substantially more. 27 to 46, but again, injury history…

  47. Rockphin says:

    I think that the trade partner in any X trade would have to be willing to give up too much (too much IMO) you would think that X would hold out for a “contender” which would mean the pick would be closer to a 2nd round pick than a top 10 pick. A playoff team would have to make it two firsts plus to make up the value of being late round picks. They will also have to be able to work the cap room to give him the deal he wants. That makes it much more unlikely that he will get traded.

  48. wyoming85 says:

    Go Dieter!

    • bookman11 says:


    • Rockphin says:

      I am pulling for him. I wanted him to blossom last season and was disappointed when he didn’t win a guard position. Hopefully another year of practice will hone his skills / strength enough to have him win the starting Center job. . Go Dieter!

  49. Mike E. says:

    Welcome back JOY-BOY!

  50. Rockphin says:

    Well I was wrong. I don’t think it is wise to put the #6 pick out there returning punts, but Coach disagrees. GO DOLPHINS!

  51. steveccnv says:

    Dave Hyde
    Jul 28
    You do realize Kyle Van Noy, Ererck Flowers signed contracts and the Dolphins cut them after one year. So what is a contract?

    How can hyde be an NFL beat writer, when he doesn’t know the basics of an NFL contract.

    Ok U75, built into a contract is a team out, it’s called guaranteed money, so a team can cut the player, but will have to pay the guaranteed money, just as a player can quit at any time, but may have to pay back some money

  52. steveccnv says:

    The 1 2 punch

  53. steveccnv says:

    Seems it’s secondary to x if he’s the highest paid CB on the team, his main focus is insurance against those knees.

    He talks about not being respected, but it’s he who isn’t showing any respect.

    They signed him to a 5 year extension, making him the top paid CB, knowing his knees may end his career at any time

    • stangerx says:

      Yep he wants more money, but more guaranteed money seems to be just as important to him. And if he is as grossly underpaid as he claims, he doesn’t need the guaranteed cash as insurance against getting cut. Back to the knees.

  54. New Age says:


    It’s good to see you back.

  55. The Flying Pig says:

    I keep forgetting Albert wilson is on the team

  56. steveccnv says:

    Don’t necessarily think we lost on the Minkah trade. He was a malcontent and didn’t fit with how we played him.

    He benefitted greatly from the Pitt passrush.

    If he was an FS for us last year he may have made all pro, but his cancer in the locker room may have destroyed the rebuild.

    Watched him in Pitt get burned the same way he got burned in our opener against Baltimore.

    We need to see year 2 from Jackson before we really know who won the trade

  57. sb7mvp says:

    Regardless of what X wants or why he wants it, it’s not really that big of a deal. Some of you act like his check will be coming out of your wallets. lol

    stangerx says:
    July 28, 2021 at 1:56 pm
    It wouldn’t be a big deal if we were just talking about Ross paying an extra say $5 mil per year, but this is cap money. That’s a mid-line starter. If we were talking the Yankees and Steinbrenner folks would want us to have the highest paid roster in the league.

    I was just saying that people are making something personal that isn’t personal. I don’t care if we pay him or trade him. Life will move on, and whether this situation is handled poorly or well, it doesn’t affect my life in the least. It’s entertainment. There’s no need to spend so much time angry over it.

    • stangerx says:

      Get what you mean, but we all are just rooting for the team to be the best it can be. Even if most times we don’t all agree on what needs to be done to make that happen.

      Don’t know about angry, but Howard has disappointed me in this. Even if it is resolved now (which don’t suspect it is), he’ll never be one of my favorite players. Those are ones that I like.

      For instance liked Joey Porter on the field, couldn’t stand the person. Was glad when he was gone.

