Dolphins very active before the 2021 NFL Draft

The first big mover was actually a subtraction from the roster as the Dolphins parted ways with LB Kyle Van Noy after recently (last season) signing him to a 4YR/$51M deal. That move was followed by the eventual trade between the Dolphins and the Texans which sent DE Shaq Lawson to HOU for ILB Benardrick McKinney. The Dolphins gave the Texans our 6th RD 2021 pick in exchange for their 2021 7th RD pick. Lawson played both OLB and DE for the Dolphins last season but never really hit his stride in our defense. Van Noy was brought here for his leadership and his playmaking, but the surprising rise of OLB Andrew Van Ginkel helped make Van Noy expendable. While AVG played mostly weak side and and Van Noy played primarily strong, both were interchangeable. I’m guessing the new #55 will undergo a uniform number change as the Eagles would say Ol’ 55, Jerome Baker owns that number. McKinney will definitely solidify the middle next to Baker and and the bigger (6’4 260) McKinney brings more physicality there while Baker brings the sideline to sideline quickness and speed.

In addition to McKinney, the Dolphins further solidified the run defense with the addition of DT Adam Butler. Butler was a rotational guy on the Patriots defensive line with only 12 starts in 4 seasons but he played in all but one game, and he averaged about 45% of the defensive snaps, so he had a good amount of playing time. He’s a DT that gets good penetration, with 20 tackles for loss, 15 sacks and 22 QB hits over parts of 4 NFL seasons. Unfortunately for former Dolphins DT Davon Godchaux, that most likely seals his fate and he most likely will not be returning here. (Update!) Godchaux has signed a 2 year deal with the Patriots, thanks to a couple of FMU NFL insiders.

On the offensive side of the ball, the Dolphins signed RB Malcolm Brown from the LA Rams. Brown while never a premier ballcarrier or workhorse, he brings a more physical running style than what we currently have in Myles Gaskin, Salvon Ahmed and Patrick Laird. Brown was basically the 3rd cog in the Rams run game behind Cam Akers and Darrell Henderson. Brown had a career high 419 yards on 101 carries with a 4.1YPC. He also caught 23 balls for 162 yards and had 5 rushing TD’s. I believe this still leaves the door wide open to draft a RB, even an early pick as I think we still need a talent upgrade there. The Dolphins just recently signed former Texans WR Will Fuller to a 1 year deal. Honestly, I never wanted any part of Fuller because although he has the speed we need, he’s a guy that has a tough time staying on the field, and considering the fact that we already have that in DeVante Parker, that doesn’t give our young QB any kind of stability when guys are constantly missing time. In any case, the Dolphins do get a guy who averages on the high end of YPR (14.9) overall but a career high 16.7YPR last season along with 8 TD’s. Also keep in mind that both Allen Hurns and Albert Wilson are set to return this season after opting out due to COVID last season. Wilson and Hurns together count less than $8M against the cap so don’t count them out just yet.

We didn’t get Joe Thuney, David Andrews or even re-sign Ted Karras, so the Dolphins decided to gamble on former ravens C Matt Skura. Much like Fuller was to me, Skura wasn’t really on my radar. Skura was a 4 year started for a stout Ravens O-line, but he has had injury issues, most recently having a devastating injury 11/19 in which he tore just about anything and everything in his knee including his ACL/PCL/MCL and dislocating his knee cap. To Skura’s credit, he toughed it out last season starting 12 games and playing in 15. As to whether he’s an upgrade over Ted Karras remains to be seen, but Skura was definitely the less expensive option. It’s once again, possible we draft a center with Creed Humphrey, Landon Dickerson Josh Myers, and Trey Smith available. Dickerson and Humphrey could go as early as 2nd RD but the others should be available in the middle rounds.

