Will Tua Tagovailoa start in 2020? A look at the last 15 years of the 2nd QB taken tells a story

2019 – Daniel Jones RD1 #6 (Kyler Murray #1)

2018 – Sam Darnold RD1 #3 (Baker Mayfield #1)

2017 – Patrick Mahomes RD1 #10 (Mitchell Trubisky #2)

2016 – Carson Wentz RD1 #2 (Jared Goff #1)

2015 – Marcus Mariota RD1 #2 (Jameis Winston #1)

2014 – Johnny Manziel RD1 #22 (Blake Bortles #3)

2013 – Geno Smith RD2 #22 (E.J. Manuel #16)

2012 – Robert Griffin III #2 (Andrew Luck #1)

2011 – Jake Locker RD1 #8 (Cam Newton #1)

2010 – Tim Tebow RD1 #25 (Sam Bradford #1)

2009 – Mark Sanchez RD1 #5 (Matthew Stafford #1)

2008 – Joe Flacco RD1 #18 (Matt Ryan #3)

2007 – Brady Quinn RD1 #22 (Jamarcus Russell #1)

2006 – Matt Leinart RD#1 #10 (Vince Young #3)

2005 – Aaron Rodgers RD1 #24 (Alex Smith #1)

___________________________________________________

So that’s the list of the second QB drafted in each of the last 15 drafts. What’s sometimes more surprising than where they were taken is who was the QB drafted before them and where they were taken. Geno Smith as the second QB taken all the way at pick #54, and E.J. Manuel was the only 1st RD QB in 2013. Patrick Mahomes at #10 8 picks later than Mitch Trubisky eh? There were only 3 years where QB’s went #1 and #2, 2016, 2015 and 2012. Just so you know, I don’t believe this shows any more scientific evidence, but it’s interesting to look at the past, which sometimes reveals the future. I also understand that 15 years ago, the NFL was a different game than the 2020 version but the interesting thing is how much money these first round players were getting paid. We know it all changed after Sam Bradford was drafted #1 in 2010 and signed the most lucrative rookie contract ever in the NFL, 6 YR/$78M with $50M Guaranteed. Aaron Rodgers who slid to #24 in 2005 signed a 5 YR/$7.65M contract.

Let’s start from 2005 and we’ll work our way back to the present. Aaron Rodgers waited 3 full seasons before his 1st start with Brett Favre as the starter. Matt Leinart started after 5 games behind Kurt Warner and finished 4-7. Brady Quinn didn’t start until season 2 and started only 3 games behind Derek Anderson. Joe Flacco started immediately for a stacked Ravens team and went 11-5. Mark Sanchez started immediately for MTP and the Jets and finished 8-7. Tim Tebow started only 3 games but played a fair amount in 9 games although not necessarily as a passer. Jake Locker sat out his entire rookie season. RG III was damn well going to start after they traded a boatload of 1st RD picks for him and he was brilliant until he got injured. The only 2nd RD QB in this group, Geno Smith, started his entire rookie season but Matt Simms was their other QB (who?). Johnny Manziel started only 2 games and was just awful. Marcus Mariota started 12 games and played well but the Titans were pretty bad and they finished 3-9 in his starts. Carson Wentz started immediately and played well although the Iggles went 7-9. Patrick Mahomes started game 16 and won. He’s the guy I consider most similar with Tua. I’ll explain more later. Sam Darnold started 13 games, sat out the first 3 behind Josh McCown. Some may say this is the closest situation to Tua and Fitzpatrick and they might be right. Finally, Daniel Jones started after 4 games and played pretty well despite his 3-9 record.

Why do I think Tua/Fitzpatrick is most similar to Mahomes/Smith? I see 2 veteran QB’s who both have the respect of their HC. Fitzpatrick said it himself, he’ll help Tua in any way he can but Ryan Fitzpatrick wants to be the starting QB this season. Of course mitigating circumstances will no doubt affect how soon Tua starts and I’m not talking about Tua’s health, I’m talking the health of the nation and the Coronavirus pandemic. Having a virtual offseason is not doing Tua any favors. There are rumblings that teams may be able to start OTA’s in June but I fell that unless every single team and their respective states are able to open, that’s not going to happen. Cali is probably the linchpin because they are the least likely to be willing to open up and if they don’t, I don’t see any teams opening because you can’t have some teams working and others not, that takes away the whole parity theme the NFL is built on.

I’ve made it clear (w/o having any actual medical records for Tua) that I feel it would be best to let Ryan Fitzpatrick run this team and if there’s a point of the season where we’re out of it, and Tua is 100%, then I’m fine with giving him the reins, as long as the O-line isn’t a bunch of matadors. On the other hand, I really can’t imagine that he would start immediately, I think that would blow my mind. I want to see what Tua can do, I’m excited that we have arguably the most talented QB in this draft and the most talented QB we’ve had over the last 21 years since Dan Marino left the building. Still, I can’t help but feel that after that devastating hip injury, time will be Tua’s friend. We have so many new faces on our team and we could conceivably have 4-5 new starters on our O-line. Jackson LT, Flowers LG, Karras C, Hunt RG and Davis RT, that’s 4. Plug Kindley in at RG and Hunt at RT that’s 5. Think they might take some time to jell? I don’t want our new QB subjected to that kind of situation, no sir!

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, let em rip!

GO DOLPHINS!!!

#staythecourse

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1,640 Responses to Will Tua Tagovailoa start in 2020? A look at the last 15 years of the 2nd QB taken tells a story

  1. ocalarob says:

    And now for the good news, covid 19 is spiking again! I doubt there will be a football season

  2. Mike E. says:

    Rob – I think the social injustice just happened to occur at a good time for the Democrats. They will surely take advantage of that, and any other bad things that happen, although I’m still not sure if Biden can get out of his own way.

  3. wyoming85 says:

  4. ocalarob says:

    Mike I’m still confused at how the democrats could have Biden running for office? wont he be impeached by the same issues that was tried to get trump out? in bidens case there is actual proof !

  5. ocalarob says:

    It’s rather funny how in trump’s address to the nation that the right side was cheering when trump was expressing his thoughts on the nation and the left side was completely silent however there were a couple of people on the left side that were applauding trump, obviously not all the left has succomed to lunacy.

  6. ocalarob says:

    Most of the leaders of the democratic party or power hungry and corrupt, be careful what you wish for

  7. ocalarob says:

    Trump win by landslide, the right or too busy to riot and pill vij there out there working, they are silent now but they will let their vote be known in November, it stands to reason as he was elected the last time and you sweat stronger now so the left need to get ready for another 4 years of Mr. Donald trump make America great again thank you

  8. New Age says:

    Mike,

    If you or anyone else with a liberal bend wants to look into these facts and dispute them, then I’m game to have a discussion. You seem to be misinformed and use personal experience as your absolute truth. You can believe what you want in the end but I’m hoping you are willing to look further into your belief system and what has been fed to you for years. I’m posting data below this that you can read. It’s up to you. These are data points that destroy the systemic racism narrative. The “it wouldn’t happen to a white person” narrative. The truly racist narrative that police treat blacks so much worse than whites. It’s completely false.

    Many will say certain things are factual without any evidence beyond personal experience or obviously that’s how it is! I don’t care what communities of color feel. I don’t care if they don’t promote the truth. If their felt truth is completely different than reality. I want to know the FACTS. Here’s my stuff.

  9. wyoming85 says:

    Thank you Pandemic!
    to go Margaritas are the shit!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂

  10. New Age says:

    Mike,

    Not trying to pick on you and you are generally a very open minded person. This info isn’t just for you but the problem isn’t police. It isn’t white people or systemic racism. It’s black culture. I saw you post that if a white person was in Floyd’s situation, this would have never happened. I find that to be misinformed so I’m throwing down my argument with data.