    • D says:

      I both and disappointed in Howard and the team. If its true what he says about they made offers that wouldn’t significantly affect cap and would just add guarantees then they should have at least had a bigger discussion with him, made some concessions for this and then at the same time held firm on whatever they needed to. It almost seems like they were worried about precedent, and not fully about what he was asking for. If that’s the case i don’t case for how they handled it, there should never be a reason not to accommodate a player just because of what the other players might do. Id seriously just lay it down to them, you becomes the best X position player in the league and we will have the same discussions with you. Simple. Defend your argument by explaining the difference in what one player can request and another cant.

      • D says:

        Simply put though, anytime an agreement cant be reached there is usually a good bit of not working with the other side on both participants. We might be pro team but this is a dude livelihood and its short term, we have to respect that he needs to get guarantees so they don’t just fuck him over as well.

      • D says:

        The next time i see a team not cut a player in year 2 of a contract because they don’t like the terms is when ill start feeling bad for the teams in all this shit.

  58. stangerx says:

    Glad Bookman finally solved his last case.: )

  59. steveccnv says:

    The 55 yarder to Wilson yesterday looked to some like all Tua had, but watch the trajectory of the ball, it was thrown so high, that it dropped down right into Wilson’s hands.

    Very Rodgersesque, and the same type of thrown Flacco threw to stun Denver in the playoffs enroute to an SB title

  60. steveccnv says:


    Not too many would disagree, but I don’t think Tua takes the jump some think he might.

    Think his big improvement doesn’t come until year 3, when he really hones in on the intangibles that made him great at Bama.

    Think the team takes the next step and makes the playoffs, and Tua doesn’t have the issues pulling the trigger and makes adjustments pre snap.

    Newcomers Fuller and Waddle, but what about Wilson? He’s a newcomer to Tua.

    We already are starting to see WRs injured, so someone like Wilson, that can play outside is going to be an important piece

    • steveccnv says:

      U75s said the same thing about Tannehill every year or else… he must take the next step this year, and each year he improved some, but no big jump

      • D says:

        Id agree with that statement up until maybe year 4-5, he made smallish improvements all along the way and then something around year 4-5 he started declining. His stats may not show it, ill be honest i haven’t checked them, but he regressed in a few areas mostly this most troubling ones like pocket presence and reading the D. That’s when i started giving up on him and decided this ship would never sail. Again, i don’t fault him for all of his progress issues but at some point that marriage between us and him just wasnt going to yield anything tangible.

    • D says:

      I mean i think as far as rediness year one was more getting re-acclimated to playing while at the same tome transitioning to the NFL, i think he makes a pretty decent jump this year but i wouldn’t doubt your right about seeing the most significant change year 3.

  61. D says:

    David C (@DolphinsSB52) says:
    July 28, 2021 at 10:09 am
    Howard tosses the Pins under the bus on social media, what a classless act

    However, it IS concerning the Phins cant retain talent, another first round pick/ pro bowler will go to some other team

    this team wont be winning any super bowls, until we can draft , develop, and maintain the talent needed to do so.
    Then no team will be, because it happens to all of them. A lot of times they don’t even make it to second contract they leave in the first FA because the team cant afford to keep them. This is what salary caps and constantly upward moving salaries do to you eventually. I mean QB use to be a lock as far as a guy starting and ending their career in the same place but hell you have to gut your whole team these days to keep that one dude. It was really kind of shocking seeing all the starting caliber QB’s changing hands last off season.

  62. The Flying Pig says:

    • CavalierKong says:

      I wonder which side caved on the signing bonus payout and the offset language, lol.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      • D says:

        For a QB i think playing hardball over offset language is pretty fucking petty. A RB contract…maybe, but QB? I mean for offset to kick in he would have to leave the team for another, and who lets their 2nd pick of the draft ever walk that fast, at the QB position.

    • D says:

      He may be no lesbian but his looks are soft as fuck, looks like a liberal LOL, JK don’t start a politico discussion im just being an asshole.