There are rumors still swirling linking former Seahawks RB Chris Carson and the Dolphins. While I have no problem with bringing in Carson, in my mind at least it would have made the signing of Malcolm Brown unnecessary, but Brown at $1.75M hardly breaks the bank. If we do get Chris Carson, that would almost certainly turn our attention away from drafting a RB early in this draft, meaning no Najee Harris, Javonte Williams or Travis Etienne.


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2,263 Responses to Dolphins very active before the 2021 NFL Draft

  1. son of a son of a shula says:

    Can I bitch for a minute?

    Those fucking folded up 16 times produce bags you roll out that are impossible to open. I have this facockta mask on so I can’t lick my fingers and this thing won’t open. I just want a couple of baker taters and some jalapeño why must it be so difficult?
    I remember rolling out a full size bag that anything easily went into – now- it’s a real struggle in the produce department.
    Grab three big ol taters in your hand and then say oh shit I better get a bag and then try and do it with the one free hand. It ain’t happening.

  2. son of a son of a shula says:

    If I’m being honest the player I like most in this draft is Mac Jones whoever gets him is going to get real good real fast.
    I like Trask kind of in the same way but he may not blossom as quickly.

  3. son of a son of a shula says:

    Doggy, the Tequila has been coming out at the tailgate making Sunrises or doing shots before we go in.

    • Phindog says:

      Never saw it or was never offered.. I guess I’ll take my ball and go home 🐕🥃🥃😎

      • son of a son of a shula says:

        Well that will never happen again
        (Actually Piggs poo pooed the Tequila last time and it never came out)
        You always have your drink going anyway
        Tequila is coming on Friday this time 😁😆😜

  4. son of a son of a shula says:

    We have the ammo to get Smith/Chase, Waddle, Harris and Jones if we wanted to I’m just saying

    • Krishna says:


    • Krishna says:

      I think the biggest take away for me was the idea that Tua needs to trust his instincts and make the throw. Mistakes are part of the learning process.

      I thought Tua showed excellent instinctual abilities at AL. That was easy as everyone was wide open. If he’s able to translate to the NFL, he will be fine.

      What Warner said….

    • steveccnv says:

      Not sure, if you’re knocking Orob or showing him an article that backs up his POV?

      A lot of what was written is what Orob has been saying, more uncertainty by both than anything else

  5. CavalierKong says:

    I had the same frustration with the damn veggie bags, lol.

    The best solution I’ve found is to rub your fingers on one of the wet veggies or something refrigerated like the bag of salad, which will have just enough moisture on the bag, and that does the trick. Most of the produce section has something you can use within reach wherever you are.

  6. Krishna says:

    Chestnuts roasting on an open fire, 100M shots, must be a liar…..

    Oops, wrong season, sorry.

    • steveccnv says:

      Throw him a fish, 1 out of a 1000, which you call success, but the comment was somewhat sarcastic and more rhetorical, than anything else

    • steveccnv says:

      He also said he was in the Senate for 120 years, over 300m have died in our country of covid. I could go on and on, but mostly I don’t read any of his propaganga

      • steveccnv says:

        The covid deaths were a little high, he actually said,

        Claim: Joe Biden said 150 million Americans died from guns and 120 million from COVID-19

      • Krishna says:

        Lmao, so you’re the one spread the bullshit lie. Thanks for the reminder. Carry on. Cracks me up!

  7. steveccnv says:

    SunSentinel says too many WRs?

    Before it was we need to upgrade, we upgrade and now it’s too many.

    I thought that’s what you’re supposed to do, bring in competition, and let the slackers, hasbeens and cants find a new home, like maybe Boston

  8. sb7mvp says:

    Well you know what they say, when you have 20 wide receivers you have no wide receivers.

    • steveccnv says:


    • steveccnv says:

      Well yeah, we’re going to have some changes made at WR, so a sane FO brings in competition to let the best men make the roster.

      The only thing I’m pretty sure about is Fuller, because of what we just signed him to, and Williams, who is productive and on a low end contract, and a drafted high pick rookie will be on the team.

      Parker is next to being a lock, but I wouldn’t count out a draft day trade.