    • New Age says:

      If I can convince you, then maybe I can convince others. We NEED police. This garbage going on in Minneapolis and Seattle is bad for everyone. Get rid of bad cops, remove pension plans for everyone (I hate unions), but keep the police and give them MORE rights than less. The supposed ‘victim’ most of the time is a violent person attacking cops and cops are already scared of being fired for defending themselves. That’s why the have each other’s back culture is so rampant. No one but other cops have their backs.

      • Mike E. says:

        You could trot out 1000 articles and 1000 different statistics to me. That doesn’t change what I saw and how I feel about what I saw. It surprises me that you think if he was white and forged a check for $20 that police would have dragged him out of his car and did what they did to him. I don’t care about any other incidents, all I’m talking about is THIS one. He didn’t kill 3 people, he forged a lousy $20 check. That crime doesn’t fit the treatment and ultimately his death due to the brutality he endured.

      • Mike E. says:

        Also, I’m not an advocate for defunding police or dismantling police. I think this was for the most part an isolated incident, but I think there should be some safeguards in place to try and insure that it doesn’t happen again. If you were with 3 other friends and one of them lost his mind and was killing someone you’d intervene. Those 3 cops should have done something, and it was either fear of retaliation if they did by the commanding officer or they were just as racist as he was. I don’t have the exact answer as to how to prevent it but I did mention that anonymous peer reviews by other officers that feel that one of their fellow officers are rotten

      • New Age says:

        Mike, there was no “what they did to him”. It was one cop and he resisted arrest for over 3 minutes is a huge reason Chauvin got the chance to murder him. You watched the whole incident from the original complaint all the way through to the end, right? You did see that he was resistant not only in the car but while they tried to get him in then?

        Do you know I was once in jail for 14 weeks? That I fled police for 10 miles and finally stopped because I knew they used stop sticks in my area and I was afraid I’d die? That one of the arresting officers mentioned he wanted to put a bullet in my head during the chase but the sergeant said “no, don’t”. That the cops stomped around my head after I IMMEDIATELY fell to the ground with my arms behind my back when I pulled over? That I never resisted arrest outside of the fleeing? Maybe bad cops. Maybe cops that were frustrated I put others at risk. Maybe cops that just made a mistake. But it was cops doing this to a WHITE GUY.

        I was on the local cop’s shit list for 4 years until they saw I was on the right road to success and they left me alone. Do I blame all the cops or the system for my failures? Did it take years for me to not look in fear when I heard sirens? Do I have permanent hatred for these other human beings? No, I don’t. It probably saved my life.

        There are bad cops and we need ways to remove them. 100% true. We need to get rid of unions that pay bad cops for bad deeds. 100% true. We don’t need to completely upend the system because one multi-felon met a murderer. We prosecute that one bad cop, find some better avenues to prevent future, and quit making excuses for laws that give too much slack to felons. Quit making excuses for communities that allow this to happen. Quit making excuses for people because of their melanin levels. Making excuses and glorifying a felon who once put a gun to a pregnant woman’s belly and threatened her death if she didn’t give him some money.

  11. Tim Knight says:

    I’ve taken some time to listen to people of color in recent weeks both on TV, radio, family and friends. It’s not just about police brutality, it’s also about harassment on a daily basis from police and racism from citizens that they deal with. We as a country have not done a good enough job dealing with this issue. Because those of us who are white don’t deal with this kind of crap like people of color do, we don’t spend much time thinking about it.

    Think about how you’d feel if you had to go through that on a daily basis. That’s what made me feel guilty as a white person. We don’t speak up for our fellow citizens enough. This was the last straw for many of us and unfortunately people had to die, not just George Floyd but also Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery who was killed by racist assholes who took the law into their own hands. It has to stop!!!!

    • ElephantRider says:

      It’s not just police reform. It’s the entire criminal justice system that preys on the poor. Cops are hunters. They hunt for the prisons. Illegal stop and searches just trying to make arrests. Prisons need full occupancy so they can sell more prisons. Follow the money and look at the private prison industry and their money. Its atrocious. Lobbying to keep dumb laws and to create new ones.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Unfortunately Tim

      It won’t go away when people keep make excuses for it

      • Tim Knight says:

        Oh I know. Unfortunately I think we’re too far gone. I’ve been discussing exactly that on FB recently. People can’t take one incident or situation for what it is. They have to say well what about that? It’s all rooted in their politics.

        People having to say not all cops are bad is a big Duh!!!
        People having to say not all white people are racist is a big Duh!!!
        People having to say not all black people are criminals is a big Duh!!!

        It’s fucking absurd.

  12. wyoming85 says:

    So does anyone have a solution yet?-

    Because unless you trample someones civil liberties!

    I don’t see one!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Yes
      I’m glad you asked.

      More conservative legislation focuses on two things

      – Ensuring more transparency about police use of force and disciplinary records
      – Making it easier to sue or prosecute officers who commit abuses

      Oversight from the federal government can take action if these aren’t being applied locally

      I think that can make a significant difference by itself
      As well as specific things like banning chokeholds

      More aggressive legislation does a lot more

      – we all heard about defund which is probably the most extreme

      – you can generally limit police spending, some of their budgets are out of control

      – demilitarize police

      – invest in training centered around de-escalation

      – local oversight like community boards that can penalize law enforcement

      – end the war on drugs*

      – Establishing a duty by officers to intervene if one of their colleagues is using excessive force

      – taking away some of the subjects police unions bargain for in collective bargaining

      There’s probably a lot more

      There’s a ton that can be done of people want to get serious about it. You have to balance these things with the safety of the police and the safety of the public (something that lead to higher crime rates wouldn’t make us safer)

      *the war on drugs is a complicated reason that nots necessarily a direct cause but

      • The Flying Pig says:

        In case you are wondering about collective bargaining and why police unions matter

        https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-problem-with-police-unions-11591830984

        Generally most unions are bargaining for wages and healthcare but police unions have expanded that process so that it cuts into whether they are held accountable. The unions are heavy handed when it comes to disciplinary actions

        I personally don’t want to eliminate the police unions (I support organized labor) but you have to take control of overarching by police unions

  13. pheloniusphish says:

    I don’t think law enforcement is in cahoots with the private prison industry. Especially at the street level.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I don’t think they follow direct orders

      But I think the private prison industry spends a lot of $ on lobbying and have an interest in keeping prisons full

      I like capitalism and don’t like socialism, but some things should not be for profit

      • pheloniusphish says:

        I don’t disagree that prisons are an inherently governmental function or that the private prison industry lobbies hard. Just doubt cops have anything to do with it.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Yeah but cops end up having to enforce the law that are lobbied for

        I’m not a tin foil hat guy
        I don’t think it’s organized

        But I think it’s the source of behavior in many ways

  14. pheloniusphish says:

    Piggy – When you say end the war on drugs, what do you have in mind? Are you talking legalizing everything?