  63. The Flying Pig says:

    I can’t believe the jests found themselves which a situation like this over a roomie contract they intend to build their team around

    I am under the impression that there’s not a whole lotta of things that are on the table on rookie contracts when it comes to negotiation

    How does it come to impasse

    • D says:

      Can only have intercourse with women named Jessica…..well that seems limiting doesnt it…..shut up and sign it fruity cakes mc homo.

    • steveccnv says:


      About the only thing that is negotiable is offset language.

      Most teams put it in, it allows them to recoup some of the guaranteed money from a rookie contract, if the team cuts him, then he signs somewhere else.

      Wilson basically wanted to double dip, Jets said fuck off and Zach caved

      • D says:

        i mean its only double dipping if they fucking bail on him and he goes to another team, which wont happen. Jest were dumb and so are any other teams to do that with a player they plan on seeing through the contract, specifically QB’s.

      • CavalierKong says:

        They also wanted to defer his signing bonus, but looking at it now, that may have just been a negotiation tactic to make sure they got the offset language they wanted.

      • steveccnv says:

        They all do

  64. CavalierKong says:

    We had a giant oak tree branch, as big around as my thigh, break without warning and fall into our backyard yesterday, right on our garden path that my wife is quite often on at that time of the evening when she is watering. If that had landed on her, it would have seriously injured her, possibly fatally.

    I feel very lucky. That was a random moment that could have been life altering in the worst way. Instead, it just meant I spent an hour cutting up the branch into pieces and it’ll take a few weeks to get it all into the green can and out of the backyard.

    • D says:

      rent a chipper from home depot and make ya some mulch

      • D says:

        you can also compost the mulch, take a little time but makes soem pretty good stuff because it becomes spongy and holds water

      • CavalierKong says:

        Not a bad idea. We have an equipment rental place right around the corner, and my wife could always use the mulch

      • D says:

        Get ya a pole saw at the same time and get any other gimpy looking limbs while your at it

      • CavalierKong says:

        We just had the tree trimmed last year, and this was a perfectly healthy branch. I guess it’s called sudden branch drop. It can happen during hot times, especially with oaks, the trees vascular system can’t get proper circulation so the tree just decides to cut off one of its limbs.

    • D says:

      Home depot will rent just about anything lol….need a hammer…..here ya go

    • stangerx says:

      Trees can be a hassle. Had to take down a couple tall ones back in Washington. It ain’t cheap. Got got 3 bids on it….. was amazed at the differences in prices. Highest was 3 times the lowest (think the price much more about what they think they can get than the work involved).

      Never seen your back yard, but if you have a lot might want to get a quote yourself. If nothing else they will identify and assess what could/should be done. And after they are gone maybe you decide to do most of it yourself.

  65. pheloniusphish says:

    Cav – Cut it into chunks season it and use it in your smoker.

  66. mf13ss says:

    I don’t understand why so many here are down on Albert Wilson. Unless management thinks he’s making too much money (could restructure, of course), he’s going to make the team, IMO. He’s a YAC master, he’s fast, he’s got good hands, and he’s got a chip on his shoulder.

    He helps to make our WR corps one of the best in the league. I can’t think of any team right now that could cover Wilson, Waddle, and Fuller when they are on the field at the same time. That’s the kind of situation that will keep opposing DCs up all night.

    GO PHINS!!!
    GO WILSON!!!
    HELL YEAH!!!

    • steveccnv says:

      Who is down on Wilson?

      We surely will need him week 1.

      Have mentioned here the Wilson, Fuller and Waddle Nascar package, and basically said the same thing, who is going to cover that?

    • steveccnv says:

      Wilson restructured last year before he opted out, his contract isn’t an issue

    • Tim Knight says:

      I’m a fan of his game. He’s an explosive player.

    • CavalierKong says:

      I’m a fan of Wilson. I said last year when he opted out we were going to miss him, and it ended up we really could have used him late last year. I do remember someone called him a JAG when I said that…

  67. mf13ss says:

    I distinctly recall discussing Wilson earlier this spring, and many/most here were writing him off. I do remember a few of you (Tim in particular) defending Wilson. He’s certainly not chopped liver!