      As for the rest, they better have a great camp

    • Krishna says:

      Yep. I call it a hole.

  9. bailbondmike says:

    Been gone this week and just catching up. Can’t remember who put up a list of our current WR’s but we have 12 on the roster. Perry is listed as a RB/WR and Kirk Merritt was left off the list.

    • steveccnv says:

      I put up a list of those that are either vets or have had playing time with us or are in the top 51, 9 deep, and said something has to give.

      Was mainly referring to some in the top 51, 6 I think, won’t be on the team this year, opening up some additional cap space, while Williams isn’t top 51, and we’ll be adding another WR in the draft

    • bailbondmike says:

      I gotcha, I was just quick scanning trying to catch up.

  10. bailbondmike says:

    Piggy, you mentioned Rondale Moore’s pro day. I brought him up a few times last year. He is a dynamic weapon in the mold of Grantman. He run’s in the 4.2’s and is an ankle breaker. He is always going to give you some YAC.

    What some don’t realize about him is he also has some power. At 5’7 he squats 600 pounds!

    • steveccnv says:

      I remember and why he was on my watch list. Being short is a problem, if you don’t mismatch in other areas.

      His speed and jumping ability help, but if his hands are suspect, he needs the strength and power, which he has, so I think he’s closer to Panther’s Steve Smith than Jakeem.

      In my post below I wrote about Parsons with our 1st pick, if we felt good at WR, but if we felt good about someone like Rondale, he could be a pick at 18, after Parsons at our 1st pick.

      Again, with so many options, we can’t screw…don’t want to jinx us by taking it further

  11. ocalarob says:

    these are some of the statements made in your link above by warner.

    Tagovailoa struggled at times on longer reads and plays, but he was really strong when it comes to quick reads and plays.

    In episode two, Warner again looks at how quickly Tagovailoa gets the ball out of his hand. He does, however, start to look at what happened when the play took longer to develop or Tagovailoa had to go through multiple reads. While a first-read throw was great for Tagovailoa, when it required further reads, Tagovailoa looked like a rookie,

    Tagovailoa was hesitant to make some of the chunk throws

    Tagovailoa needs to grow the point where, as Warner said, he does not “settle for those little check downs.”

    Now back to what i said earlier, why does he struggle in this manner?
    it’s because when the play takes longer to develop he gets these big OL & DL guys near him, due to his low side arm delivery he can’t throw the ball as there are obstructions in his way. he gets stuck.

    he’s good at the check downs or roll outs because he gets rid of the ball quickly with no one in his face.

    the only way to correct that is to change his throwing motion which i doubt he can do

  12. ocalarob says:

    as a qb if all you can do is roll outs and ck downs and you are unable to stay in the pocket and stretch the field that offense will struggle.
    you won’t have a running game because D’s will crowd the LOS.

    they will make tua beat them with his weaknesses which is the deep throwing game and will cut off his short avenues.

  13. steveccnv says:

    A coworker and Chargers fan wants them to trade with us to get Penei, but 13 is too far down I told him, but…

    If we believe we don’t need another WR…

    The problem is Penei doesn’t play QB, so I can’t see them giving up a boatload of picks, so it’s not going to happen.

    We also talked about Parsons. He says way too many red flags, but I didn’t agree.

    Anyways, going back to what if we believe we have enough WRs, would we be inclined to trade to maybe 9 or 12 and take Parsons?

    WR is deep in this draft

    • ocalarob says:

      LT’s are very valuable, the only pos more valuable is the QB position, A drop from 3 to 13 would require multiple 1st rnders and change.

      if we were to swap with the chargers and get their 1st the next 2 years and a couple of 2nds that may work as those picks may become valuable as the chargers always suck.

  14. ocalarob says:

    what good is having speedsters like fuller when you can’t get him the ball?