    • The Flying Pig says:

      No

      Although I want to legalize marijuana on both state and fed level

      But that’s unrelated to this point

      It’s more like pending less time/money on policing

      Less uniformed police patrolling urban areas
      Less undercover operations

      Less searching for crime in general, particularly the crime of drug usage and possession

      That’s part of it

      The other part of it as that the war and drugs has really taken a toll in 4th amendment rights

      When I took criminal law most of the semester was spent on search and seizure and a proper search

      The 4th amendment requires probable cause. And without it, evidence uncovered doesn’t come into evidence at trial and then there is no prosecution

      Why does the war on drugs affect this – well almost every case about establishing probable cause was about cocaine in a bag, or married Juana in the glove compartment etc

      That’s the evidence. The police need to find the hidden evidence to prosecute a case. And to do a proper search they need probable cause – and probable cause can be established by observing a crime

      (Cont in reply)

      • The Flying Pig says:

        If some one has marijuana in a book bag

        And the book bag is in the front seat of car
        Car gets pulled over

        Technically police can’t search book ack bc of the 4th amendment

        But if the book bag is unzipped and the police can see a ziplock bag – boom there’s probable cause

        And that’s what happens with drugs, people keep stuff in glove compartment, in bags, in pockets in whatever

        And police know that bc everyone does

        So if they stop a person long enough, the probable cause might present itself

        So what does that do to the everyday interaction between police

        It means stop get longer and more intrusive
        It creates tension

        It means police always have to keep looking for something that may not exist. It’s a burden on the police

        It’s not really the design of our constitution that American citizens have to endure extended stops by the police without a crime. But the demand for probably cause before a search requires it

        And the caselaw read on the subject – all form the 80s. The war on drugs killed the 4th amendment

        It’s a convoluted answer and it’s not intertwined with legalization but instead privacy, which is inherent in our constitutional rights

  15. wyoming85 says:

    Pig (even after the insult the other day)
    I can agree with that!
    Except the drug thing!

    I would say to take all the drug addicts and let then use up all the confiscated drugs to OD. therefore taking them out of the equation of end user!

    I would add that double the fines and prison terms for all offenses!

    Restore the death penalty to all first degree murder convictions!

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Well you don’t have to agree with all of them
      But a lot of different things are on the table
      Just some of them will make a difference

      In terms of increasing punishment, the struggle with increasing prison time, is that the space isn’t available

      So if you decriminalize things like drug possession, it makes it easier to get
      tougher on violent crimes

      Generally speaking, I think there is a trade off of what we can do when we emphasize so much policing and punishment on drugs

  16. bailbondmike says:

    “it’s also about harassment on a daily basis from police”
    ———————————————————————————-
    Tim, This is an issue, racial profiling and/or the appearance of. It does happen a lot. How does this get fixed? Will it ever get fixed? It is a coincidence you just mentioned this cause I just did a bond on a warrant for someone turning themselves in. The deputy who met me and the defendant at the jail to serve the warrant was black. Deputy Glaze is a cool dude and looks identical to the Nutty Professor. LOL We had to wait awhile and got in conversation about all that is going on after I asked him how the public is handling this locally. There are absolutely no issues here. Just a few small peaceful protests.
    He said in his 18 years, he has never seen a cop be that derelict when apprehending someone after you have the cuffs on. Says the adrenalin that hits you when someone is resisting arrest and what you see on some video’s looks excessive but is necessary to gain control of the situation. That rush usually goes away within 30-60 seconds after you have the suspect detained and everyone relaxes. Said what that cop did was on purpose, sure he didn’t mean to kill him but it was way out of bounds and beyond excessive. He hopes that officer gets what he deserves. He then said he was still up in the air on whether he feels it was racial or not without knowing the cops history of using excessive force. Is he like that with everyone he arrests or is it just blacks. Said we will find out when they get further into the trial. He feels sorry for the 2 rookie cops.
    When talking about racial profiling, he said he does it also. He said, look, around here, if I am behind a black man and I run his tags that come up registered to a woman I am pulling him over. He said 40% of the time they don’t have a license or is driving on a suspended license and that is the reason they are driving someone else’s car cause they don’t have one.. He said another 1 out of 12 will have an active warrant or have something illegal in the car. He said, is it profiling? Yes. Am I going to keep doing it? Yes. Says these are mostly minor offenses. The real criminals are crafty. You have to use every means at your disposal to eventually catch them. Sometimes you get lucky when they are careless.
    He did say there does need to be reform but said not reform in the way most good officers and deputies do their job but reform in the procedures for reporting bad cops especially a senior.
    I asked him what about the cities with no cops. He said those cites would become apocalyptic.
    As he was walking out, he turned with a smile and said, hey, just so you know, if I see a suspicious white dude driving an old beater I find an excuse to pull him over also and the success rate is about the same.

  17. pheloniusphish says:

    Pigs – so with less patrolling and policing, what happens to crime in your mind? What do the police do if not police.?

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Call 911 and have them arrive

      You aren’t getting rid of 911 or field offices where police are stationed
      In fact you may even be able to use the resources to have more stations/offices for police so that they are accessible

      Of course all this stuff can be a matter of degree
      Maybe you don’t eliminate it, you just decrease the presence by 50% or some arbitrary number

      When police are on patrols do they catch a murderer before the murder?
      No, not generally, they stop guys with broken tail lights

      Do police and security presence prevent people from commuting a crime? Probably yes.

      So it’s a balancing act at some level

      The logic is that the level of patrolling we do now doesn’t prevent crime
      Is it true?
      I actually don’t fucking know…lol
      Its a theory of how things can be done differently
      I don’t know if it works, and if it increases crime, you probably have to abandon it

      But it’s something to work with and figure out
      I don’t think what we are doing now is working for everyone

    • bailbondmike says:

      They wait until someone calls and says hey, there’s this pig driving 100 mph down I-95 with a bag of weed heading to some kind of fest in Miami.

  18. ElephantRider says:

    Drugs are a health issue, not a criminal one.

    • pheloniusphish says:

      I disagree ER. At least in part. Drugs are a choice. A bad one. And addiction leads to crime. Theft, assaults, robbery…whatever it takes to feed the addiction.

  19. bailbondmike says:

    Well, this guy got pulled over today during a routine traffic stop and turned out he had a warrant for this:
    CARTER, PATRICK ANTWON (B/ MALE )
    Status: In Jail
    Booking No: ECC20JBN006208 MniNo: ECC17MNI006085
    Booking Date: 06/13/2020 09:20 AM
    Age On Booking Date: 35
    Bond Amount: NO BOND
    CELL Assigned:
    Facility: ECSO , Dorm: O4 , Pod: O4 , Cell No: RED Visitation Schedule
    Address Given: 3411 W YOUNGE ST PENSACOLA, FL 32505
    CHARGES
    STATUTE COURT CASE NUMBER CHARGE DEGREE LEVEL BOND
    [-] 800.04.5b PPD20OFF004930 (PENSACOLA POLICE DEPARTMENT) LEWD LASCV BEHAVIOR L F NO BOND
    MOLEST VICT LESS 12 YOA OFFENDER 18 YOA OR OLDER
    [+] 827.03.2c PPD20OFF004930 (PENSACOLA POLICE DEPARTMENT) CRUELTY TOWARDS
    CHILD NO BOND
    He called me this morning wanting me to bond him tomorrow after he sees the judge and gets a bond. Not going to do it.

    No one knew to call 911 on him.

  20. wyoming85 says:

  21. bailbondmike says:

    I bonded this obnoxious bitch out of jail this morning for DUI With Property Damage and Leaving the Scene of an Accident. The police report said the officer observed her staggering down the side walk then falling down in the parking lot then got up and got in her car, hit another parked vehicle pulling out before driving off. He pulled her over after trailing her and observing her swerving for 3 blocks. I am sure others leaving the club saw this but no one called 911. She was from Milton, FL which is about 25-30 minute drive (20 min on interstate) from Pensacola. She could have gotten away with it or got in a bad wreck killing herself or someone else had that cop not been patrolling.

