Rebuilding and the Dolphins Coaching Search

So much drama surrounding the Dolphins Head Coach search, and also the with the philosophy of a rebuild here in Miami. First things first. Chris Grier, not Steve Ross will be choosing the new Head Coach. Grier is complete charge of football operations, and he’s the guy making the decisions. If you think Steve Ross will be meddling with the decision, that’s on you.

Is a rebuild such a bad thing? What really is a rebuild? I’d say there are probably a lot of different ways to rebuild something. If you replace the short block of an engine, that’s considered a rebuild, but the whole unit wasn’t rebuilt. I think for the Dolphins, what we’re going to do is not make the same mistakes we’ve made in the past few years. Flash back to 2015, when we signed Ndamukong Suh for a 6 YR $114M contract. Great player at a premium position, but we weren’t one player away, and honestly, Suh never flourished here. No more huge contracts for 1 player.

It’s more than just Suh though, it’s going for the quick fix. In 2017 when we lost Ryan Tannehill, we should have soldiered on with what we had, rather than pay Jay Cutler $10M. I wanted the quick fix, but it was selfish, and foolish, and it was a poor use of cap money. That’s what needs to change here. Getting rid of Mike Pouncey was a start in the right direction, and in the off season, the purge should continue. Robert Quinn ($12.9M), Andre Branch ($7M), Devante Parker ($9.4M) should all be purged. Cam Wake, who we all love shouldn’t even be considered for a re-sign. Let him go win a championship somewhere else.

Besides just outright cutting players, I think we should trade a couple of players. The most obvious one is Ryan Tannehill, and his market is completely undetermined. Not sure if we can recoup any more than a late round pick, like a 5th or later, but all it takes is one team that really wants him, and we can possibly do better. I know a couple of you here are tired of this one, but you guys aren’t focusing long term, you’re still fantasizing about success next season. I’d trade Reshad Jones for what I believe could be a 3rd RD pick to a team who needs that veteran presence and maybe is a player or 2 away from what they believe is a championship. It’s a minor cap savings, but we have 3 safeties in T.J. McDonald, Minkah Fitzpatrick and Reshad Jones, and T.J. won’t bring back the bounty of a 3rd RD pick. When you have numerous holes during a rebuild, you don’t keep a glut of talent at one position, it doesn’t make sense.

We’re trying to become a team that not only has a younger roster, but one that will have lots of cap space for flexibility. No more big FA contracts, and certainly no high priced FA contracts to older players. Quinn was a trade, but that 4th RD pick we gave to the Rams, plus the salary we had to pay Quinn was a loss for us. Maybe that’s part of the reason MTP is now banished from the kingdom.

As for the Head Coach, I don’t have a horse in this race. I like certain things about each of the candidates, but I don’t feel like any of them are the a clear cut choice. It’s probably silly to not want Brian Flores from the Patriots, but former Patriots coaches that left NE and became HC’s have had dreadful results. Romeo Crennel (28-55), Josh McDaniels (11-17), Matt Patricia (6-10), and Eric Mangini (33-47). Of course none of this means Brian Flores won’t succeed, but whatever qualifications any of those coaches had, the success of the New England Patriots is on the shoulders of Bill Belichick.

I love Darren Rizzi’s passion, fire, and respect the fact that his unit has been consistently very good. I don’t have a clue as to what his offensive and defensive philosophies are. They might be good ones, but we don’t know. Kris Richard was the defensive backs coach and then coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks for the “Legion of Boom” era. You have to love that. We don’t know what his plan is on offense, and we don’t know how he is at game planning and handling the entire roster. I feel that whatever HC we hire, it would be great if we could get some continuity going, but that requires patience. Would Ross accept 3 losing seasons and continue on for the sake of continuity?

Last night driving home, I was listening to Bill Polian, and unfortunately, just caught the tail end of the discussion, but what I did hear was Polian saying that teams like Dolphins, Bucs, Cardinals are in a pattern of failure, and are setting themselves up for such every time they make a coaching change. He’s right. We all hunger for it, yet each time we do it, it sets the team back a couple of years. The best teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Ravens have had the same Head Coach for 5 or more years, which keeps the same system in place, and allows a team to continue to build the roster with a particular style, rather than flushing players every few years that don’t match the new regimes style. Polian said what the Dolphins, Bucs are doing is a “Self fulfilling prophecy”. He’s right.

If we’re going to pick a Head Coach, I think we as fans have to try and be patient, but more importantly, Steve Ross does. He has to block out what the media wants, what the fans want, and just let the HC build something. In retrospect, I think we may have cut Gase too soon, although I didn’t like him, and hated the way he got along with players, maybe he deserved more time. Too late now, but hopefully this time, we don’t make that same mistake.

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1,567 Responses to Rebuilding and the Dolphins Coaching Search

  1. pheloniusphish says:

    No more jerseys for me. Ever. Free agency has ruined modern day collectibles.

  2. pheloniusphish says:

    Woo Hoo!!!! Page turn!!!

  3. Rockphin says:

    Looking at the pole it appears most on here have the same opinion of Flores as I do. He only has one vote. Looks like Richard or Rizzi is the favorite on here (other than the folks who picked an as raping hampster, smh.

  4. ocalarob says:

    It’s Polk salad Annie, Tony Joe White

  5. Mike E. says:

    I can just picture Rock in his office yelling into his iPhone “ass raping hamster” while his boss walks by

  6. son of a son of a shula says:

    RIP Tony Joe White. He died within the last 6 months.

  7. son of a son of a shula says:

    Wake might have been the only safe jersey but that’s up in the air now.

  8. Mike E. says:

    I think Wake is more than up in the air. I don’t think we bring him back. He deserves a ring, I hope he finds a team that’s close that wants him. We need to get young at DE, players don’t get better by watching Wake play.

  9. The Flying Pig says:

    Dowell loggains in interviewing today


  10. stangerx says:

    Cameron Wolfe, ESPN Staff Writer
    The Dolphins are interviewing ST coordinator Darren Rizzi for their head coach gig this morning, per league source.

  11. The Flying Pig says:

  12. pheloniusphish says:

    I don’t think Loggains was the problem with the offense. I don’t think he designed or called any plays. Still don’t want him. Not sure I want Rizzi. If you’re going to blow it up, blow it up. But I can live with Rizzi since he had the only successful unit on the team.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      He wasn’t the problem – Gase was

      But this is an interview
      What did he do for the offense
      what did he ever do to earn a HC interview


      You and I weren’t the problem with the offense either
      should we get interviews? lol

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I agree about Rizzi

      I don’t believe in guilt by association and he’s been successful at what he does
      but Loggains….Does he fetch coffee well or something?

  13. Mike E. says:

    Maybe we’re trying to glean info from Loggains before he sets out to reunite with Gase in Nueva York. Find out his offensive philosophies and tendencies, although I imagine he will be somewhat guarded.

  14. D says:

    Rockphin says:
    January 11, 2019 at 9:25 am

    Looking at the pole it appears most on here have the same opinion of Flores as I do. He only has one vote. Looks like Richard or Rizzi is the favorite on here (other than the folks who picked an as raping hampster, smh.
    do a lot of looking at the pole?

  15. D says:

    Adam Gase at the podium answering reporter questions…..

  16. Mike E. says:

    D – I was thinking more like this

  17. son of a son of a shula says:

    When Loggains gets pissed at a player he’ll look right in their chest and give them his wrath.

  18. stangerx says:

    We’ve already interviewed: Brian Flores (Patriots), Kris Richard (Cowboys), Dennis Allen (Saints) and Eric Bieniemy (Chiefs), all of whom have games this weekend. Guess that gives you time to give Loggains an interview as well.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      at the end of the day its, there’s no harm to it

      but it does send the wrong message
      It makes the FO look incompetent to even explore some one who should not be interviewed.

      The other names you mentioned are serious candidates
      if they interview some one without any intent to hire them, they should just interview everyone
      its not an open race for everyone
      people earn the chance

      And if they think Loggains has earned that chance – then they have real problems

      He hasn’t been near an offense that excelled
      and he didn’t even call the plays

      I don’t even know what he does except collect a check

      I want to have faith in Ross and this FO
      and interviewing bad candidates makes that harder

  19. The Flying Pig says:

    If our offense was trash last season, which it was,
    the OC who did less than most OCs do was probably trash too
    Of course I’m just guessing bc I don’t know what he actually did for this team
    by all appearances – its nothing

  20. Randy says:

    Kingsbury got hired as a HC. There is no such thing as “earning it” anymore.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      You can make that argument for experience with him
      but not for success
      kingsbury had success at Texas Tech

      I’m guessing the basis of why teams liked him is the attraction to the wide open offense

      On the other hand: what can you say about Loggains that is positive about what he has done with his experience?