    • steveccnv says:

      He’s not a one Grant pony, he can play jump ball, go underneath…

      One of Tua’s many problems going deep was having a good deep threat

  15. ocalarob says:

    i think having too many low picks may not be good to fit these guys under the cap, another reason to trade out of the number 3 spot, that #3 guy will get a lot of money, not sure how much but you can bet it’s over 20 mil, trading back allows you more flexibility in the draft to get quality top 100 players

    • D says:

      Just look at last year’s contracts. It will be less than the number 3 pick got last year’s since revenues were down. Kinda like cap. If the cap goes up the rookie contracts do to but if it goes down vice versa

      • D says:

        Only one guy I’d stay at 3 for and that’s Pitts but I think we could trade back to 6-8 and still get him

      • steveccnv says:

        Interesting, but I’m not sure it’s based on the cap. Everything I’ve read says 5% increase from same slot last year is the standard

      • D says:

        We shall soon find out. I think they are based on the same factors as the cap but I don’t know this for sure

    • steveccnv says:

      Yeah, I don’t want any part of #3 for a lot of reasons, one being cap hit, even though I’m not worried about the cap I’d rather use the money better

      • D says:

        The cap hit is relative to cap amount do when the cap goes you the rookie contracts do so ever year it’s pretty much the same overall effect on cap. Can pretty much rule those out as reflective constants

      • steveccnv says:

        Stays the same, goes up 5%, goes down 5%…doesn’t matter its insignificant.

        5% of 10m is 500k, so not a factor for me trading down from 3 or not

      • steveccnv says:

        We’ll revisit this after the rookies sign, you can count on it😉

  16. D says:

    Grants problem is tiny hands and not overly strong ones to compensate.

  17. ocalarob says:

    if i were helping tua i would build a pvc structure, i would then drape pads down each side of the enclosure closing him in, i would put a barrel about 35 to 40 yards away. maybe put some obstructions in front of him.

    the pads would be so close that the only way he could throw the ball would be to get his arm vertical.

    and just let him try to hit the barrel from that configuration.

    • steveccnv says:

      Kind of like what they did with Purvis Short back in the day. His coach would hold a broom up in front of him and made him shoot over it.

      If anyone would go to that trouble it’s Tua.

      I think he can overcome his obstacles, but since OD is from Missouri…

      Tua listens to all of this negative talk. He must have a fire burning inside him like a Hawaiian volcano. We know he has the heart of a lion

  18. The Flying Pig says:

    ocalarob says:
    March 26, 2021 at 10:41 am (Edit)
    Grants main problem can be summed up in 3 letters.



    Completely agree….

    He had more catches (36)with Tua at QB than any other time in his 5 year career

    Playing with Tua is as good as he is ever going to get

    So Tua exposed what a mediocre receiver he was

    • steveccnv says:

      What Tua did was exposed what a mediocre receiver he was, because if you can’t get the ball out to where Grant is and he has to fight for it…

  19. bailbondmike says:

    Steve, with what we have now at WR, I would not spend an early pick on Rondale Moore. I would much rather take a chance on Parsons.

    • steveccnv says:

      I don’t know where Rondale is slotted, I said at 18, just to put a WR after Parsons, but for sure not with our 1st pick

  20. steveccnv says:

    Trying camp this year is going to be a lot of fun, with many different competitions going on, and some like ILB that we’ll be looking for dominance from.

    RB would be fun if they tackled, but should be good in preseason games, if they actually have them

  21. ocalarob says:

    Barring trading back
    Looking at draft positions of importance,
    QB is #1 overall.
    while it seems this F.O. is overwhelmingly happy with Tua and the acquisition of Brissett, i believe we can eliminate that position.

    Number 2 is OL, if the Jets take Wilson, Sewell will be there at 3 i would think they would take him if they can’t trade back due to not enough compensation.

    Number 3 is WR, If Sewell is gone to the Jets, you can bet there will be teams standing in line to get Wilson, i believe this is the best case scenario for Miami as they may get a kings ransom for that pick. however going by picking at #3 i would think they go with the best wr between smith and chase.