    Glad that Steve and Cav Kong are fans of him as well. GREAT!

    • pheloniusphish says:

      Only person I recall been on Wilson is David.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I was ready to part ways with Wilson

      But that’s not about his talent

      I just though we are making those kind of changes

    • CavalierKong says:

      I know David really despises him because of the whole Landry thing.

      But Wilson came on strong for us towards the end of 2019. Tim and I mentioned more than once in the 2020 offseason that we expected Wilson to be a big part of our offense because even in 2019 he was still recovering from his injury and you could see the change towards the end of that season as he got his legs back. Then he opted out.

  68. mf13ss says:

    steveccnv says:
    July 29, 2021 at 2:12 pm

    …Have mentioned here the Wilson, Fuller and Waddle Nascar package, and basically said the same thing, who is going to cover that?
    Yes, you certainly have mentioned that here, man. Props!

  69. Tim Knight says:

    I think a lot of people who were down on Wilson other than David was because of his contract.

  70. mf13ss says:

    It’s all good, guys. I don’t really care who was pro or anti-Wilson, I was just very surprised at the time by how many were going south on him… probably because he had opted out due to COVID.

    • stangerx says:

      People were down on Hurns and Wilson for opting out, that’s for sure. In Hurns case still not sure why he did. With Wilson figured his best option was to use that rule to have a recovery year and be able to come back and show it.

      • mf13ss says:

        ^ BOOM!

        100% concurred regarding Wilson.

      • steveccnv says:

        Wilson said he opted out “because of the uncertainty of what was going on and not having the facts of what was going on in the world. It was scary off what we had going on in our household [with young children]. I don’t think I ever thought I made a bad decision even as successful as the NFL was going.

  71. CavalierKong says:

    Stang, you’ve touched on a real annoyance, lol. First let me say, I’ve had the exact same experience as you when it comes to quotes on getting the tree trimmed or removed. The quotes really are all over the place with the highest being about 3 times what the lowest is for either service.

    But here is what really sucks. This particular oak is of the heritage variety, a valley oak. That means it’s a protected species in Sacramento County, and if I remove it it’ll be more than $10,000 in fines on top of the 4 grand it would take to remove it and the stump. And it’s one of the biggest trees in my neighborhood, so it’s practically guaranteed that someone would report me.

    We’ve had multiple arborists out to give us an evaluations and the tree is unfortunately vibrant and healthy so we can’t claim it needs to be removed. We’ve talked about just removing it and paying the fine, and we may end up going that route, but that’s a tough pill to swallow.

    • CavalierKong says:

      We’ve had it trimmed twice and you have to get a permit even to get those trees trimmed, and they have all sorts of restrictions like no more than 25% of the canopy can be removed, etc.

      • steveccnv says:

        That’s the state you live in.

        My dad was looking for a new factory in the 90s, and looked at City of Industry CA.

        They have city laws that tell you, if you’re allowed to move machinery, and if you do you need a permit and a licensed electrician

        Just more control and corrupt politicians

      • CavalierKong says:

        CA does love to over-regulate, lol. Because of this tree, I’ve done some research on the whole protected heritage oak species, and I understand why those regs were put in place even if it is inconvenient to me. Most states have some geographical fauna and wildlife they have regs to protect, so in this particular case, I don’t think this is just a CA thing.

      • CavalierKong says:

        *flora and fauna

    • stangerx says:

      Will it fall on your house if goes down without help? Have to suspect their some way to specially “water it” so that you do get permission to take it down. Almost feel guilty saying that though….. sounds like a real cool tree.

      • CavalierKong says:

        We’ve explored that route too, but it also hangs over a neighbor’s yard and leans that direction, so it likely would land on their house if it came down on its own. I could never risk someone getting hurt by my actions under those circumstances.

        It is a cool tree, big and beautiful…except for all the shyte it drops in our yard literally year around. My wife has named it the queen bitch. She has a love/hate relationship with it, lol.