  21. Randy says:

    Kingsbury had an overall record of 35-40 at TT with only 2 of his 6 seasons being winning seasons. I’m not sure that counts as success. But, I was just making a general point. Guys can get hired in the NFL now without truly earning it. It used to be that you had to at least put your time in as a coordinator but not anymore. I’m not really sure what they base hirings on anymore. I have no clue whether or not Loggains actually deserves an interview because I don’t know what that takes anymore.

  22. Tim Knight says:

    A few teams interviewed guys who were on their staffs but only one got hired I believe, that was Freddie Kitchens in CLE.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Yeah – but Rizzi is our legitimate interview from our staff

      Loggains kind of appears to be just giving him an interview to say they gave him an interview

  23. Mike E. says:

    Getting an interview for a HC job is extremely valuable experience. Next time he does it, it won’t be nearly as daunting, he’ll know what to expect.

  24. Tim Knight says:

    Piggy, it sounds like Zac Taylor will become the Bengals HC. His resume doesn’t scream HC candidate either. Like Randy was saying, what is the criteria anymore?

  25. Mike E. says:

    Rock – I’m a little less than halfway thru King of Ashes, I’m starting to really like it. It’s definitely similar to all of his other books, but that’s OK with me.

  26. Mike E. says:

    Tim – I wanted to mention something to you, but you weren’t around at the time. I think it was Mando who wrote an article how while other teams are looking for one thing, the Dolphins are looking for another. It completely reminded me of an article about the Mets, basically saying the same about them. The Mets are really in it for the short term, and I think they can be a competitive team, but I do think they are mortgaging the future to get there.. Still, even with all the moves, the NL East is probably going to have both Harper and Machado, and it’s possible Philly gets both.

    • Tim Knight says:

      What are other teams looking for that the Dolphins aren’t?

      The Mets are kind of stuck with a win now mentality because of their pitching.

      The Phillies can afford both Harper and Machado? Won’t that be like $700M or more?

  27. Mike E. says:

    Tim – This is the Dolphins article, not sure if I can find the Mets article, I’ll try . . .

    • Tim Knight says:

      Yeah I read this. We’ve been down the offensive road in recent years and that hasn’t worked either. I don’t think it matters. A defensive coach can hire a creative offensive mind. This time around we need a HC that coaches the entire team, not mainly focusing on one side of the ball.

      • Mike E. says:

        I agree 100% It would be nice to be really good on either side of the ball, then you improve the other.

      • Tim Knight says:

        That’s one of the reasons I like Rizzi. I think he would be engaged in all three phases during games. He seems to be in the moment with clock management, down and distance, field position, debating penalties etc. Gase relied on him for some of that.

  28. Mike E. says:

    Tim – The Mets article was basically how all other teams are putting a premium on their farm systems, and the Mets are selling it out, going for the short term gain. It’s just funny how both teams are being knocked for doing things differently, although the Dolphins can hire Eric Bieniemy, and shoot that article to shit,. lol

  29. Mike E. says:

    I’ve heard it in a few different places, that the Phillies might end up landing both, or Harper goes back to the Nats, and Machado to Phillies

  30. Rockphin says:

    An the next head coach of the Miami Dolphins will be……

  31. Rockphin says:

    Mike E. says:
    January 11, 2019 at 2:19 pm
    Rock – I’m a little …. It’s definitely similar to all of his other books, but that’s OK with me.”


    That is actually a positive thing for me as I liked most all of his other books. I was just hesitant because I noticed it was in a different “world” than Midkemia and sometimes authors will try too hard to come up with something totally different that they will miss the mark of what was good about their precious books.

    Good to hear!

    • Mike E. says:

      I’m 170 pages in, and all of a sudden, it’s really clicking now, all the characters are developing nicely, and I’m really into it.

  32. Rockphin says:

    New Head Coaches 2017
    Mike Vrabel, Tennessee. …
    Pat Shurmur, New York Giants. …
    Matt Patricia, Detroit. …
    Steve Wilks, Arizona. …
    Jon Gruden, Oakland. …
    Matt Nagy, Chicago. …
    Frank Reich, Indianapolis.

  33. ocalarob says:

    i just found out that i have an interview with the dolphins

  34. Rockphin says:

    Rob, is your last name Spinagain? Because I am sure that is what the wheel of failure came up on!

  35. Randy says:

    I don’t think head coaches do a whole lot of actual coaching. They have a whole lot of other stuff occupying their time in that position. That’s why you want a HC who can actually hire good coaches under him.

    • Rockphin says:

      I was the “Chief Estimator” for a company and I did ZERO estimating….go figure.

      Most of what I did was personnel management and customer relations at that level.

    • Tim Knight says:

      They oversee the vibe of the entire team. Are they practicing well, cutting down on mistakes, managing the roster, dealing with injuries, game planning and then obviously game situations.

  36. Rockphin says:

    Mike E. says:
    January 11, 2019 at 3:19 pm
    Really, it’s 15 coaches in 2 years, that seems like a lot.

    I just checked and there were 7 in 2016 as well
    there were 6 in 2015
    There were 6 in 2014

    • D says:

      The coaching hires have been about as mixed bag as any other aspect of getting new parts for your team. Some fails, some successes, really no discernible pattern of success or failure, so maybe thats what we should take from that data, just sit back and hope for the best.

  37. D says:

    I could see OCRob, patting Gore on the butt as he sends him in on first down and says “alright, go out there and get me 9.5 yards, son!” ……..and whispers “Because 10 or more wont count……” as he runs off.

  38. ElephantRider says:

    No problem letting Grier interview anybody he wants. No rush really. Let him get it right.

  39. Mike E. says:

    LOL @ D

  40. stangerx says:

    Vance Joseph gonna be the Cardinals new DC. Not sure if we actually have a coaching tree, but man people who have worked in Davie are all over the league. Maybe if you turn over coaching staffs enough then what happens.

  41. Tim Knight says:

  42. son of a son of a shula says:

    Of the guys we interviewed that are still in the playoffs I don’t think any go against each other. So if all 4 teams were to lose then we’d know who the first choice is, if only one loses and doesn’t get hired then you gotta figure they want someone else. If two lose we can narrow it down, three and so forth.
    If they all win we wait and Crash Jenson will get an interview.
    They all lose and we don’t hire one then it’s Harbaugh.

  43. son of a son of a shula says:

    I’m not going to bitch about Flores, I hope he does great. I liked the vibe I got from Richard but it seems Flores is a similar personality type. Good I want NE to lose anyway, go Rivers!

    • Tim Knight says:

      Yeah me neither. None of us know much about him anyway. We have no idea how he’ll do.

    • D says:

      Grier is probably more familiar with him, not sure if there were together when Grier was in NE, but if so maybe that helped him, since Grier would already know what kind of person he was.

      • Tim Knight says:

        They were never together. But Grier does have connections to NE but that was many years ago. Everything I’ve read or seen was that Flores impressed them and specifically from an Xs and Os standpoint which Ian Rapoport points out in the video below.

  44. Tim Knight says:

  45. Tim Knight says:

    As far as assistant coaches Hue jackson could be an OC candidate.

  46. D says:

    I heard Wilks name as a possible DC, but i think that was attached to and if Bieniemy was HC

  47. BailBondMike says:

    I read an article a month ago and meant to post link but couldn’t seem to do it using my phone. Then, I could never find the article again. Anyway, it talked about how most new DC’s don’t have a specific scheme (3-4/4-3) they prefer or run. They said most DC’s who run a specific scheme are those who have been around a real long time (see Ryan brothers, Wade Phillips, etc.). It went on to talk about how nickel is the new base defense for many DC’s in todays NFL. They also said some teams switch back an forth btwn 3-4 and 4-3 looks during the same game based on many factors like down and distance, running down vs passing down, score, time left, etc. Said roster was not factor. Wish I could find it but it made a whole lot of sense.

    • Tim Knight says:

      This is the new way. Multiple formations, lots of nickel and dime. The Pats played nickel over 90% of the time this year – meaning they had a 5th DB on the field most of the time. The Chargers use a lot of 6 and 7 DB formations.

      That would work well with our secondary personnel – Howard, McCain, Minkah, Jones and McDonald.

    • D says:

      They dont really switch scemes they just mix concepts and move LB’s around. Its still technically a 4-3 but sometimes they will shift the DT to a 1 tech and move the other dt out to 5 tech and then stand the DE up. Thats not a 3-4 now, its still a 4-3 just the players are moved around to simulate the 3-4 and get some of the benefits of the 3-4 out of it like the better pass rush angels. I mean wide 9 is essentially that system, i mean the DE does have a hand on the ground but out there on the outside shoulder of a TE thats really a 3-4 OLB at that point.

    • BailBondMike says:

      Catching up on the Flores news, the Pats were one of the teams mentioned in this article about nickel being their base and switching between 3-4 and 4-3 looks from one game to another.

  48. D says:

    With Flores as our DC we may stay 4-3 and just ditch wide 9, and go with a more standard 4-3 setup.