    I think T.E. is way down the list of positions of importance along with Safety & RB as it relates to the #3 over all pick

    • steveccnv says:

      For trading down, it kind of matters on what teams think about Wilson. If they think he’s 1b to Lawrence, then it’s better he’s there at 3, if they think QBs 2 – 4 are about the same, then we want the jets to go QB, because the run has started and those needing one will be motivated to get one at 3

      • ocalarob says:

        I hear Wilson is better than Lawrence

      • ocalarob says:

        Even though this T.E. from FL seems great, due to his position i think it’s highly unlikely we take him at #3

      • ocalarob says:

        I think there’s a huge drop off between Wilson and the next QB taken, and i don’t think the ohio st QB should be the next one taken, i think mac jones is better.

      • steveccnv says:

        I think Wilson is similar to a div II QB, because he lit it up playing subpar teams/talent. He sucked in 2019, then with covid and BYU being independent and no one to play, they had a soft schedule.

        Mac Jones didn’t look like much at the end of 2019, then wifh Saban loaded in 2020 and some covid advantages, he took off in 2020, but there’s something quirky with him that scares me. We saw him succeed with a coach, that put him in position to do just that, but I don’t think his talent transfers, unless big cheat gets ahold of him.

        As for Pitts, his talent warrants a Pick at 3, the draft board doesn’t, much better value to trade down.

        I’d even trade down from 3, getting just a 6-8 pick and a 2nd

  22. steveccnv says:

    Brooke Pryor
    · 19h
    Art Rooney II on a fan call about a 17-game schedule: “The 17 game schedule, I think, will work out well. This year will be the first year for it. We’ll get a chance to see how it goes. I think we’ll reduce the by one game.”

    Will it make preseason games more fun or less? You gotta get those challenging for a job some PT.

    it should reduce meaningless game injuries

  23. ocalarob says:

    The Flying Pig says:
    March 26, 2021 at 10:50 am

    Completely agree….

    He had more catches (36)with Tua at QB than any other time in his 5 year career

    Playing with Tua is as good as he is ever going to get

    So Tua exposed what a mediocre receiver he was

    I wonder how many of those yards Tua racked up against the broncos that Grant got?
    even if he got all 83 yards it would be an OK day for him?
    or how about the other 2 games that were under 100 yards passing?
    didn’t Tua have a whopping 93 yards against the Raiders?
    i think there was 3 more games that were under 200 yards passing?
    It’s a shame that Grant sucked so bad he couldn’t get in on those high output 100 yard avg passing games of Tua,

    what was i thinking?

    • The Flying Pig says:

      It was his best year

      Tua as a QB is not a good example of why Grant was not good last year, if it’s the best grant’s ever been

  24. Randy says:

    Warner didn’t say a word about Tua’s arm mechanics. I don’t believe he mentioned it once. His evaluation is completely different than what we’ve heard here. Sounded to me like Warner was saying Tua struggled with basic rookie stuff: speed of the game, going through his reads completely, trusting himself and taking chances, being aggressive. Again, not one word about these issues being because of poor arm or throwing mechanics. He didn’t say he didn’t make the deep throws because his arm mechanics were crap. He said it was because Tua wasn’t being aggressive enough or was being too safe. Rookie stuff. Completely different than claiming it’s because his throwing mechanics suck….which they don’t.

    • Mike E. says:

      What does Warner know about QB’s and throwing motions? He was a bagger in a supermarket! lol

    • steveccnv says:

      Warner said he struggled being aggressive. Orob took it a step further and said, its because he gets stuck due to his lack of height.

      Both identified the same problem, one said height the other rookie stuff.

      I don’t think arm strength is a problem. Mechanics I don’t think are bad, very good actually.

      Warner uses filters, he’s a TV personality he has to, Orob tells it like he sees it

  25. steveccnv says:

    Why did Tua struggle, when Burrow and Herbert lit it up?