      • stangerx says:

        Sounding like that tree can’t be cut unless you are willing to take the cap hit. 🙂

      • CavalierKong says:

        LOL, well put

  72. son of a son of a shula says:

    I think you can make your case to have it removed by the precedent set by the story of “the giving tree”, the tree gives it doesn’t try to kill your beautiful wife. An oak like that should yield you endless fire wood and a nice shed all you have is a mess, lol

    • CavalierKong says:

      If I thought it would work, I’d take a copy of The Giving Tree in to the planning department, lol.

  73. stangerx says:

    Shocker of the day.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Players across the league are missing practice time because this is what happens in camp, guys get nicked up doing football stuff.

    • steveccnv says:

      I call bs, but he doesn’t need too much camp to be ready.

      Fake injury

      • Tim Knight says:

        So he’s not allowed to have a tight hamstring or a tweak in his ankle etc.?

        Maybe just maybe we speculate too much here.

      • stangerx says:

        Tim — could be just like with any other player in camp, but is a heck of a coincidence giving the timing. And he said only showed up at camp to avoid being fined. Can you say it is not a passive aggressive move on his part? I don’t know one way or the other.

  74. Tim Knight says:

    Why is returning punts any more dangerous than catching a pass over the middle? On a punt you’re at least facing the defenders. Catching passes over the middle you’re not facing the defenders that can lay you out.

    • steveccnv says:

      It’s not, point is you need your best WRs to be playing as much as possible, you don’t need your best WRs returning punts, when someone else can do it with similar results

      • Tim Knight says:

        Last year we had less than 3 PRs per game. There are out of bounds punts, fair catches and touchbacks. Too much is made of it. You get the ball in your playmakers hands as much as you can.

  75. Tim Knight says:

    Xavien Howard, who is battling an ankle sprain, didn’t participate in any of the team portions of practice. …


  76. Rockphin says:

    They took Austin Jackson with the Minkah pick. (the rest of the picks involved were throw away / move around picks) so was getting Jackson worth losing Minkah FF?

    • steveccnv says:

      Not at this time, or compared to what he’s done in Pitt, but he wasn’t any better for us the games he played, than Jackson.

      Who knows, if we would’ve moved him to FS

    • Tim Knight says:

      That’s not how it works though. When you trade a player you don’t know at the time of the trade who you’re going to choose with that draft pick compensation.

      That said, it was Minkah FF who wanted out of Miami. It’s not like we wanted to trade him. He forced his way out by bickering about how he was going to be used along with his Mom. LOL

    • The Flying Pig says:

      It’s a little too early for my taste to tell

      Jackson plays a more important position
      And he was bad last year

      Minkah was great the year of the trade
      I thought he was good as a rookie too
      Last year….meh…

      If you are just comparing players and not headaches
      Minkah is a pro bowl safety at this point and jackson is LT with upside

      • Tim Knight says:

        Jackson wasn’t bad last year, he was okay. He’ll also only be 22 in August. He wasn’t even legal to drink adult beverages when we drafted him.

        It’s not a tit for tat situation with Minkah vs. Jackson. That’s not how it works. We had no idea who we would pick at #18 in 2020. We ended up with Tua, Jackson and Iggy in the 1st round. It’s only 2021. Not sure why we’re even discussing this? LOL

      • The Flying Pig says:

        I forgot the crucial “not” before the word bad….

        I meant “not bad”

  77. The Flying Pig says:

    Tim Knight says:
    July 29, 2021 at 6:00 pm (Edit)
    That’s not how it works though. When you trade a player you don’t know at the time of the trade who you’re going to choose with that draft pick compensation.