  49. Tim Knight says:


  50. Mike E. says:

    Not gonna lie, Flores was at the bottom of my list. Oh well, hope he’s the guy. I had nothing against him except from whence he came.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Your last sentence is why he was at the bottom of yours and others lists because of the NE coaching tree track record. I for one don’t believe in that because everyone is different and there are lots of reasons a lot of those coaches failed.

      If Flores is the guy I hope he’s awesome! LOL

  51. Tim Knight says:

    Base defenses the way it was played back in the day is kind of thing of the past because of the extinction of the FB and the pro set. You can’t play a lot of base with 3 WRs and all these pass catching TEs in the game.

  52. Mike E. says:

    Polian was saying the other day, people say Belichick runs this scheme or that scheme. He doesn’t run anything. He’s rarely the same on offense or defense each week. There is no scheme. He just matches up to what he thinks you do well on offense when their on defense, and when he’s on offense, he just exploits your weaknesses, no consistent scheme.

    • Tim Knight says:

      Yep, depending on opponent he also has different active/inactive players based on what matches up the best. Coverage LB one week, big run defending LB another. More speed up front one week, more size and strength another. More TEs one week, more WRs another. That’s how Belichick does it. It’s all about matchups and game plan.

  53. Mike E. says:

    Some day, one of these NE assistants is going to be a good HC. I hope it’s NOW!

    • Tim Knight says:

      Bill O’Brien is probably the most successful but he also was HC at Penn State before becoming HC in the pros with Houston.

  54. Tim Knight says:

    What will be interesting is if Flores is the HC or even someone else, would Rizzi be retained once again and would he want to be?

  55. wyoming85 says:

  56. Tim Knight says:

    If Flores is going to be our new HC, go Chargers! Well… go Chargers anyway! 🙂

  57. BailBondMike says:

    Chargers have a good balanced offense. Will be interesting to see how Flores goes about his business.

  58. Tim Knight says:

    With Flores as HC it’s going to be interesting in the AFC East. Belichick/Flores and Gase have competed against each other and now all three will go head to head with different teams.

  59. Tim Knight says:

    It would actually be shocking at this point if he didn’t become our HC. The vibe throughout the media is this is happening.

  60. mf13ss says:

    • Tim Knight says:

      He’s coached in all three phases of the game. He did some scouting early on all the way up to calling the defense for the Pats this year. He’s been with NE for 14 years and has seen a lot of success. Let’s hope he can bring those winning ways here. 🙂

  61. BailBondMike says:

    Reason I brought up that scheme does not seem to matter now days, is that scheme should not really matter in who we select in the draft either. Though, I may focus on players with more flexabilty like Josh Allen. Can’t believe Raekwon Davis is returning to Alabama for his senior year.

  62. mf13ss says:

  63. stangerx says:

    At least whoever was doing the talk on QAM was a few minutes ago was pretty darn sure that our next HC will be Flores, but then sounded like he was going off the same out of town sources that we all have.

  64. herdfan says:

    I don’t know anything about any of these guys or Flores in particular but it seems like the Belichick coaching progeny doesn’t do that well on their own.

    • Tim Knight says:

      If you look at how many coaching changes there have been in recent years there’s a lot of guys who didn’t succeed. I think it still comes down to talent and circumstances, not that these guys can’t coach.

  65. Tim Knight says:

  66. Mike E. says:

    Ken – When you see this


    Miami Dolphins have traded Ryan Tannehill to the Jacksonville Jaguars for a 2019 4th RD pick

    Then . . . . Our problems are solved

  67. Mike E. says:

    Ken – Really? Why would I ever be sorry if we traded Tannehill? Has he not had the opportunity to succeed here?

    • Ken says:

      He needs to move on but he in the right place can be successful we were not the right place. I am not advocating we hold on to him but I do feel he is nowhere near as bad as many here think

      • Tim Knight says:

        Agreed. He may succeed somewhere else and/or become a journeyman/backup. But he’ll hook up with a team.

  68. Mike E. says:

    Cannot get this song out of my head . . .

  69. mf13ss says:

    I can’t get THIS song out of my head… LUV IT!!!

  70. mf13ss says:

    If Brian Flores can get a decent band together, that’s all I care about. Cam Cameron had trouble, Tony Sparano had trouble, Joe Philbin had trouble, and certainly Adam Gase had trouble.

    • Tim Knight says:

      He’ll get a pass in season one to go through the growing pains with the roster, his staff and his own learning curve. The second season is when you want to start to see his program take shape. The identity of the team.

      Regardless of what anyone thinks of him at this time, the fact that he was handpicked by Grier at least we know they share a vision on what they want this team to be.

      Who knows what QB will look like in 2019, but until we find “our guy”, build the trenches on both sides of the ball so when we do have him he has a chance to succeed from the get go.

  71. mf13ss says:

  72. Mike E. says:

    Ken – What current QB do you think Tannehill can be at his best?

  73. mf13ss says:

    For whatever it may be worth, just click the link. Seems Wiki has determined that we have officially hired Brian Flores as our new HC…

    • Tim Knight says:

      It seems to be a done deal. It’s being reported everywhere. I also saw yesterday that Dallas doesn’t want to lose Kris Richard. Not only will he likely replace Rod Marinelli as DC, but he might become their next HC at some point.

  74. Tim Knight says:

    M13, what do you think of the possibility and I’m just guessing of Hue Jackson becoming our OC? He’s out in Cincy and available. That seems to be a guy Flores could lean on a bit about the ups and downs of being a young first time HC. He’s got a lot of experience as a coach in a lot of places.

    • mf13ss says:

      I wouldn’t be against it, if we couldn’t do better. I’m not saying we could do better, but I don’t know who Flores might have in mind.

      So to answer your question… yeah, I think Hue could be a good selection as OC.

      • mf13ss says:

        I’ll tell ya this, though… I’d rather see us hire Marvin Lewis as our DC than to hire Hue Jackson as our OC. But something tells me Lewis is going to take a year off from football.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Yeah who knows who Flores has on his list due to who he knows or likes as a possibility. Jackson is a vet coach who could probably give him some good insight into what the pitfalls are and a guy who’s been coaching QBs and offense for a lot of years.

  75. wyoming85 says:

    I have a case of beer!

    But you’ll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands!!!!!!!! 😉

  76. Tim Knight says:

    M13, I agree on Marvin Lewis, he seemed to part ways with Cincy as in he wanted out not that he was fired. He had a long tenure there and they were okay – some playoff appearances. Just never got to the next level. I could see Lewis taking a year off as well.

    • mf13ss says:

      I just hope that Flores selects the right people. Ya know, keeping Darren Rizzi would be another wise choice… another leader (he’s been our asst HC) with experience to lean on.

      • Tim Knight says:

        I mentioned Rizzi earlier. Would he be retained yet once again? Or would he want to move on not getting the HC job himself? No doubt Rizzi will get a job on STs, he’s one of the best in the business. I’m pretty sure Flores respects him. He’s been competing against him for 9 years twice a year. LOL

      • mf13ss says:

        Yup, that’s what’s up with Rizzi: does he WANT to stay in Miami as our STs coach, or will he feed a hunger to get his own captain’s chair elsewhere (including college)? Time shall soon reveal…

  77. Tim Knight says:

    Retool the OL and focus the offense on Drake and Ballage, get Gesicki, Smythe and whoever else is at TE involved, along with Stills, Wilson, Grant and even a guy like Butler to start with. We don’t know who the QB is yet but that’s not bad skill to work with. In fact there is a lot of big play potential.

  78. Tim Knight says:

    On defense retool the DL and even look at LB moving forward. I think we’re pretty solid in the secondary. During the cap cleansing I could see some vets out. Work on the front 7.

    • mf13ss says:

      I dunno… I know there’s many different opinions on our LB corps, but I like it. I think if we can get the D-Line fixed, our LBs are more than adequate to both shut down the run and cover. JMO, my focus would be HUGE on our D-Line.

      Our D-Line is where we’ve been losing vs the run, and we can’t generate enough pressure. Again, JMO.

      • Tim Knight says:

        That’s what I was saying but if we’re rebuilding – “On defense retool the DL and even look at LB moving forward.”

        I see Alonso as a trading chip to a team who needs a pro LB who can make an impact. We definitely roll with McMillan and Baker. But another good, young LB would be nice too. Or maybe a young first time UFA even if 2nd tier, but a young guy who has shown some skills and maybe on the rise.

        Not saying Kiko has to go, just looking at contract, age and 2 or 3 years down the line.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      We probably need a whole new DL if we are going to stick with the 4-3

      I think the simple way to put it is to say we need pass rushers

      • Tim Knight says:

        Like we were saying earlier, 4-3/3-4 doesn’t matter. Find DT and DE/OLB/Edge who can be versatile in any role. Teams play nickel/dime 70+% of the time. Playmakers on defense. You’re not shutting every team down every week. But make it difficult to score.