    The excuse for Tua is the lack of offseason camps, but the other 2 had the same issue. Also his injury.

    What made Herbert and Burrow able to succeed was their receivers, plus it didn’t hurt, that their teams weren’t in the hunt. Herbert also benefitted from his legs, an easy transition. Burrows strengths in college transfered.

    What made Tua great in college were his receivers, Alabama’s talent, and his intangibles.

    In Miami, his struggles had to do with his injury, hurt WRs, lack of separation, inability to throw over the pocket, and his lack of NFL experience, caused his college strength of reading a D, to be nonexistent.

    While all 3 missed a full offseason program, it hurt Tua the most.

    I think a full offseason, including strength and conditioning will help him take the next step, but he’s going to have to figure out his height issue first.

    Other QBs have overcome it and he likely will too, but his ceiling will be determined by his ability to read a complex NFL D, and his ability to connect deep.

    If he’s able to get his intangibles to where they were at Alabama, he’ll at worst be a very good NFL QB.

    Add to that his ability to connect deep will make him a hall of fame.

    Lots of IFs, but lots of upside to where his ceiling can be. It’s worth at least another season, but at what point do you say we still aren’t sure, we may need to bring in a top rookie?

    Being at #3 this year, should we pull the trigger on competition? I say no, but that’s where the trade down comes in. When considering a trade partner, you must consider the possibilities of how bad that team will be this year, so that you have a high pick in 2022 to get a QB, should you need to.

    Might be better to trade with Detroit for less apparent comp, them with someone like Denver or SF

  26. mf13ss says:

  27. mf13ss says:

  28. Mike E. says:

    I guess we didn’t want to wait till draft day to see if there were any better offers. I can understand pulling the trigger now though, that’s a solid haul for sure.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Well if they are giving you 3 first rounders now there’s no reason to wait

      • Mike E. says:

        Yes, but you might have gotten close to that and an earlier pick in RD 1. I guess we’re happy to be picking at 12 and don’t have a specific player that we’re targeting that will be long gone by then.

  29. CavalierKong says:

    Get the fuck out of here! Is that real?

  30. The Flying Pig says:

    I sort of think SF is years away from being really competitive too

  31. mf13ss says:

  32. CavalierKong says:

    Patriots will trade for Jimmy G

  33. mf13ss says:

    Who’d have thought an ill-timed, bong-mask video surfacing late afternoon on Draft Day (April 21st, 2018) would reap us such a reward!

  34. mf13ss says:

  35. mf13ss says:

    Can I get a HELL YEAH?!!!

  36. CavalierKong says:

    Another trade with the eagles

  37. mf13ss says:


  38. The Flying Pig says:

  39. CavalierKong says:

  40. steveccnv says:


  41. mf13ss says:

  42. CavalierKong says:

    So we move back 3 spots, get a 3rd rd pick in 22, and a 1st rd pick in 23 and swap 4th rds?

  43. Rhino says:

    holy shit …. I can’t keep up. which 2022 did we move to Eagles… ours or the one from 49ers.

    SF moving made Eagles say ‘fuck it’ might as well move back.

    I’m in the middle of a big project so I am gonna wait for someone here to clean this all up and lay out where we are at. Once we went to #12 and had double 1st rounders for what would have been 4 years in a row, we must REALLY want somebody at #6 that we think will be there.

  44. steveccnv says:

    So we drop to 6 and gain just a 2023 1st and 3rd and exchange some picks in the 100s.

    Who’s calling the shots, that’s a shitty trade

  45. mf13ss says:

  46. The Flying Pig says:

    Hopefully we gave the eagles our first pick in 2022 (which should be last) and not the 49ers

  47. CavalierKong says:

    what’s the chart value on 3 to 6?

  48. The Flying Pig says:

    We gave up too much to move from12 to 6
    But we gave up stuff we had for 30 secs….lol

  49. mf13ss says:

  50. Randy says:

    Yuck. Give up a first rounder to move up 6 spots? No thank you.