    That said, it was Minkah FF who wanted out of Miami. It’s not like we wanted to trade him. He forced his way out by bickering about how he was going to be used along with his Mom. LOL

    I think the point of this topic is whether it’s a great idea to get draft picks in return for good players

    Draft picks are more valuable when you are building

    But maybe now, we are a team that might want to get good players for good players

  78. Rockphin says:

    Howard has 22 Ints in 4 years. More than any other NFL player over that period. Imagine if he could stay on the field and hadn’t missed 15 games in two seasons.

    • Tim Knight says:

      He has the most INTs the last 5 seasons per game than anyone in the league. That counts his rookie season with none. 😉

  79. Rockphin says:

    Not sure why we’re even discussing this? LOL

    Someone up the page made a comment about the value of the Minkah trade and I decided to look up who we got as a player with the pick. It was just curiosity and not any side of an argument. I wondered what you guys would think of the ultimate result of that trade.

    What would you prefer to talk about? For that matter, why comment or reply at all?

    • Tim Knight says:

      Relax Rock! My comment was based on how we seem to revisit the past even if only a year or two ago. Are we not past that? If you remember I was a Minkah fan. But we can’t control all the other stuff. The 2021 team moving forward is all that matters.

  80. Rockphin says:

    we did better with the Tunsil trade than the Minkah pick LOL

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I can’t follow that…wtf is going on

      • stangerx says:

        We’ve all heard about the Parcells and Bellichick coaching trees. That’s the Tunsil trade tree.

    • Tim Knight says:

      That’s because we lucked out with Bill O’Brien thinking Laremy Tunsil was the 2nd coming of Anthony Muñoz. How’s that worked out for the Texans? LOL

      • stangerx says:

        Can’t blame Tunsil though. He’s played solid since. We’d be happy to have him as our LT right now if didn’t know what he’d turn into.

      • Tim Knight says:

        I’m not blaming Tunsil at all. He even said he would have made that trade. LOL

  81. Rockphin says:

    I think there are even more branches on that chart now.

  82. pheloniusphish says:

    Fuck Howard and the horse he rode in on.

    • mf13ss says:

      I respectfully disagree with that sentiment. If he’s to be traded, I’d thank him for his years of service to our Miami Dolphins.

      The NFL is a biz, man… it’s not a life-long or blood commitment to defend our country, for example.

      “Life will move on”, as SB7 stated up the page… he’s right.

      • stangerx says:

        Won’t wish for his knees to collapse if goes to another team, but he has become distinctly not my favorite player as a person. He stays on the team will be psyched about every good play he makes. just like assume Phel will.

        Pretty sure he couldn’t less about whether I like him or not. So no sweat off his back.

  83. Tim Knight says:

    Piggy, if you were to make a trade for a player, what position are you looking at?

  84. Tim Knight says:

    This season is about the youth and experienced vets playing to their ability, and Tua because he’s the QB. Coaching too which I have confidence in. But players have to make plays. That’s it.

  85. mf13ss says:

  86. CavalierKong says:

    Howard’s injury might very well be real, but at this point it’s hard for me to see it as anything other than the next move in the game he’s playing. Every little minor ding in training camp, he’ll sit out.

    The question becomes will he do it during the regular season if this goes that far. Phel, you mentioned to me the other day about Howard half-assing it, and I said I don’t think so because he will only hurt his own money, but I admit this moves the needle in the direction you indicated IMO.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Whether or not he’s really healthy or not, there’s more to TC than physical

      If he has checked out – the coaches will know before the season starts

      How long can you take an ankle sprain anyway…lol

      • CavalierKong says:

        We’ll see how it all plays out. If he’s back in a day or two or this turns into a week, etc. I wanted to acknowledge what Phel had said the other day. But yeah, I mean, part of what we’ve been talking about is injury concerns with him, so I’m finding it kind of amusing that he gets a minor injury and most of us (including me) cry foul, lol.

  87. The Flying Pig says:

    Tim Knight says:
    July 29, 2021 at 7:20 pm (Edit)
    Piggy, if you were to make a trade for a player, what position are you looking at?