  79. The Flying Pig says:

    Need good,coordinators now

    • Tim Knight says:

      Yeah, that’s why I mentioned Hue Jackson. He’s available, has many years of experience on the offensive side of the ball and has been a HC. I think he’d be a great candidate and valuable asset for a young first time HC.

  80. dcoralsprings says:

    Local radio today had an interesting speculation that both Loggains and Rizzi were in Davie more for pre placement of coordinators than HC candidates IE: they are true staff candidates, lock them up before they get poached

    Who knows but it could be plosable, makes sense for Loggains anyways

    • Tim Knight says:


      Here’s the thing, when a team resets – everyone wants everything cleaned out. That’s not a good practice. Get rid of good people just because they were there when the team didn’t have much success. Everyone goes through that.

      There are ups and downs in life. It doesn’t mean everyone sucks! Coaching is about trying to find the best talent and getting the best out of them. Not creating magic. LOL

  81. son of a son of a shula says:

    The best Tannehill could ever be is Dalton and that ain’t good enough.

    I bet Tannehill dreams he could be Alex Smith- no.

  82. son of a son of a shula says:

    Did Tannehill get fired yet?

  83. Mike E. says:

    Ken – Kirk Cousins I’ll give ya, but I think Cousins has been way overrated and I’ve said here many times they’re not far apart. Alex Smith is better than Tannehill. It’s time for boy wonder to go somewhere else. If he has success, so be it, he couldn’t do it here.

  84. Mike E. says:

    Rob – closer to Dan Pastorini

  85. ocalarob says:

    There are maybe 15 teams with good QBs, that leaves more than half the league QB starved.

  86. ocalarob says:

    Burt Jones was pretty good

  87. ocalarob says:

    my childhood idle was Roman Gabriel, before Miami/ Don Shula, i was a Ram fan, i thought their helmet was kool.

  88. ocalarob says:

    when i was a kid i would watch nfl sunday morning highlights, i loved the slow mo and the music behind it, on monday morning i would walk to school and pretend i was running the ball in slomo, i would be humming the music…stiff arming defenders..celebrating in the endzone…the neighbors saw this and told my mother…they thought i was touched!

  89. naplesfan2010 says:

    I liked Fran Tarkenton and Warren Moon and Dan Fouts … back then, not now.

    PS: j/k Rob

    You were touched by the sport.

  90. naplesfan2010 says:

    I would need to be convinced about Hue Jackson, very unimpressed with his body of work.

    I don’t want to jinx it, so I won’t say who I want for OC and DC.

    I am ambivalent about Flores if he really is the guy.

    Great rags to riches story, looks the part, good energy, skimpy on management experience …

    would need an extra large can of lysol though

  91. Mike E. says:

    I loved NFL films. My friends and I always did those slo mo running motions and throwing and catching, just like the films. I liked Jim Zorn, he was exciting to watch. Hated Bert Jones because the Colts were our division rival back then

  92. naplesfan2010 says:

    Rob I know exactly what you mean.
    I used to do Oscar Robertson moves before I could even reach the basket from the free throw line.

    And slo mo is the only way i could do Walter Payton.

  93. Mike E. says:

    Not happy that Gase is probably going to get Gregg Williams. That’s a great hire. We get Matt Burke, Jets get Gregg Williams. I guess he’s learning

    • naplesfan2010 says:

      yeah let’s see if Williams actually has anything left in the tank.

      Gase does need a DC he can just hire and forget about though, as he has no intention of being involved with the defense.

      I hate how the jests are stacking up; they could be dangerous.

  94. naplesfan2010 says:

    on the good side
    if Gase can pull a Miami Miracle once a year,
    then that will help us in our quest to win the division
    by giving the cheats a loss they don’t usually have.

  95. Mike E. says:

    I think Williams has plenty in the tank. You could easily make the argument that he deserved the HC job in Cleveland as much as Kitchens. They went with Kitchens for continuity with Mayfield, but Williams did good work there

    • New Age says:

      Yeah, big fan of Williams. He’s done good work over the years. Pissed as well that we had Burke and he gets Williams.

      • Mike E. says:

        He (Gase) needs a pro, because the super genius has his head up his ass when it comes to defense, and he got one in Gregg Williams. Matt Burke will probably never climb back up to DC in the NFL.

  96. The Flying Pig says:

    I just hope we hire good OC and DCs

    I don’t want to see this fire the OC after year 1 then get a new one and hope it turns around
    The coordinators are in the coach
    If we hire a rookie coach a vet coordinator probably would be very helpful

    Let’s have a cohesive unit from day 1 and give them a shit to build something – together

    • I agree. I really wanted Bieniemy to be the guy but you can’t argue the team didn’t get a guy of high character and integrity as their leader. But, he needs to have really good ppl with him and, hopefully, they’re experienced, so they can keep from him having too much on his plate to start.

      If they can do that and Grier can start building the team thru the draft and just limit FA to a couple key players then we should be on the right track. I don’t see any temper tantrums coming from this guy and, one thing is for sure, the players won’t be able to take advantage of him; rookie HC or not.

      • New Age says:

        I wouldn’t mind Hue. He’s a terrible HC but his offenses were good in Cincy and Oakland. Dalton had his best year under him and Hue got decent work from Jason Campbell of all people in Oakland. He’s desperate to show he’s better than his HC record is. Hue knows how to run the ball as well. He’s not the best but he has lots of experience in many offensive positions and has done well with a limited amount on his plate.

      • I keep seeing Caldwell as the guy coming with him but my first choice would be Kubiak

      • Tim Knight says:

        Hue Jackson had no chance in CLE when he was HC. Management botched that team up over and over during his tenure and then when they finally had good players this year they fired him.

        Jim Caldwell would be another vet coach that could help Flores.

  97. BailBondMike says:

    Tim, I agree with you on trying to trade Kiko. I would think we could/should get more than a 4th even if we give up one of our 7th’s and Kiko for a late 2nd or 3rd round pick. Also, in addition to McMillan and Baker, I think we have not yet seen the best of Chase Allen with his size and speed. IMO, he (plus McMillan and Baker) just need better coaching and they will get that and then some with Flores.

  98. mf13ss says:

  99. BailBondMike says:

    Your Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 13: Ferrell, Clelin, DE, Clemson (A+)
    Round 2 Pick 13: Wilkins, Christian, DT, Clemson (A+)
    Round 3 Pick 12: Love, Julian, CB, Notre Dame (A+)
    Round 4 Pick 13: Hyatt, Mitch, OT, Clemson (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 13: Bradbury, Garrett, C, North Carolina State (A+)
    Round 6 Pick 13: Boyd, Kris, CB, Texas (A+)
    Round 7 Pick 17: Alaka, Otaro, ILB, Texas AM (A+)

  100. stangerx says:

    So Flores was calling the D signals for New England and has been both their LB and S coach. And the Pats are the prime example of the 3 safety scheme. Last I checked we have 3 good to great safeties.

    • Tim Knight says:

      He also coached on offense and STs along the way. He’s been in NE for 14 years. Something from that dynasty had to rub off. I mean we all know it’s Belichick and Brady. The Pats are not an overly talented team but they are always well prepared. Do your job!

  101. Randy says:

    The scheme you play affects how you fill out your roster. Most teams play sone of both throughout a season but have one that is their base. You simply need more LBers and fewer DL in a 3/4.

  102. Tim Knight says:

    Lou, the win now approach didn’t work for us so I think you’re going to get your wish in building the team the right way now. Flores has no pressure to win right away and he’ll get to build the team he prefers along with Grier. It’s a good situation for a young first time HC. He’ll inherit some good young talent to start with as well.

    What will be different and fun for us fans this offseason is that pretty much every position except for safety will be on our radar early in the draft. Just take the best players and before you know it your roster is stacked.

  103. mf13ss says:

  104. Tim Knight says:

  105. Tim Knight says:

    It looks Chiefs/Colts is going to be a snowy winter game in KC. This should be interesting being both teams are top offenses.

  106. mf13ss says:

    Tim Knight says:
    January 12, 2019 at 2:14 pm
    I’d be cool with him in Miami. I always liked his philosophy on offense.
    Same here. I’ve always respected Kubiak and hope he’s our next OC.

  107. Tim Knight says:

    Jake Rudock PS stats from this past season with the Lions.
    12/19 84 YDS 0TD 0INT
    23/30 171 YDS 1TD 0INT Rush TD 1YD
    9/12 58 YDS 1TD 0INT
    14/24 112 YDS 1TD 0INT

    68.2 comp pct.

  108. dbolt48 says:

    LOL….Mike, just had to say after talking on Twitter yesterday I had to grab some omme gang when I saw it today😂

  109. Mike E. says:

    Tim – Haven’t spoken to him since the Fest, which is quite a while ago. I should hit him up, see how he is.

  110. Mike E. says:

    DBolt – Happy with Flores? Who would you like as OC and DC?