  22. Tim Knight says:

    This country was built on bigotry and discrimination of all kinds from the beginning. Look into the real gangs of New York from the 1800’s until now. There’s more to it than the color of one’s skin. It was also Old World European conflicts due to cultures, borders and religions. Not individual freedom. So the country started off in conflict as we know, then people of color from foreign lands accelerated that bigotry and discrimination.

    The information age has brought this issue to the forefront. That’s the reality. Nobody gets away with the violation of one’s rights anymore. Who disagrees with this?

    • pheloniusphish says:

      I wouldn’t say the country was built on it. It existed, but America was built on opportunity.

      • Tim Knight says:

        Exactly on opportunity! Discrimination was alway part of it though. There were no Golden Years, only for some just like today. It’s a fallacy.

        Yes many minorities have succeeded, the USA allows that. It doesn’t mean there are not a whole lot of obstacles laid down before them.

        Let’s be honest, the playing field is not fair for all sorts of reasons.

  23. pheloniusphish says:

    If you have to call 911 the crime is already going down. So you end up with victims or people protecting themselves. Going to be way more violent because the average citizen won’t have much training if any. Then there is the question of whether someone will be charged if they use deadly force to defend themselves and their property. If the government isn’t going to provide law enforcement then they can’t very well complain when they end up with dead criminals all over the place.

    • bailbondmike says:

      I agree. I have 3 very good barking burglar alarms who will buy me plenty of time to choose from several weapons of choice.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      It Varies from state to state but
      But in most states you can use deadly force in self defense

      Patrolling the neighborhood doesn’t necessarily mean the police will get to the scene of the crime faster – they might be at the scene faster from a station

  24. steveccnv says:

    Who ever heard of trying to solve a problem by having one side make all the concessions?

    Our police reform is a two way street, just like any other issue. It needs to be solved like it.

  25. steveccnv says:

    I think there’s a big misconception, when people talk about drug crimes, dealing and drug use are totally different.

  26. The Flying Pig says:

    BBMike
    You are still going to have traffic police and traffic stops. You are still going to have detectives to find criminals with warrants to and whatever resources you devote to that. None of that changes.

    You just treat urban areas like suburban and rural areas
    Instead of having police at wathcing everything everyone does every day

    There are plenty of communities in America where police aren’t persistently watching over citizens – like nearly every suburban community in America, and they aren’t riddled with pedophiles or dui deaths

    The police presence in urban communities is much greater than many other portions of the country
    And that’s one of the huge difference makers is how people are treated
    Citizens outside of urban areas with a heavy police presence are far less likely to be stopped or charged with petty crimes o things like drug possession

  27. Tim Knight says:

    At the end of the day it’s still human behavior.

    • steveccnv says:

      This is a comedy skit, but most of what he said to do should be obvious. As BBM mentioned, the cops are going to profile white and black, so if people would just be smart most of this shit wouldn’t happen. Do the cops need some reform? Of course, but this is what you can do yourself to reduce getting put in a bad position.

      But the main problem is a culture issue, that’s what needs to change, before anything really changes.

  28. bailbondmike says:

    Cav, sorry about that. I was in a hurry, lol.

  29. bailbondmike says:

    Some people don’t want to hear this but how many of these incidents happen when the suspect is resisting arrest or resisting being detained, many times resisting with violence? I bet it is around 95%. If people didn’t resist so forcefully, we may not even be having this discussion.

    • steveccnv says:

      Agree, and that’s why you treat the police with respect. How FN stupid do you have to be to resist and disrespect someone that has a gun and some right to use it? This level of danger people put themselves in is unmatched.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I’m guessing about 95% of how it’s reported is resisting arrest
      It based upon a lot of videos I’ve seen – that % doesn’t hold up

      If some one resists arrest, police have the ability to use force even deadly force when necessary

      But we wouldn’t be haven’t this discussion if police weren’t caught so many times exceeding what most of us would perceive as necessary force

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Also
        There is nothing I personally don’t want to hear and I appreciate your input – especially bc you are a bondsman and can add some perspective

        I just will disagree from time to time and I will let people know it, bc that is my style

  30. bailbondmike says:

    Why didn’t we hear about this or why was there no outrage? The jackass was physically resisting but this would have never happened had he not resisted.
    March 2, 2020 in Chicago:

    https://newsone.com/3906412/black-cop-shoots-unarmed-white-man-viral-video/

  31. Mike E. says:

    New Age – Just watched the video again of George Floyd because I honestly didn’t remember well. His “resistance” as you called it was similar to that of a 5 year old kid whose parent told him to go to his room. He basically laid down and said I can’t go in the car, I’m claustrophobic. Didn’t push, take a swing or show any violence whatsoever. I always thought you were a straight up dude but man, I don’t see what you could possibly glean out of this that Floyd should have been treated like he did and eventually killed. I’m going to say it again, I think all those guys handled this shitty and bringing in Chauvin who is an instigator was probably the worst move of all. Nothing I saw doesn’t reek to me of poor treatment of a disposable black man. Sorry bud. If you’ve paid attention to the things I say here, I have no liberal bend as you said yesterday. Maybe I just have a human one.

    • steveccnv says:

      I don’t know what New Age is referring to, but be careful what video you watch. Some media outlets have been known to omit footage that doesn’t fit their narrative.

      • Mike E. says:

        Careful? Oooh, what might happen? Steve – If you got some video that shows what you think it should show, put it up, I’ll watch it. 🙂

      • steveccnv says:

        Be careful you might come across as an ass by believing something that has been omitted 🤔

        The video I watched doesn’t show much resistance other than Floyd going down, but was obviously moving ahead to further action.

    • steveccnv says:

      I just watched it again, Floyd starts by falling down and resists getting in the police vehicle, claiming to be claustrophobic, yet he was just sitting in his vehicle. I think he was resisting enough that they were using multiple officers. After the lying and resisting he put himself in a bad position.

      Did Chauvin disregarded I can’t breath, because he may have thought it was another lie?

      Of course none of this gives Chauvin a reason to do what he did, it was in regards to the bad position Floyd put himself in.

      • Mike E. says:

        So was there a part where Floyd took a swing? Pushed an officer down? Went into a rage and and looked like a dangerous animal? Steve – I just hope the same thing doesn’t happen to any of you guys here that think there’s nothing wrong with what happened. I’m going to end it with that. I would hate to see someone I cared about die like that

      • ocalarob says:

        Even if you did take a swing he didn’t deserve to die! theres no justification for what the cops did. put them away!

      • bailbondmike says:

        Like Deputy Glaze (Nutty Professor) said to me yesterday. You use the force necessary, though violent in nature to detain the suspect. Once the suspect is detained, you collect yourself, back off and relax. Chauvin did not back off. He relaxed but with his knee still on him for way, way to long. Chauvin will get what’s coming to him. Many years of getting butt fucked.

      • steveccnv says:

        Mike, take your blinders off and read what I wrote. To say, i said, there’s nothing wrong with what the cops did is CNNish. I’ve said over and over today I’m referring to what Floyd did to put himself in a bad position. DO NOT LIE TO POLICE, DO NOT RESIST.

        I’ve heard there’s this place in NJ where you can get new reading glasses, a softball pitcher there can set you up😉

      • ocalarob says:

        Steve most people high on drugs are not too smart or coherent, so you are resuming at this person is reasonable and why the hell should he be resisting? Because he is out of his mind on drugs you have to take that into consideration if the guy sits down you don’t choke them to death

  32. ocalarob says:

    What’s very stupid about this whole ordeal is because of a couple of bad cops all cops having stereotyped as bad.

  33. ocalarob says:

    Unfortunately there are bad cops out there, there are also bad people out there, but there are good cops and good people, so stereotyping doesn’t work. you have to educate and take it case by case. anarchy doesnt work either.