    If we traded X for example
    Probably another CB…lol

    I actually like the way the team is built right now

    Maybe another pass rusher

    I wouldn’t mind more talent at RB but I wouldn’t trade for one

    If we lose an Impact Defensive player like X
    I probably want another impact D player I’m return

    Maybe a Pass rusher 🤷‍♂️

    I don’t know…

    I prefer it all works out with Howard

    But I like to hope for the best and prep for the worst

    Maybe we have to trade Howard…I hope not

    I don’t think a 1st round pick in 2022 is going to do it
    I would like a player who makes an impact in 2021 if it happens

  88. CavalierKong says:

    I think I started the Minkah stuff when I said yesterday that we lost on the Minkah trade, and I believe that to be true just based on the details of the trade, regardless of the player we got in return. Just looking at the trade itself, what happened was we traded our #11 pick for the #18 two years later and swapped our 4th for a 5th. That is all I meant by we lost on that trade.

    I know the reasons we moved him, which I mentioned in my first post, and for that year’s team I even think it was the right move to make (although I hated it at the time, lol). I get it was a necessary move. Addition by subtraction.

    I also understand there are other facets in evaluating that trade, and don’t disagree that if Jackson turns out to be a top quality starter for us for years to come, then ultimately it doesn’t matter and it can be looked at as a decent trade. I’m not arguing that position is wrong, more just clarifying what I meant when I said it because it was a rather short statement which I didn’t really add much of my own thinking to.

  89. CavalierKong says:

    LOL, why aren’t you wearing your pants, Joe?

  90. manitobafinfan says:

    Aaaaaand discuss: LMAO

    Brinson also threw out a wild trade proposal involving the Texans and Dolphins: Miami would get Deshaun Watson while Houston would get Howard, Tua Tagovailoa and a 2022 first-round pick.

    For context not saying is in the works. Just a possibility…

  91. The Flying Pig says:

    Can some one explain to me why any discussion of Watson doesn’t start with the acknowledgement that he’s damaged goods

    Your as likely to get a prison sentence as a productive season from him

  92. son of a son of a shula says:

    Good to see you Bookman.
    Congrats on the Bucks even if I didn’t watch a single second of it.

    • bookman11 says:

      Thanks. It was awesome. First real championship for me to celebrate as a sports fan. I really don’t recall even watching the last Fins SB win. I hate the Packers so it was hell here when they won in 96 and 2010.

      I was at a bar watching most of the games of the Finals. Truth be told, I a not a fan of the NBA in general, but I live Giannis and The Bucks.

      The deer district crowds were awesome to see. 50 years between titles.

      My next hope is Brewers get their first and Dolphins get their first in almost 50.

      “It’s the summer of George!”

      I can dream

  93. manitobafinfan says:

    Kinda figured that’’s get a rise 😊. I am not looking to trade for Watson anymore either at this point but it was inevitable that someone would put X and he together…

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      The balls jumping out of Tua’s hand, watch any of the practice videos. We should be in good shape, the fucking speed we have is incredible.
      Fastest show on erf 🐬

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Pundits who have been talking about Miami trading for Watson all offseason when they hear Howard demanded a trade

  94. bookman11 says:

    “ the fucking is incredible” Excellent, just hope that translates to wins

  95. son of a son of a shula says:

    Yeah Nick Anderson with his famous steal off Michael Jordan who was wearing the 45.
    Then Nick missed crucial free throws in Game 1 and Olejuan went on to whoop us in four straight

  96. The Flying Pig says:

    Should we add her to our stable of running backs

  97. Tim Knight says:

    Hey Bookman, sorry if I bummed you out. That was not my intention. Go Phins!!!!

  98. CavalierKong says:

    Dolphins coach Brian Flores was asked about the situation during a radio interview this week. Specifically, Flores was asked if there was any way the team would be able to keep Howard in Miami even though he clearly wants out.

    “There’s a way,” Flores told “The Joe Rose Show” via the Miami Herald. “I think we just continue to have discussions with him, his representation, and keep the lines of communication open, continue having dialogue and, hopefully, work something out.”