    • dbolt48 says:

      Flores seems like a really balanced guy and I love the fact he came in the scouting department.

      OC, Is be fine w/ Caldwell.

      DC, I’d like to see a John Fox or maybe Greg Schianno.

      • Mike E. says:

        Interesting w/Schiano. I do want a veteran guy, let Flores do his job w/o being overburdened worrying about too many things.

  111. dbolt48 says:

    Good to see you Tim👍

  112. Tim Knight says:

    Greg Schianno did leave OSU for NFL opportunities so he’s available.

    • Mike E. says:

      I know he left, just interesting that it’s the guy DBolt wants. I like Schiano, he may have been over his head as HC in the NFL, but I would like him as a DC

      • Tim Knight says:

        Not that it matters but he’s never been a DC at the NFL level. But having HC experience at both the college and NFL level is a plus.

      • dbolt48 says:

        Not that I truly want the guy, but rather it’s a guy who’d be familiar with any NE D scheme Flores might want to employ. I prefer seamless transitions as it helps in the teaching process if everyone is on the same page.

  113. Mike E. says:

    DBolt – Speaking of seams, you think we’ll see Gesicki get some action next season? WTF!

    • dbolt48 says:

      I’d think so. I think the OL & Wilson injuries hampered the TEs and WRs. I think Gesicki & Smythe will be fine long term though. They definitely need to be more involved and I think they will. If I’m Miami I’m targeting David Sills in the draft as a RZ target WR. You do that and you will have legit RZ threats and will ease coverage on both.

  114. Tim Knight says:

    Steve Spagnuolo is out there too.

    • dbolt48 says:

      I’ve thought about that, but has he done much when he hasn’t had a shit ton of pass rushers in his team?

      • Tim Knight says:

        Not sure but I do know he’ll bring the blitz as he learned under Jim Johnson in Philly. The thing that’s appealing about him is he’s coached in big games.

      • dbolt48 says:

        No doubt….like I said so just don’t know his splits on his D when he’s had an amazing stable of rushers vs an avg stable of Rushers. I’d prefer someone who does more w/ less, but once again I can’t say what he’s done w/ less as I haven’t dived into that.

  115. mf13ss says:

    Gase was foolish to let Damien Williams walk.

    • stangerx says:

      Chiefs signed him on the cheap. If Gase was foolish then so were about every other team.

      • mf13ss says:

        I believe he was a RFA, and we didn’t want to pay him the money it would cost. After releasing him, we could have brought him back on the cheap.

      • mf13ss says:

        And I see the Chefs* only signed him for 500K less than it would have cost us to re-sign him on his RFA tender. Again, Gase was foolish.

  116. Tim Knight says:

    Damien Williams was a UFA, he played 4 seasons with us.

  117. Mike E. says:

    M – I thought I heard them say during one of the last games the Chiefs played in the regular season that the Chiefs re-signed Damien Williams to a 2 YR extension.

    • mf13ss says:

      Well if that’s the case (I see Tim’s link is dated late December this year), we were still foolish not to re-sign him on the cheap as the Chefs* had, on the initial 2018 contract.

    • Tim Knight says:

      They did, I saw the report too when it happened and it’s out there with a simple search.

  118. dbolt48 says:

    Williams signed the extension.

  119. mf13ss says:

  120. mf13ss says:

    Tim Knight says:
    January 12, 2019 at 5:15 pm
    It doesn’t really matter as we have Drake and Ballage which I think is a nice tandem.
    I disagree, based on my original post stating that Gase was foolish to let Damien walk. It would be pretty outstanding to have all of Drake, Damien, and Ballage!

    And remember, Damien signed the contract extension in December, as you keenly pointed out. My point was that the Chefs* originally signed him this last offseason for just south of what his RFA contract was asking for.

    But I’ll say this much… GRAND for Damien! I’m happy to see him earn that contract extension… just wish it had been with us!

    • Tim Knight says:

      I don’t care anymore about Gase and this past season. They’re both over. I’m a Damien Williams fan and I’m happy for him. He has a chance to go the Super Bowl as the KC beat down on Indy has begun.

      We’re fine at RB. Both guys can take it to the house and they’re both good receivers.

      • mf13ss says:

        As a big fan of Damien Williams too, that’s why I feel the way I do! 😀

        But yes, it’s all water under the bridge at this point.

  121. Tim Knight says:

    Remember too, even though Damien Williams did some nice things for us, he’s on the Chiefs offense.

  122. BailBondMike says:

    Start writing your commencement speech — Based on all the A+ grades looks like you are that draft’s valedictorian.
    Stanger, no valedictorian for me. I got A+ on all my picks and “First Pick” gave me an overall grade of A- and was the 4th best draft. WTF? LOL

  123. Tim Knight says:

    The fact that Brian Flores had Greg Roman as a OC candidate is a good sign for the running game. He was Jim Harbaugh’s OC at Stanford and SF and they pounded the ball.

    • mf13ss says:

      That being the case, gotta believe we’ll be focusing on upgrading the big uglies on the Offensive side of the ball.

      • mf13ss says:

        And IF we’d land Gary Kubiak, ya know we’d be focusing on the run as well.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Yep and yup on both of your posts. While we search for a QB, build the trenches on both sides. You can always compete when you’re good up front.

  124. mf13ss says:

  125. Tim Knight says:

    Blocked punt for a TD was huge for Indy.

  126. mf13ss says:

    I cannot help but root for the Chefs*. Too many of their players are ones I wanted to draft vs the clear fact that Jim Irsay intentionally sucked for Luck, kicking Peyton Manning out the door.

  127. mf13ss says:

    Former NFL Hall of Fame inductee Andrew Luck drove the ball down the field well this past drive… only for their kicker to DOINK it off the upright.

  128. Rockphin says:

    I agree with OD! Ross has to go! Fuck! Fuck fuck fuck fuck! FUCK! Fucking fucker! Fuck!

    • stangerx says:

      Same Q as to OD — how do you make that happen? For me it is what it is, and Ross did give us Fest shade.

      • Tim Knight says:

        The new owner is already in place in Bruce Beal Jr., a business partner and friend of Ross.

      • stangerx says:

        Ross would still have to die or turn over to Beal though. And Beal would have to want to buy the team, but have to figure the first refusal deal would not be in place unless he does want that.

  129. stangerx says:

    And they didn’t even bring up that it was tipped. Making a 43 yard FG is harder than it seems.
    By around 9:30, the last of 100 spots in Goose Island Beer Company’s field goal challenge had been claimed. All had come with the idea that they – former soccer players, out-of-shape middle-aged men, and everyone in between – could do what Chicago Bears kicker Cody Parkey couldn’t: Make a 43-yard field goal rather than double-doink it.

    And they were wrong. Very wrong. At least 100 tried. Fighting snow and a headwind, every single one failed. And many did so in hilarious fashion.

  130. mf13ss says:

    • Tim Knight says:

      I don’t expect many of the coaches from Gase to remain. Maybe 2-3. Once Flores hires his coordinators the trickle down starts as those two guys then bring in their asst. coaches they’re comfortable with in their systems.

  131. Tim Knight says:

    Chiefs looking to end their 0-6 playoff drought at home and their 0-4 record all time against the Colts.

  132. mf13ss says:


  133. mf13ss says:

    INCREDIBLE that we’re #5 on this list, after all of the ineptitude over the last two dozen years.

    • stangerx says:

      Almost makes you think we shouldn’t feel so sorry for ourselves. Lots of teams have had it worse.

    • Tim Knight says:

      We made the playoffs 9 times in those last two dozen years. Not saying that’s good, but when you add that to the early success and half of the 80’s and some early 90’s, it adds up.

  134. mf13ss says:

    Tim Knight says:
    January 12, 2019 at 7:01 pm
    9 of the 12 HCs in the playoffs are 1st time HCs.
    I hear that… and I’ll raise ya that both Tony Sparano and Adam Gase made the playoffs in their first seasons as first-time HCs for us…

  135. Tim Knight says:

    Just going to throw this out there. Andrew Luck looked like Tannehill in the 4th quarter of the Cincy game for most of the KC game. It happens. 😉

  136. Tim Knight says:

    The Chiefs have score 26 or more points in every game this season. That’s an NFL record.

  137. mf13ss says:

  138. stangerx says:

    One thing we know for sure is that if Eric Bieniemy is our next HC that we won’t know that for at least another 9 days.

  139. Ken says:

    So we have a new HC is anyone excited?

  140. Tim Knight says:

    Here’s the thing, what HC candidate excited you? Nobody knows how any of this is going to go for all 8 teams who hired new HCs. As we rebuild the roster, Flores can learn on the job. Unless it’s a disaster, he’ll be expected to start winning in 2021. Buckle up folks, that’s what blow it up means. 😉

  141. Randy says:

    I guarantee you Flores will say his goal is to win this season.

    • Ken says:


    • Tim Knight says:

      Of course. No coach coaches to lose. It’s a stupid thing with tanking and all that nonsense.