  34. TryPod says:

    I think you said it right, Wyoming.. they just want to see their position coming out of your mouth.

  35. ocalarob says:

    LOL at piggies probable cause? All the cop needs to do is calling a dog, if the dog reacts there’s are probable cause. it doesnt require searching for pc.

    • ocalarob says:

      Normally the cop last permission to search the car, if that permission is not granted that’s when the cop calls in the dog

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Wtf

      Your statement isn’t even responsive to what I said

      You admitted – probable cause needs to be established

      You are just using a dog to get there

      probable cause is necessary for a dog search too
      Dog searches are a search under the 4th

      What are dogs, some kind of immunity to the constitution? 😂😂😂

      Read this Supreme Court case on the subject

      https://caselaw.findlaw.com/mn-court-of-appeals/1873106.html

      Courts determine whether probable caused existed during the prosecution of trials when they determine whether evidence comes in or not

      But the existence of a dog doesn’t change that probable cause has to be established

      Nothing you said changes what I said
      The use of a dog can easily be overstepping by the police under the 4th
      Sometimes it is and sometimes it’s not

      But that doesn’t address anything about how the war on drugs has affected police Interactions with American citizens
      In fact, it supports what I said

      It feels like you didn’t even scratch the surface of understanding my point with this response

  36. wyoming85 says:

    Orob while I agree with most of your comments.

    The “I was high” argument shouldn’t be used to defend anyone from anything!

  37. The Flying Pig says:

    calarob says:
    June 14, 2020 at 10:28 am (Edit)
    What’s very stupid about this whole ordeal is because of a couple of bad cops all cops having stereotyped as bad.

    ******
    It’s actually not a few bad apples
    It’s bad policy and procedure and an entire political agenda devoted to ignoring that

    • wyoming85 says:

      You know you have a Jeckel and Hyde argument.

      You get me thinking about how to continue keeping drugs off the streets while not stepping over the 4th Amendment.

      Then you view all conservatives as trying to cover up for bad cops?

      Then I hit your MUTE button and your good argument is lost!

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Well you are just going to have to deal with the fact that I’m a real person, with real opinions and most of the time, you don’t agree or disagree with everyone a real person says….lol.

        If you aren’t looking at the practices and policies that lead to these events, you aren’t on the same page as me. So those are the points I try to express

        Last couple of days a few of you have been insulted or offended at the things I said. Let me make this clear – I’m not going to walk on egg shells to make my points

        It’s just too important to worry about who is upset and who’s not. All of our rights are at stake.

        When the president of the US tweets that a 75 year old peaceful protestor was an antifa agitator…who fell harder than he was pushed…literately defying the laws of physics…and you guys accept that as okay behavior bc you like other things about him – I’m not going to be delicate about how I approach it

        Sometimes the best way to keep perspective is to call out the absurd for being absurd

        How can people being realistic say “a couple of bad apples” when everyone around him with authority also stood and watched? It’s not a couple of bad apples guys….it’s just not.

        Try to solve problems not just win arguments

        So If necessary, be insulted
        And please, insult me back – as long as you are prepared to get it right back, everyone will get over it

        But people need perspective now, and anyway you get there, is worth it in the long run

  38. Mike E. says:

    Steve – Is it possible that you’re wearing the blinders and not me? FWIW, I wore my reading glasses while watching the video.

    I’m also not even coming close to condemning ALL cops, just the 4 assholes that day with George Floyd. One racist asshole in Chauvin and 3 weak other assholes who didn’t stand up to the guy who was killing another human being. I don’t believe in defunding or dismantling the police. I’m not liberal and I’m not a snowflake. Just because I’m not following the company line here doesn’t mean I don’t support the company. I still maintain that Trump fucked this whole thing by not being sympathetic to what occurred and when the protests started he was only adversarial to their cause and responded with threats against them instead of providing solutions. We’ll see how much it ends up hurting him in November.

  39. Randy says:

    There’s a Mute Button on this page?!?!? Now ya tell me. I’d have worn out that sumbitch out by now.

  40. Randy says:

    Wyoming,
    Just messin’. Remembering the days of me and Jahn discussing the intricacies of OL play and wishing. Lol

  41. Mike E. says:

    Just so you know, this applies to both sides . . .

  42. bailbondmike says:

    “I’m guessing about 95% of how it’s reported is resisting arrest”
    ——————————————————————-
    Piggy, good point on “how it’s reported”. You being an attorney know this. I have witnessed deputies and/or the city police taking 1-3 hours sometimes to write up a 3 paragraph arrest report. Basically, getting their ducks in a row, confiding with other officers sometimes and sprinkling a little doctoring on top to either justify their arrest, make something stick, or cover their ass.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Ulimately I agree with your Earlier point though and I don’t think you are wrong

      We don’t want to change the rules so much that the police are putting themselves constantly at risk bc they can’t do anything

      Obviously people really do resist or run from police and sometimes being too passive is going to put the police in danger

      But I do think it’s possible to approach Changes and balance the risk we are asking police to take as well

      But the other side of that is that coin is that “resisting” has become
      an excuse when police go to far – resisting can’t be a magic word that then police say to avoid any scrutiny

  43. wyoming85 says:

    Piggy I thought we were supposed to have civil conversations?

    But don’t sweat it! It’s no skin off my nuts either way!!!!!

    Before i go into insulting someone I’ll shut my computer off!

  44. ocalarob says:

    What they do is walk the dog around the car, if the dog alerts that gives them probable cause to search your vehicle.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I know that’s what they do – that’s the point

      There’s literally tens of thousands of cases you can read about where a dog isn’t present
      A drug sniffing dog is a small sampling of what occurs

      There’s cases where the stopping officer calls a unit with a dog – which takes time for that other unit to arrive and that’s just going to extend the stop time

      But the existence of a dog for drug sniffing is a great example of the chipping away of the 4th amendment. The mere existence of a drug sniffing dog is actually evidence that our concept or personal privacy and the 4th amendment has changed bc of the war on drugs

      Our forefathers intended a great deal of personal privacy without interference

      The language of the 4th says

      “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

      The existence of a drug sniffing dog is a product of the war on drugs – you are proving my point.

      If the dog barks, police might conduct a search

      And that’s chipping away at the intent of the 4th amendment

      The law has shifted to permit an increased likelihood of searches by using drug sniffing drugs – far beyond what our forefather intended

      Police work has become more intrusive today than it ever has been
      Because the war on drugs has made police be more intrusive
      And drug sniffing dogs are the perfect example of that

      • ocalarob says:

        Scuse me Mr. pig, in a reasonable situation I am presuming that they already had probable cause to pull the man over!

      • ocalarob says:

        Maybe his car was swerving, and when they pulled him over he was not walking right, at that point they may suspect that there is drugs in the car, so then they call in the dog if the dog alerts they searched the vehicle unless he gives them consent.

      • ocalarob says:

        What you are doing is generalizing the situation in specifying the cops actions? Everything and every situation is different.

  45. ocalarob says:

    I doubt any cop wants to detain someone for a length of time just to seek probable cause, there are easier ways to do it.

    • bailbondmike says:

      I don’t know Rob, some of these guys I know of (not personally) on a slow day…..well, ya just never know.

      • ocalarob says:

        Where I come from they wanna dispose of the situation as quickly as possible, if they suspect you have having drugs they will walk the dog around the vehicle if the dog alerts they will search your car, that gives them probable calls. If they have nothing on you they will let you go, if they do they will arrest you. End of story. most of the time they just want a donut.