    According to Flores, the two sides have been communicating with each other in en effort to get things figured out.

    “Look, [Howard] is a great player, good teammate,” Flores said. “His teammates love playing with him. I love coaching him. Obviously, we’ve had discussions with him, his representation. I talked to him [Tuesday]. I’ll keep all those conversations between us, including his contract situation.”

    Whatever Flores and Howard talked about on Tuesday clearly didn’t do much to convince the corner he would be getting a new deal because his trade demand came out on Tuesday night.

    As the week now continues, the situation doesn’t seem to be getting any friendlier between the two sides. Flores’ radio interview took place on Wednesday and less than 24 hours later, he had a slightly less optimistic tone when asked about Howard’s situation. After Thursday’s practice, Flores didn’t exactly give a straight answer when he was asked if he thought Howard would be on the Dolphins’ roster come Week 1.

    “We’re focused on today,” Flores said, via the Sun-Sentinel. “Our focus is on right now, today and helping the players improve and get better. I don’t really go down the road.”

    According to the Miami Herald, the two sides haven’t had any significant contract talks in at least a “couple of days.”


  99. sb7mvp says:

    Don’t let X’s contract situation distract you from the fact that this offense is one big game of 20 questions.

  100. Howard is acting like a spoiled child

    hes not mature enough to handle his business like a professional IMO

    • ocalarob says:

      and just a couple of weeks ago you were saying how he was right and the FO was wrong?

      • ocalarob says:

        you don’t remember how i said he wouldn’t have got 10 picks without jones? you said jones had nothing to do with it?

        you were touting him for a whole page of how this front office should cave to his demands and now you have turned on him.

      • i remember your comment on jones, but i dont think the team should cave to howards demands

        my argument was that jones was extremely overpaid, and contributed to the howard problem, there is NO way to go back and fix the Jones contract, the damage is done

        howard was a great player, but he isnt what the team needs IMO

  101. ocalarob says:

    all this regurgitation of the howard situation is pathetic.
    it all comes down too; if they can get a great return in trading him, otherwise he will play under his current contract.
    nuff said

  102. ocalarob says:

    i think it’s highly unlikely miami will cave to his demands, that sends a bad message thru the locker room.
    the fact is Howard will play under his current contract, he’s already shown that by showing up at training camp. he’s not going to leave 12 mil on the table. no way

    • he showed up at camp, then has an undisclosed injury? SMH

      im not seeing any good faith efforts from Howard, none whatsoever

      theres a 99 percent chance he would milk the contract, and not play like the team needs him too IMO

      its too late to salvage this mess IMO, time to move on without howard

  103. Mike E. says:

    NEW BLOG UP!!!

  104. Orob, weeks ago i was hoping the team and Howard would work things out

    that was before the social media bs, and the undisclosed injury

    so the leapord has shown his true spots , im no longer hoping it all gets worked out

    • D says:

      wasnt professional how he handled it, im at the point where it doesn’t matter to me how it goes with exception of one way, being cut. We need to get something for him. He has hurt the trade value with his social media stuff but id hold out for what i wanted in trade and if not he shows up as a dolphin or he hurts any contract re-negotiation leverage he had with getting a change from his new team. no one will trade for him and give him more guarantees if he doesn’t show up and perform so it wont be like we wont have a player that wont be motivate to play his best even if he is pissed about the contract.

  105. D says:

    Speaking of trees and cost of removal, i didn’t even have to have them taken down, Hurricane Zeta did that for me, but just to have them cleared and the stumps taken out was 12.5G’s

  106. New Age says:


    I definitely think it will be better but every team has strengths and ours should definitely be our WRs and DBs. I love a great running game but the rules have changed and as Steve mentioned, the Titans still never pushed through with the run.

    If our run game is 15th and our pass 6th, I’ll be happy as a pig in…well , you know.

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