      The thing is when you strip the roster of high vet salaries you’re most likely going to go through a .500 or less season.

      You always want your players to compete. But who are they?

  142. mf13ss says:

    • New Age says:

      I’m not impressed so far. Guy has moved around a LOT. Honestly, he looks like another Burke from that resume.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Patrick Graham was with NE from 09-15. Flores (04-present) knows him and likely respects him. They come from the same cloth. You would hire who you know and prefer too. LOL

      • Tim Knight says:

        Graham has extensive experience in the 3-4 DEF.

  143. Randy says:

    I think we’re gonna end up with a coaching staff made up of leftovers and whomever we can get. It’s not like Flores will have his pick of guys.

  144. Randy says:

    I just love these platitudes. If it truly is “hard to win in this league”, then why can every single team win “any given Sunday”? Sounds like it’s pretty easy to win if any team can win any given Sunday. Lol

  145. Ken says:

    I just watched Lael Collins sack his own QB

  146. wyoming85 says:

    Well it’s not a butt fumble!

  147. The Flying Pig says:

  148. Tim Knight says:

    Rams take care of business.

  149. You all realize Flores is not a given. Phins can’t officially make an offer nor can he accept until Pats are out of playoffs without risking a tampering penalty. He can still reject and we can still hire someone else so, until it actually happens, the Flores thing is mere speculation

  150. New Age says:

    Honestly, this is my biggest problem with Flores and probably a few of the other candidates. Limited amount of connections to top coaching talent. Bret isn’t a great coach. He’s been ok but was unable to adjust to the SEC and a loudmouth who couldn’t back up his arrogance. Graham also looks unimpressive. As Lou said, Flores isn’t a given and neither are the random rumors we’ve heard. I’ll just hope they are wrong.

  151. ElephantRider says:

    Looks like I didn’t miss any good games today.

  152. Mike E. says:

    RIP Kooch

  153. ocalarob says:

    They should change the playoff format, i think giving the #1 and #2 seed a bye is just too huge of an advantage, very unfair.

    i wonder what the NFL record is for this? it has to be one sided. not only does the higher seed have to face the lower seed at their home the lower seed also gets a week rest.

    it should be the lowest seed vs the highest seed in all formats and maybe give all teams a one week bye, then we will have the best 2 teams in the sb.

  154. ocalarob says:


  155. ocalarob says:

    Mike E. says:
    January 12, 2019 at 10:21 pm
    I always kid with my wife that Ray Liotta is saying, My nose is now 13 times bigger than it was when I was young, so I tried Chantix to try and shrink it. Seriously, WTF happened to Liotta’s nose?

    Tim Knight says:
    January 12, 2019 at 10:54 pm
    My guess is coke.

    REALLY!, i’ll have to stop drinking that shit then

  156. ocalarob says:

    well if we’re going to hire Richard we should find out soon enough, if he isn’t named shortly you can bet Flores is the target.

  157. I don’t agree with the idea that we’re not going to necessarily win as many games as we’ve been winning or we’re going to go 3-13 because we’re in a rebuild mode instead of a win-now mode. That argument doesn’t make sense.

    You hire a good enough coaching staff and you build the team by bringing in top quality players and you can still win 7 or 8 games a season without signing these washed up has-beens from other teams to short-term contracts.

    You get yourself a blue chip guy in the first on the defensive side of the ball and a young stud on the offensive line in this draft, which is very possible to do, and then go out next year and draft with the same mindset and this team will still be at least as competitive as it’s been the last two or three seasons.

    • naplesfan2010 says:

      I agree with that.
      I think we have a lot of speed on offense and some really good young talent on defense.
      We can compete.
      Draft DT and DE, and we could be a surprise team. (by going 8-8-ish)

      Two issues. 1) Unknown QB and unknown coaching staff
      2) we must play a 2nd place schedule,
      meaning we must play Indy away and LAC @ home as our extra games.

  158. ocalarob says:

    If this team wins 7 or 8 games next year we are still stuck in mediocrity and have very little chance of getting a franchise QB.
    that doesn’t seem the path we are taking according to Ross

  159. ocalarob says:

    If you’re going to build this team thru the draft you need early picks, you need multiple 1st rnders, this is not a 1 year fix.
    trade your number one pick this year for a later pick and a number 1 pick next year. build draft capital by doing it again next year, continue doing that until your team is loaded.

    the worst case scenario this year is your team will suck, but that’s probably the case anyway no matter who you select with that #1 pick

    • naplesfan2010 says:

      with the great selection of DE and DT this year, no way I am giving up a chance to get the next Aaron Donald or von Miller though, followed by a starter in the DL also in the 2nd round.

      If anything this might be a year to trade up a little to grab that guy in the first or that other guy in the 2nd. We don’t need picks in the 5th -7th. We have got lots of those guys.

    • New Age says:

      This is a smart draft strategy but some of that talent available at #13 this could be blue chip, 10 year players. I’m not sure we could or should pass on that caliber of player.

    • I don’t believe that for a second. If you’re a 7 win team and you’re in the high teens in draft position you can trade up to get your guy if you want. Trading down for a lesser talent in the first rd in order to use a future first rd pick to trade up and get your guy doesn’t make sense.

      You take the players who will help your team the most. You don’t pass up on a blue chip defensive lineman in the first rd this year to get a lesser talent in the first. More picks doesn’t mean anything if you don’t know how to assess the talent in the draft and you aren’t picking the right guys for your team.

  160. New Age says:

    Naples, exactly! AD was pick #13 and is probably the best defensive player in the NFL. He’s unbelievable and I think some of the talent this year is close to that level. That Clemson DL was unstoppable this year and almost all of them are in this draft.

  161. son of a son of a shula says:

    He was one of the best
    RIP Kuechenberg

  162. naplesfan2010 says:

    So Rob, I get what you are saying, but what if we flip that and try to build the DL and OL this year since there is no really great QB coming out (assuming that is what they think, too)

    Then we go for our new superstar the next year. (or shove it all back to go for Trevor)
    I say do it like Rams and Eagles did it by trading away both 2020 and 2021 #1s to trade up and get that guy we want. If you get that true franchise QB, you can be where LA and Philly are now very quickly and not even care about not having a First Rounder for one year.

    • Yep. I think you use the next two drafts to build your team the right way. Get your blue chip talent on both lines in here and get this team solid and use FA sparingly for the time being. Be wise about the guys you bring in and if they’re just short-term guys then I wouldn’t start them just to win games.

      If you’re drafting guys early then you let them play and develop and go thru the growing pains with them. Don’t be bringing in vets at those positions like we’ve been and have them standing on the sidelines because the vet gives you a better chance of winning games over the next two seasons.

      You draft guys for a reason. Why do they have young talent at positions and never use them?

    • ocalarob says:

      going from 13 to #1 will cost more than our pick this year and next, you don’t need a #13 pick to build the OL & DL, assuming we win 7 or 8 games next year as some have suggested puts us in a spot where we can’t go for our super star next year.

      i agree build draft capitol for the next two seasons and target trevor in the 2021 draft

  163. ocalarob says:

    we picked Minkah last year, great player but if you had to do it all over and you traded back and this year you have 2 number 1s also the player you traded back for.

    we were lucky to get Minkah, but would you trade Minkah right now for say a vander esch and a #1 this year, was Minkah that valuable?

    • naplesfan2010 says:

      I don’t think you could’ve gotten a #1 this year by doing that deal you mention.

    • why would you trade a guy you just used a first on? that doesn’t make any sense. you continue to develop him. he definitely helped our defense this season and he’s got a real shot at getting a lot better.

      keep building on what we’ve got. why would you tear it down like that? I could see trading Reshad because he’s older and getting in some young talent back there or just going with McDonald and Fitz for now but trading a young guy like Fitz would be a terrible idea.

      We get a blue chip DT in the first and let’s say we got either one of the better guards or centers in the second or even a guy like Ferguson at DE in the 2nd we’re going in the right direction. Then you continue to build on that.

      And, if we have an honest quarterback competition maybe we’re better off there too rather than just handing a mediocre qb the job every year.

      • ocalarob says:

        you’re missing the point, first of all there’s no way dallas would make that trade.

        it’s a hypothetical theory that may have played out last year if we had that strategy,
        so going forward it may be wise to move in that direction.
        build draft capitol

  164. New Age says:


    Im not an Oliver fan but salivate at the chance for Wilkins, Ferrell, or Simmons. I think Gary will definitely be gone but same for him.

    • There’s just so much talent on the d-line I even forgot about Ferrell. I’d like to see them go bigger at DE with a guy like Ferrell rather than drafting these speed rush guys like Harris. Harris would be great in a 3-4 as a pass rusher but was the wrong guy in a 4-3.