  46. bailbondmike says:

    Piggy, the biggest BULLSHIT charge I see/bond people out for is Resisting Officer Without Violence (ROWOV). It is usually tacked on with another charge. Could range anywhere from not identifying themselves/providing ID when the officer asks, to being just an ass to the officer or simply jerking away when the office is trying to cuff them. The majority of disposition’s on this charge more than any other charge is “No Pros”. Some cases that charge is dropped as part of a plea deal. We have a couple of really good judges who don’t allow that and if they see no probable cause they drop the ROWOV charge at the arraignment so the state can’t use it as leverage.
    In a very close 2nd place, the charge that gets ” No Pros” the second most (believe it or not) is Domestic Battery. Reason being is the victims go to the state attorney’s office and file affidavit’s requesting to drop the charge. For cases where there is little to no photo evidence or a 3rd party was the one who called 911 the % for No Pros is close to 100.

    I am just referring to my area here on the FL panhandle.

  47. Mike E. says:

    I’m going to try and get another article up here and maybe we can just let all the shit that went down here go, and leave it off the next one. I’ll do my best not to bring any of this stuff up.

  48. ocalarob says:

    Wyoming, the police should ascertain that this guy is high and have reasonable expectations that he may not comply, that said what is the severity of his noncompliance? Is he pulling a gun if so you have to protect yourself, is he just sitting down refusing to get into a car, it’s not reasonable to kill this man for that. iwas hi is notan oxcuse for the victim its for thecop toassess reasonable threat. do you think what floyd did warranted what happened?

    • wyoming85 says:

      I was just talking about the perpetrator!
      Not the officers. They should definitively assess whether the person is high or not!

      • ocalarob says:

        I got this new device as to where I talk into it so sometimes my meaning comes out skud, but I’m not sure what I said above

  49. ocalarob says:

    By the way piggy how do you like my new hat, nobody is even commented on it, make America great again

  50. ocalarob says:

    Piggy trying to stand on some high moral ground is great except if you’re the victim

    • The Flying Pig says:

      The victim of drug possession?

      Who are the victims of drug possession, the ziplock bags they keep the drugs in?

      The person who has been arrested for possession is the victim in most cases

  51. wyoming85 says:

  52. The Flying Pig says:

    Reply
    ocalarob says:
    June 14, 2020 at 1:41 pm (Edit)
    Scuse me Mr. pig, in a reasonable situation I am presuming that they already had probable cause to pull the man over!
    ocalarob says:
    June 14, 2020 at 1:42 pm (Edit)
    Maybe his car was swerving, and when they pulled him over he was not walking right, at that point they may suspect that there is drugs in the car, so then they call in the dog if the dog alerts they searched the vehicle unless he gives them consent.
    ocalarob says:
    June 14, 2020 at 1:43 pm (Edit)
    What you are doing is generalizing the situation in specifying the cops actions? Everything and every situation is different.

    *******

    I don’t understand what you aren’t getting about this

    Maybe it’s a perfectly legal stop
    Maybe it’s not – and then they search for drugs anyway

    Individual examples when it dididnt happen, don’t decrease when a search was conducted to find drugs And that flows from the war on drugs

    The war on drugs has caused police work to change substantially
    It’s not viable to argue that it hasn’t

    It doesn’t seem like you are arguing it hasn’t
    You are arguing that’s it’s okay from what I gather or sometimes stops have nothing to do with drugs (which is irrelevant)

    I said earlier, when WY asked does anyone have solutions, many of the things that people are discussing (when they aren’t busy Fighting about whether it exists or not)

    And my point was end the war on drugs is one of the things that might make a substantial difference

    Bc the war on drugs Has changed the way we interpret the 4th amendment over the last few decades

    We as a country have changed the way we view the police interaction with its citizens
    It was explicitly intended to be very limited when we drafted the constitution

    If we cut into the way we have bc we think the war on drugs permits it, it’s rewriting the constitution

    You might think that’s okay
    And maybe it is
    But it’s a different conversation

    But let’s not pretend that police being given more latitude in what they do when policing drug crimes isn’t a substantial change that flows from the war on drugs

    And that the change doesn’t affect the ways citizens interact with police

    It certainly does
    And that doesn’t create tension that wouldn’t exist without that change – it obviously creates tension between police and a community

    So ending the war on drugs is going to have an effect

    If I tell you that one side of the street is yellow
    And you point to the other side of the street and say it’s green
    The side of the street I pointed to is still yellow
    You didn’t hurt my argument by pointing to another set of facts

    So what – there are specific examples of a side of the street not being yellow – so what?

    It means nothing

    The way we police communities has changed bc of the war on drugs
    It’s changed from our original vision of a free country
    You are helping me elaborate and prove that with the drug sniffing dog example

    Everything you said is correct and makes what i said even more true

    • ocalarob says:

      I don’t believe that walking a dog around a car is against your 4th amendment rights. If that dog alerts then the police should have enough probable cause to search your car. the road is not green or yellow , its a mixture.

      • The Flying Pig says:

        Oh yeah…the dog just happened to walk around a car while some one was just stopping to sniff the flowers…

        Is that what we are going with now?

        Or did the police stop some one (a seizure) for the dog to sniff around the car before conducting the search.

  53. ocalarob says:

    Piggy drugs are problem, do you think just the little baggie of drugs is the problem? Where did that little baggy come from a bigger baggy? And a bigger bigger baggy? Who is at the top of that food chain? What kind of violence do those people have on our community? illegle drugs in any form are bad and cost lives

    • The Flying Pig says:

      This is a much different argument than I ever raised

      I take it that means you know I was right…lol

      • ocalarob says:

        The Flying Pig says:
        June 14, 2020 at 1:57 pm
        The victim of drug possession?

        Who are the victims of drug possession, the ziplock bags they keep the drugs in?

        The person who has been arrested for possession is the victim in most cases

        Reply

        No actually. I think your statement above is wrong.

        Hello…

      • ocalarob says:

        Its tough to hold a conversation when you keep drifting away from your actual posts.
        The victims of drugs are the little kids shot in drivebys among others

      • The Flying Pig says:

        The kids shot in drivebys are not victims of drug possession. You don’t get shot by a bag of weed.

        I would actually like to get shot by a bag of weed

      • ocalarob says:

        Youre off the wall. Youre floating. You must have some good shit

      • ocalarob says:

        You get shot being an innocent bystander while some moron shoots at someone who stole his weed.

  54. bailbondmike says:

    One thing I don’t get or haven’t caught on to is the signal these drug dogs give. I have watched a ton of Live PD before they fucking canceled it. I would that dog go around the car and just see a happy dog excited that he is going to get a treat. Just walking around the vehicle wagging his tail. Then the officer tells the suspect that the dog alerted and they are going to search the vehicle. I have yet to figure that out. LOL

  55. ocalarob says:

    I dont understand the left?

    You have 2 choices as president.

    Who do you want? A or B?

  56. wyoming85 says:

    That brings up a good point Rob

    Are the great people of the “Seattle autonomous zone” gonna be allowed to vote in the USA elections?

  57. wyoming85 says:

    I’ve been calling around getting support and putting together a supply chain with industrial experience!

    I think I’m gonna make a great Feudal Lord!!!!!! 🙂

  58. stangerx says:

    I miss the old days. Aren’t we supposed to be talking about rookie camp right now? And think we are darn close to OTAs….least when they happened.

    • son of a son of a shula says:

      OTA’s would be just about over by now , they’d be getting ready to take a few weeks or even a month off before training camp starts.

      • stangerx says:

        And every time in rookie camp there is a name or two that we start fixating on. Last year one was Preston Williams. Wonder who missed out this year.