  165. naplesfan2010 says:

    What about that big guy in the middle for Clemson who got suspended? 6’5 340
    There’s your unblockable 1 tech right? Your NT when we go 3-4
    weighs 340 and still has some quicks,

    Dexter Lawrence, ranks No. 14 on Mel Kiper’s Big Board of the top 25 draft prospects. A starter since his true freshman season, Lawrence has been a force in the interior of the Tigers’ vaunted defensive line, earning All-ACC honors twice.

    Lawrence’s departure means Clemson loses all four of its starting defensive linemen, as Clelin Ferrell, Christian Wilkins and Austin Bryant are all seniors.

    But there will be some tough questions for Lawrence to answer during the draft vetting process, as he was suspended for the College Football Playoff after testing positive for a banned substance in December.

    During media day for the Goodyear Cotton Bowl, Lawrence said he didn’t know how the banned substance appeared in the drug test he took.

  166. ocalarob says:

    In oreder to be real good we need to first be real bad.

    that’s just the way it is.

    See Jon Gruden.

  167. Mike E. says:

    Remember, we’re going to have an extra 2020 3rd pick for Reshad, and a 4th RD pick for Tannehill. Maybe we can get another 4th RD pick for Alonso. That will give us some ammo in 2020. That’s 2020 vision right there!

  168. ocalarob says:

    I think Bellichick will have 7 dbs against SD to stop Rivers and make them beat him with the running game, just like he did to us in the first game this year.

  169. naplesfan2010 says:

    We pick at #13, right? That won’t change in round 1, right? Lawrence, Wilkins, Raekwon Davis, Jerry Tillery, Zach Allen, Montez Sweat will all be there then.

    That’s a sweet spot. That is currently where Will Grier in round 2 sits. (OMG that’s so tempting)

    • ocalarob says:

      would you trade the 13 overall for sweat and a late 1st rnder next year?

      because he’s slated to go mid 20s

      • naplesfan2010 says:

        Why would a playoff team trade up from 26 to 13? Who would they want so badly at #13 that they would give up two first round picks for him?

      • ocalarob says:

        you can always find a team willing to trade up, when that #13 pick rolls around, and the comish is announcing #12, that pick is very valuable at that point.

        a playoff team would be the first to want to trade up because they have all the pieces and that luxury pick could put them over the top.

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      I think Raekwon Davis said he’s staying in school

  170. ocalarob says:

    naplesfan2010 says:
    January 13, 2019 at 11:06 am
    I don’t think you could’ve gotten a #1 this year by doing that deal you mention.

    maybe not but you certainly may have gotten a 2nd and more,
    maybe trading from 11 to the mid to late 20s net you a 1st next year

  171. naplesfan2010 says:

    In the 3rd round at our spot are both the starting C and OG from both wisconsin and NC state, all 4 will likely become NFL starters at a spot we need. And Tre LaMarr will be there too at that Big Thumper MLB spot if we need another 3-4 ILB

  172. naplesfan2010 says:

    Instead of Grier @ 45 we could look at getting that other starter at CB like Trayvon Mullen or ND’s Julian Love if you like him better.

  173. New Age says:


    It’s the best draft I can remember for DL talent in ages. You could make a case for 3 Clemson DL being 1st rounders and then add Bosa, Q. Williams,Simmons, Gary, Polite, and Oliver and it’s utterly ridiculous. Clelin is my favorite though and heres a nice article of him vs the top OL talent in this draft, J. Williams of Bama.

    • naplesfan2010 says:

      Bosa and Q will be gone before us for sure, but Gary might slide down to 11.
      depending on QB mania
      Would you trade up 2 spots for him?

    • I’m not a big fan of Polite in a 4-3. Again, I think we need to get away from these speed rushers if we’re staying in a 4-3 scheme. Polite would be great if we’re going 3-4 but I wouldn’t touch him in a 4-3 because he’ll never set the edge.

      At 6’2″ 245 there’s little room to add mass and he’s even on the short side for a defensive end. I’d like my DE’s to be a bit taller and bigger. At 6’4″ Sweat has some room to grow and so does Ferguson at 6’5″

      But, yeah, the defensive side of the ball is loaded in this draft and we’re going to get a blue chip guy there in the first rd if we’re smart about it. Like Grier says, trust the process.

      • New Age says:

        I don’t like Polite either but someone will. I consider the DTs to be a better class this year than DE. I’m not completely against going OL or another position but believe there is a better chance of finding an elite DT at #13 than any other position.

      • I agree. we’ve got a definite shot at a blue chip guy on the defensive side of the ball in the first. We should also have a really good shot at a guard or center in the 2nd rd as well.

  174. ocalarob says:

    you have to think future, sure it would suck giving up our #13 to go back to the late 20s, but next year when we have a #3 and a #15
    ……… guys will be licking your chops!

  175. naplesfan2010 says:

    thing about Ferrell is he is something of a late bloomer…he has more upside than achievement thus far…he will get much stronger in the NFL weight room as he grows into his body.

    I haven’t read the article yet, but it seemed that Ferrell learned during the game and improved against that top LT as the game progressed.

  176. I just don’t like the idea of accumulating draft picks. Nobody can predict the future. When you’ve got a chance to improve your team because of the talent that’s there in the draft you take it. You don’t defer to another year where the talent might not be as great. You don’t know who’s going to be out there two years from now.

    • stangerx says:

      I do like accumulating draft picks though. Main reason is you normally get a good deal from orgs who are in the “win now” mode, whether cause they see the ring or their FO is on the hot seat. The evil genius fleeced teams like that for many years.

      • If you’re a team that can afford to do it because you’ve got a pretty good team already and it’s not the greatest year for talent in a draft then you can see doing something like that.

        However, when you have holes on your team that need to be filled and there’s a lot of talent in the draft that can help your team you don’t accumulate picks for the future. That’s just piss poor management. Can you imagine sitting there at #13 in the war room with two or three of those guys staring you in the face and everyone’s like “okay, which one we taking? Probably can’t go wrong with either of them” and saying “nope, I’m going to trade back and take a lesser talent because I want to accumulate draft picks for the future”.

        By taking a blue chip defender at #13 you ARE building for the future. That is what I think isn’t hitting home.

      • stangerx says:

        Obviously depends on who you can get at the time, but you don’t have to be a good team to do it. You’ve put out the Browns a time or two…. look at how many picks they got. And that team is looking on the serious upswing now. If we are truly going to rebuild, just find it hard to see that not a possible way to go. And whatever picks you get will be there in one or two years…. not like 2030.

    • New Age says:

      I agree except for late round picks. Usually, those end up as ST guys and you find good substitutes for that with undrafted guys. I’m sure it’s hard to get rid of the late round guys but I’d always be looking for ways to get rid of those picks if possible.

  177. stangerx says:

    The Patriots finished with their worst regular-season record since 2009. They were 11-5. Must be nice to be a Pats fan…. and heard SPECTRE has great benefits too. 🙂

  178. I like Joe Rose……………..because he was a Phin, but his constant pounding the idea that you can find offensive linemen in any rd just gets on my nerves. It’s not true.

    • New Age says:

      I agree with him to a point. You really need three strong guys on your line and that’s usually a pick in the first few rounds. KC is rolling with a later round guy starting though. You can have a couple lower round OL if you have a great OL coach. It makes it a lot harder on these young QBs so I would try to have at least 3 guys in the first 3 rounds and optimally 4 of yours guys from there.

      I really think OL is one of the positions where coaching makes the biggest difference. These guys come out from college unprepared for the modern NFL and the reduced practices really hurt their chances to hit the ground running.

  179. ocalarob says:

    professorloumiamidolphinsblog says:
    January 13, 2019 at 11:47 am
    I just don’t like the idea of accumulating draft picks. Nobody can predict the future

    well we haven’t been accumulating draft picks….how’s that working for you???

    • well, let me answer your question with a question? if you’re saying the ppl making the decisions aren’t doing a good enough job of picking the talent then what does accumulating draft picks for the future really accomplish?

      All it does is give them more ammunition to make more shitty picks.

      Nope, when you’ve got a draft like there is this year with the talent that’s available you take the guys who are there that will help your team. Build your team with talent. It takes 11 guys on offense and 11 guys on defense to win games. As we found out with Suh, one guy isn’t going to make that much of a difference by himself. It’s a collection of players at different positions all doing their jobs together that win games.

      Do your job as scouts and as GM and properly evaluate the talent that’s out there and how it fits what you’re trying to accomplish and get the players you need to make your team better. That’s how you build a team. There’s teams that are in the 20’s every year and they win consistently because they have a strong organization. You win consistently by making the right decisions; not by tanking to try and get higher in the 1st rd.

  180. mf13ss says:

    • stangerx says:

      If we are looking for the franchise in 2020 then we are going serious rebuild. Also makes the chances greater that Tanny is our starter in 2019.

      • no it doesn’t because if you’re serious about a rebuild and didn’t like what Gase was doing with his “win-now” mentality then you’re not keeping a guy around just to get you a better shot at winning a couple extra games.

        if tannehill isn’t in the future plans it only makes sense they’d cut him loose now, whether it be by trade or just straight cut, and move on.

      • naplesfan2010 says:

        2020 is next year.

      • stangerx says:

        Naples — and looking for a QB in 2020 who we still have to get ready after that, means yeah it is a rebuild.

  181. I’m excited for a new year with a new HC and if Flores IS the guy I do like the fact that he’s not being heralded as either an offensive or defensive genius but is being put out as more of a leader; as a head coach.

    I’m much more comfortable with a guy who will be a leader as a head coach than a guy who is great at either side of the ball. Gase might have been one of the brightest offensive minds out there. Maybe he is. But, him being an offensive genius didn’t translate well to him being a great or even good head coach.

    If Flores is a strong head coach, a guy who holds people accountable and doesn’t back down and also holds his coaches accountable to do their jobs and also lets the people making the personnel decisions do their jobs then we could have a better formula than we’ve had in a long time.

    Going to be interesting to see who is added to the staff.

  182. seriously, if you’re a GM and it’s your job to make the team into the best team you can and you’ve got a shot at adding some real talent to the roster and you pass for the future you’re going to have a real tough time selling the fan base on that shit.

    I sure as hell wouldn’t be happy with another Earl Thomas sitting there for the taking and pass on him to get someone not nearly as good just to accumulate draft picks. What exactly does that accomplish? You just took another player who won’t help your team as much just to try and get a player in the future who will help your team more. Insanity.

  183. naplesfan2010 says:

    Getting two grade B+ guys instead of one A+ guy just means you have two weak spots you still must someday soon upgrade. And you did not get the guy who will make you a playoff winner.

  184. ocalarob says:

    professorloumiamidolphinsblog says:
    January 13, 2019 at 12:16 pm
    well, let me answer your question with a question? if you’re saying the ppl making the decisions aren’t doing a good enough job of picking the talent then what does accumulating draft picks for the future really accomplish?

    I never said that “the ppl making decisions aren’t doing a good job”,

    you’re drifting again

    when you read… there’s this little thing that is quite crucial,
    it’s called comprehension.
    It’s a critical part in any discussion

  185. ocalarob says:

    The ppl making the decisions do not have enough ammo to turn this team around, you have to build your ammo.

  186. naplesfan2010 says:

    another thing is the serendipity that what is so good about this draft aligns perfectly with what we need most.

    If this draft were great at WR or RB or even TE or S, I’d not be so sure of what to do.

    But we badly need edge setting pass rushers and run-stuffing middle pressure guys. That is what this draft has to offer. DTs and DEs.

    • ocalarob says:

      There’s an old saying in the real estate market, you buy in a buyers market and you sell in a sellers market.
      all drafts are great in some areas and not so great in others.

      • naplesfan2010 says:

        what if you like where you live? or get a job transfer and must move?
        Then whether it is a buyer or a seller market matters little.

        Pure rules rarely purely apply.

      • ocalarob says:

        your scenario doesn’t apply,
        i’m talking investment to make money, or in this case investment to make a team good.
        when teams draft a player they are looking for riches

    • exactly right. if it were strong at positions we don’t need then you could see trading back and setting yourself up for the future while still trying to get the best bang for your buck in the current draft.

      this draft is just too good from a talent perspective for what we need to play games. doing it right means you get the players you need when they’re there. Meanwhile, teams around you are building their teams and you’re not getting any better.

      What’s the mentality, “yeah, we’re not getting better now but just wait until we move up and get that qb”? Doesn’t make sense. So, you still can’t stop the run, stop teams from scoring and can’t run the ball but that ONE guy will make it all right.

  187. naplesfan2010 says:

    The 3rd and 4th rounds will thus have really good OGs and Centers left over from the glut of DL going earlier. So we could get 2 DL and 2 OL and have all 4 of them be starters for us almost immediately. (in 2 yrs) which we need as our FA LG and C are elders coming off injuries and our RG is a UDFA. Surely a 3rd rnd OG can be found that is better than a UDFA OG. Move Davis to depth and he’s great.

  188. ocalarob says:

    naplesfan2010 says:
    January 13, 2019 at 12:40 pm
    Odrick and Misi together never came close to Earl Thomas.

    ocalarob says:
    January 13, 2019 at 12:52 pm
    but they certainly did to Ryan Matthews, the player that was traded for them
    not too mention those picks all came in the same draft, i’m talking next year picks for this year, which is more valuable due to the time.

    • when you’re building a team you don’t pass on the talent that is there now for the talent that MAY be there in the future because you can’t predict the future. If you’ve got a shot at really good players who can help your team you take it.

      You don’t defer to the future. You talk real estate. I’ll give you better example. Future value of money. Money is worth less in the future than it is today because of inflation. Future draft picks are the same thing. Future draft picks are worth less than current picks.

      You just don’t pass up on talent. You’ve got to be building so when you’ve got a guy you want at a position like qb you’ve got talent around him to help him out rather than having a shit team and now you’ve got to take three years of his rookie contract to try and get talent around him.

  189. naplesfan2010 says:

    2020 is just next year!

    • ocalarob says:

      exactly, not that far away, so why wouldn’t you use your #13 this year to build equity in just 12 months?
      trading back and aquiring future picks for future drafts is the way to build a team.

      we’ve been selecting our picks every year and where has that gotten us?

  190. mf13ss says:

    On “The NFL Today”, JLC reported (LOL) that the Jags are moving on from Blake Bortles. He mentioned that they might trade for Joe Flacco or Ryan Tannehill. Take it for what it’s worth, coming from JLC.

  191. naplesfan2010 says:

    12 San Diego Chargers Ryan Mathews RB Fresno State
    13 Philadelphia Eagles Brandon Graham DE Michigan
    14 Seattle Seahawks Earl Thomas FS Texas
    15 New York Giants Jason Pierre-Paul DE South Florida
    16 Tennessee Titans Derrick Morgan DE Georgia Tech
    17 San Francisco 49ers Mike Iupati G Idaho
    18 Pittsburgh Steelers Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
    19 Atlanta Falcons Sean Weatherspoon OLB Missouri
    20 Houston Texans Kareem Jackson CB Alabama
    21 Cincinnati Bengals Jermaine Gresham TE Oklahoma
    22 Denver Broncos Demaryius Thomas WR Georgia Tech
    23 Green Bay Packers Bryan Bulaga T Iowa
    24 Dallas Cowboys Dez Bryant WR Oklahoma State
    25 Denver Broncos Tim Tebow QB Florida
    26 Arizona Cardinals Dan Williams DT Tennessee
    27 New England Patriots Devin McCourty CB Rutgers
    28 Miami Dolphins Jared Odrick DE Penn State

  192. Rockphin says:

    with the great selection of DE and DT this year, no way I am giving up a chance to get the next Aaron Donald or von Miller though, followed by a starter in the DL also in the 2nd round.

    You can trade back and still get an Aaron Rogers or Dan Marino. We actually could have with Rogers. Ronnie Brown…….

    It starts with good management.

    • Rockphin says:

      Good teams consistently pick at the end of every round and still g t good players.

    • naplesfan2010 says:

      Neither Rodgers nor Marino (nor their 2019 clones) are available in this draft.
      If he were, i would sell the farm and draft him.

      Management cannot manufacture talent; it can only reach for pale copies.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I agree

      The Steelers are a good example of drafting good in the middle or end of the draft

  193. naplesfan2010 says:

    If I recall, we traded out of #12, right?
    I see 9 guys who had better careers than Odrick and Misi that we could’ve taken at #12, without counting Mathews at all. That trade down was a disaster for us.

    Not as bad as going up to get Dion Fuckface, but still.

  194. The Flying Pig says:

    Let’s go Chargers

  195. ocalarob says:

    Look at Oakland, they are qcquiring picks, they have 3 #1s this year, do you think they will use those 3 picks or trade one of them for future consideration?
    they have 2 #1s next year.

    that’s how you build a team.

    • like my mother used to tell me when I was a kid “I don’t care what the other kids are doing. I only care about what you are doing”.

      I can care less about the Raiders. If we build it right it doesn’t matter what they do.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Do you see anyone on our roster that will land us a 1st in 2019 or 2020

      I hope Tannehill has some value based on being a vet QB
      But other than that, I don’t think we have the pieces Oakland had
      And they still have Carr

      • we don’t have anyone but we do have a couple guys in Tannehill and Jones we should trade now and try and get some value for them. just like when you trade in an automobile before the trade value becomes nothing.

        let’s take what we can get, go with TJ and Minkah at S this year and just go from there.

  196. ocalarob says:
    January 13, 2019 at 12:45 pm

    I never said that “the ppl making decisions aren’t doing a good job”,
    you’re drifting again
    when you read… there’s this little thing that is quite crucial,
    it’s called comprehension.
    It’s a critical part in any discussion


    we’re all having a good debate about this. don’t take it to another level.

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