      • son of a son of a shula says:

        Very true, and there are so many promising not only rookies but 2nd and 3rd year guys ready to pop. New FA’s especially all the ex-pats, the Dallas CB. I can’t wait!

  59. son of a son of a shula says:

    It would help everyone involved if guys would accept the charges they are being given. Fight in court ( where if Hollywood and so on could really do the most good with better representation in court instead of unwilling or overwhelmed court appointed attorneys).
    As soon as these guys fight or run they just added a felony charge and they most likely we’re getting a misdemeanor charge to start. Once it’s fighting it isn’t race it’s survival.
    Maybe if a guy is getting arrested and feels he has a fair shot in court he may choose to fight there instead of in the street with cops in neighborhoods where people have families.
    * Not talking about Floyd, he was murdered, but the guy in Atlanta. Come on take the cuffs.
    The majority of the cases are like Atlanta however.

    • stangerx says:

      People that get arrested normally aren’t that smart. One time I launched myself into a wall ( got some bleeding going) and then later pissed in my pants not to get a blood AC test. Funny part is that even if was an idiot to start with was the smart move in the end. 🙂

  60. wyoming85 says:

  61. ocalarob says:

    Love him or hate him but you can’t ignore him. Donald Trump’s confidence in what he believes in makes him a perfect leader

  62. ocalarob says:

    Trump is an authentic leader in the way most people define authenticity, he meens what he says and he will say what he means

  63. ocalarob says:

    Cav, what about Biden holding back US money demanding they fire shokin to preserve his sons job?
    that’s exactly why they were impeaching trump!
    yet the dems nominate the guy who did that! wtf?

    oh the hypocrisy!

    what about that guy that got set up by that english spy who was on hillarys payroll?

    that trump had ties to russia when in actuality it was the dems who had the ties.

    the left are corrupt as the day is long, Ray Charles could see that!

    • CavalierKong says:

      You’re spouting a bunch of ‘whatabout’ stuff that has no bearing on this conversation. I know the left is corrupt too. I know Biden isn’t a choirboy. I’m not a Biden supporter. You mistake me. I’m a guy that refuses to eat up anything either side is dishing.

      You go ahead and lap up whatever Fox News and Trump tell you to, so you can then regurgitate tiny little pieces of it into whatever narrative your spewing, meanwhile trash talking ‘left’ this, ‘mainstream media’ that in a wondrous fount of hypocrisy. LOL

      Every time I see one of you guys on here trash talking the other side, it boggles my mind you can’t see how it perpetuates the cycle.

      • ocalarob says:

        I’m spouting the truth, what has the republican party done that is corrupt? All I see is corruption on the left. its not trash when its the truth. how stupid was the lame attempt to impeach? trump will win by a wide margin.

      • CavalierKong says:

        Rob, the fact you only see one side of the issues is exactly the problem.

        If you truly don’t see anything wrong with the ‘conservative right’, the way they operate, and the agenda they push, and instead see only an evil corrupt ‘liberal left’ vs a benevolent right, then this shit will never change because you are half of what perpetuates the problem IMO.

        It’s one thing to agree with one sides policies over the other, but another entirely to not know all the dirty shit they do to stay in power and push their agendas. Hell, they switch each others playbooks out over time as history will tell you.

  64. CavalierKong says:

    Rob, Trump isn’t capable of hurting my feelings anymore than your average 3 year old can hurt them, lol.

    I don’t take anything he says seriously because everything he says is a direct and immediate response to whatever random, juvenile, narcissistic thought or feeling he happens to be experiencing at that moment, completely and utterly devoid of thought, self-reflection, and mature emotional response.

    Donny angry – lashout at source of anger and play the victim, then blame the media and illegal immigrants.

    Donny happy – make statement about it being the greatest and the best ‘whatever’ it is Donny is happy about, then play the victim.

    Donny need poopoo – send twitter comment.

    Donny feeling insecure – blame the media, blame Obama, blame illegal immigrants, then play the victim

    About 90% of what he says falls into these categories. We could cut back on about 50% of the drama coming from the White House if we could just institute mandatory nap time.

    I understand a majority of Trump supporters who approve of the policies while wishing he would just shut up. I get that logic. But the special few that talk about him being a good leader and talk like he is a wellspring of integrity…gotta wonder where those noses have been…

    • ocalarob says:

      If you were in his position I would like to know how you would handle the abuse from the left and the left this news media day in and day out attacking him? Would you fight back?

      • CavalierKong says:

        I would probably start with aplomb, instead of a combination of lying, self-aggrandizement and schoolyard tit for tat insults.

        Be the president and be confident. Understand it comes with the territory. Don’t be so insecure you have to respond to every single jab thrown your way like a 17 Y/O highschool boy. Show some damned emotional intelligence.

  65. Tim Knight says:

    The pendulum swings a click this way or that way and everyone loses their fuckin mind. We have a ruse on our hands.

  66. ocalarob says:

    I get it cab you have no horse in the race, but the fact is 1 of them has to win and I take trump over Biden any day.

    • CavalierKong says:

      Fair enough, we all get a vote. I know a lot of people that feel the same way. Most of my family are voting for Trump again.

      • Mike E. says:

        I don’t feel the same way. I’m pretty disappointed that our choices have come down to this petulant childlike incumbent or the hair sniffing grandpa who may not remember his name by the time his term runs out.

  67. pheloniusphish says:

    Piggy is absolutely correct about dogs and the 4th Amendment. I ran one of the largest K9 programs in the country. You must have probable cause to run the dog.

    BBM – Most common action for the dog when it hits is to sit. That’s how explosives detection dogs are trained. Don’t want them fucking about and pawing an IED. Some drug dogs are trained to paw when they alert.

  68. pheloniusphish says:

    A prickly pig is a Javelina. J(H)ordi Javelina.

  69. ocalarob says:

    Can they train a pig to sniff out drugs?

    • steveccnv says:

      Yes, but there 40 time is too slow and they take up too much space in the back of a police car, and they’d eat all the donuts, so…

  70. ocalarob says:

    If you want to talk about the 4th ammendment i would think the left should look at defrauding the FISA court and illegally survailing an american citizen.

    • ocalarob says:

      Which by the way was funded by the democratic party.
      So why does a certain poster shout out in support of the 4th ammendment when he supports the people who violate it?
      Hmmm?

  71. bailbondmike says:

    This shit is so fucked up. The cops need to be able to do their job and need to be better trained on what to do when an unarmed suspect is physically resisting arrest. If he gets away, don’t shoot them, let the MF go. Issue a warrant for what you were going to arrest them for. Tack on resisting arrest with or without violence, possibly assault and/or battery on an officer, flee/eluding, etc. People need to quit being fucking idiots and thinking it is their right to resist arrest or being detained. Every cop in America needs to wear a body cam. I understand when people are under the influence of something that they can’t help being a dumb ass. Cops need to be better trained in this area, IMO. I bonded this dude (white, not that it should matter) out yesterday morning for Resisting Officer With Violence, a 5K bond. Police had to taser him twice. He didn’t remember anything. He was apprehended at 1:30 am. Ten hours later his bac was still 0.14 when I posted his bond. He didn’t get released until 6pm. So, there are going to be many a-holes like him and cops need serious training and follow on training (required CE’s). If someone is armed with intent to use it, well, it’s their unlucky fucking day. More needs to be done as far as throwing shit at the cops and/or damaging city property. There needs to be very harsh punishment.

    • steveccnv says:

      I would put a harsher punishment on resisting arrest and fleeing, but for resisting arrest I would also make it in degrees. Simple resisting would be resist IV.

      These criminals shouldn’t get a slap on the wrist for these offenses, unless its resist IV.

      We’ve likely all seen a live cop show, and too many of these people act in a way that shouldn’t be tolerated.

    • steveccnv says:

      The trade off for not shooting or using excessive force is a stiff penalty for fleeing, otherwise, if they know it’s only a slap on the wrist all the criminals would try to run, kind of like now. The only thing keeping them all from running now is the cop using excessive force or worse.

  72. ocalarob says:

    Does The Steele dossier ring any bells?

  73. wyoming85 says:

    • steveccnv says:

      When you pay your LT 20M per, he better be a perennial All Pro, and that’s not Tunsil. He’s good, but he’s going to be a cap issue.

      I’ll take the 2 1sts and 2 2nds instead of paying that kind of money for a Tunsil.

      These are the kind of moves the master cheat makes, like Jon Bones Jones’ brother to AZ.

  74. ocalarob says:

    Being in favor of the 4th amendment in supporting the democratic party for president is like be an anti racist and a member of the klu klux klan

  75. ocalarob says:

    Who coined the phrase a pig in a poke? it sure seems to fit

  76. stangerx says:

    Test

  77. stangerx says:

    Phelon — amazing the experts you find on this board. Why does my little 17-pound poodle get police dogs into a frenzy? And yeah she’s neutered. I know she thinks she’s 200 LBs, with attitude but you’d think those German Shepards would just laugh at her. Or least be trained so that didn’t happen.

  78. sb7mvp says:

    Football talk or political talk on this board is basically the same anyway so it doesn’t matter what’s being discussed.

  79. ElephantRider says:

    Texans and Cowboys players testing positive for covid.
    I think we can kiss this season good bye.

  80. wyoming85 says:

  81. Mike E. says:

    I would say this blog in really not much different than any other social media outlet. Most just spew their opinions and don’t really care much what the response is. Regardless, I love it anyway because we can all get together and joke about it once a year.

  82. stangerx says:

    Ezekiel Elliott@EzekielElliott
    HIPAA ??
    —————-
    Quiz of the day — Guess who has Covid….lol.

  83. wyoming85 says:

  84. wyoming85 says:

    Stanger, you hit the nail on the head! 😉

    • wyoming85 says:

      And you should really know who Chuba is!!
      One of the best NCAA RB’s last year!

      • stangerx says:

        You should know by now don’t follow college players….. till the draft comes up at least. Wanna check out his Wonderlic though after the OAN support. 🙂

    • Tim Knight says:

      Still not getting the issue with the OAN t-shirt?

      • Mike E. says:

        They support Trump

      • Tim Knight says:

        Oh of course how foolish of me. I check it out from time to time but don’t watch anything other than just some news reports. I don’t watch pundit round tables or anything like that.

        That kind of shit amazes me that a news network offends people. SMH

  85. wyoming85 says:

    Stanger
    He was actually saying that as long as his coach would wear a OAN shirt, he wouldn’t play for them!

    So yes we should check his wonderlick! 😉

  86. wyoming85 says:

  87. Mike E. says:

    Tim – I see shit on social media everyday, if you support Trump unfriend me, unfollow me, it’s so silly. What a criteria . . . .

    • Tim Knight says:

      I was down the shore this past week and had a conversation with my S-I-L who is black and a hardcore Democrat along with her daughter’s girlfriend who is white and more far left than the Democrats. During the conversation my S-I-L asked me if I thought Trump was racist and I said I really don’t know, I don’t know what’s in his heart. She said you can’t even admit that he’s racist. I said how can I, I don’t know. I know people accuse him of being racist but that doesn’t make it true.

      Then her daughter’s girlfriend stepped in and said I know he doesn’t like Trump because she heard me having a conversation with others the day before where we were all talking about him the same way you feel about him now.

      The conversation got a little heated at times but it cooled down eventually because they know me and that I’m socially liberal and not racist. It’s a lot easier to have conversations in person than on social media.

      • Mike E. says:

        100%. Words get twisted and meanings get lost in a few sentences here and there. I totally agree.

      • CavalierKong says:

        “It’s a lot easier to have conversations in person than on social media.”
        ——-
        This is so true. These subjects are so complex and nuanced that to try and distill opinions and thoughts, or discuss different aspects of ideologies, into a few paragraphs is so difficult it’s not worth it to try.

        Not to mention the aspect of a face to face conversation vs interpreting written word without tonal and facial cues for context.

        It’s pretty amazing we can get any actual points across in these written posts. LOL

    • CavalierKong says:

      It’s insane how personally people take this stuff – families split up, friendships lost, smh. As I said yesterday, the majority of my family are voting Trump, but I think he’s about as morally bankrupt as a person can be. We discuss and debate about him all the time, and it never gets nasty. We can get animated and passionate, but nobody storms off or disowns anybody.

      I know the people on this board that support Trump. It doesn’t change the way I see them or make me look down on them as human beings. We just disagree. I expect intransigence from people whenever I get into an argument, so I’m never disappointed by failing to change minds, lol.

      • Mike E. says:

        Damn, you’re good. Had to look up intransigence even though I got it by the context.

      • CavalierKong says:

        LOL, remember the dark ages – 20 or so years ago – when we had to have access to a dictionary in order to look up unfamiliar words. I carried a little red dictionary with me everywhere.

  88. wyoming85 says:

  89. Mike E. says:

    NEW BLOG UP!!!

  90. The Flying Pig says:

    Rob

    FISA applications go to a judge before any wiretapping begins. That satisfies the 4th amendment standards according to most modern interpretations. The FBI had to ask permission for the court before they wiretapped carter page (they didn’t wiretap trump….FYI). It’s not exactly analogous to a police stop and search

    FISA power has increased quite a bit since the patriot act and 9/11 too. There’s a good argument for curtailing it – but that’s an argument for serious people, and not some one who is going to check which way Trump’s farts are blowing before he takes a position.

    I wish I had the capacity to throw away 200 years of precedent as easily as you guys just to defend Trump and whatever direction his farts are blowing today – But it turns out I am aware that politics, the constitution and the courts existed before trump and I’m sure with serious analysis, instead of what is convenient just to make the latest MAGA argument of the day – the law and it’s proper application actually does make a lot of sense.

    Sometimes civil liberties take a back seat to pressing needs. Things like the war on drugs and the patriot act or post 9/11 legislation has affected how far we let police go including the fbi. That was my argument over the last couple of days.

    Its not new story – there’s always been a swinging pendulum on these subjects. It’s not just the last few years.

    So that’s there’s no confusion: I will make the same point

    The war on drugs has affected the way we interpret the limits of police power under the 4th amendment.

    ^thats the argument^

    That was always the argument. It doesn’t change based on who the president is or who I want the president to be. It’s not an invitation to discuss how badly you think trump was treated by the FISA court.

    If we don’t actively try to go back to our principles, after curtailing them, things just keep snowballing in the same direction. And that’s what happened after the war on drugs and since the 80s to the 4th amendment. It’s probably happened after 9/11 too and I don’t think it’s a bad argument to say the FBI is going way too far recently. But at least with FISA warrants there is a judge involved who can nix the wiretapping based on lack of evidence.

    When we talk about what is going on today with the police, I think discussing how policing has changed over the last few decades is relevant. That’s how we make productive changes.

    Honestly, I really don’t want to argue this stuff anymore. I spent my morning Sunday explaining how the 4th works, just for you pivot a day later and adjust them so you can say that liberals shouldn’t mention the 4th at all.

    When you aren’t thinking about trump or liberals or conservatives or democrats or republicans, everything I said about the 4th amendment over the last few days makes sense.

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