  51. CavalierKong says:

    I guess if we weren’t taking a qb, and didn’t want Sewell and you figure that is the 1st three or four picks, then if we have a couple guys valued the same in that 4-6 range, we’re good moving down.

    I kind of feel this all might have been to get ahead of the Jest trading down before us, and getting stuck at #3 which we didn’t want to do. Pure speculation, as we don’t even know the full details yet

  52. sb7mvp says:

    Wow. Chris Grier showing MTP how you’re supposed to make a trade in the NFL.

  53. stangerx says:

    The one thing that was clear is the Phins wanted to be at #6 and not #12… and were willing to pay for that.

    At that spot one or two of the top 3 WRs and maybe Pitts will be available. Could be Sewell as well if he falls a bit.

  54. mf13ss says:

    Agreed with all of you who don’t like the Eagles trade… we certainly did give up too much with our 2022 1st rounder.

    • Rhino says:

      When I see it in print… perhaps Fins think this 6 picks in rds 1-3 IF they get whoever they are locked in on (Parsons Im convinced) that they can get past Buffalo… rather than wait until next year. It’s a hard sell, but that’s all I can come up with. lol

  55. Rhino says:

    Atlanta is now the team that will determine how many of top non-QB players we can choose from at #6:
    Jets aren’t patient enough, ever, so top 3 picks likely QB. Will Atlanta take the 4th (leftover)? Or will they just say screw it and take Sewell to lock down that spot for a long time. If so…

    Cincy would likely take Chase to reunite him with Burrow. That leaves Miami with choice of Smith, Waddle, Parsons.

    I think we wanted to stay ahead of Detroits #7 cuz Flores wants Parsons. If something happens this next month with Parsons then, sure, a WR makes sense…but I’m gonna stick with what my gut tells me that FLORES wants: a versatile linebacker, great vs run, great pass rush, play him all over the field. A guy like that, i believe, transforms our defense MORE than any of those WRs would transform our offense.

  56. Ken says:

    What just happened?

  57. The Flying Pig says:

  58. mf13ss says:

    CavalierKong says:
    March 26, 2021 at 1:42 pm
    what’s the chart value on 3 to 6?
    CavKong, that old ‘draft value chart’ was thrown away several years ago as the league advanced. That’s part of the reason why there is now an “EDGE” position, rather than labeling a guy a DE or OLB (see Terrell Suggs).

    Draft value is in the eye of the beholder now, and it was evidenced in our trade-down with the Raiders a few years ago… they took a CB and it broke the old ‘draft value chart’.

    It was Bill Parcells — if I recollect correctly — who devised the chart. It’s become antiquated and nobody follows it any longer.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      I think it was Jimmy Johnson basically in The same era
      But I agree – it’s antiquated now

      • mf13ss says:

        Yesss, I think you’re right about it being Jimmy Johnson. In fact, I’m sure! Good call.

      • stangerx says:

        Other places have tried to update to current, but not matter what a chart value is just a benchmark. Chart doesn’t know what is going on in a particular situation.

  59. The Flying Pig says:

    It was fun to say Tunsil landed us 4 first rounders while it lasted

  60. Rhino says:

    Quick calculation… draft value from #3 to #6 … the mid round swap and the 2023 first rounder could be evenish but devalued because of the extra year to wait… which leaves the extra 3rd rounder this year.
    An arguement could be made that all said and done its fairly even with urgency on this year’s draft … 7 picks in top 123…
    r1 two picks
    r2 two picks
    r3 two picks
    r4 1 pick (got back into the 4th).
    then we mow the yard during 5th and 6th rounds. lol

  61. mf13ss says:

    Rhino says:
    March 26, 2021 at 1:53 pm
    When I see it in print… perhaps Fins think this 6 picks in rds 1-3 IF they get whoever they are locked in on (Parsons Im convinced) that they can get past Buffalo… rather than wait until next year. It’s a hard sell, but that’s all I can come up with. lol
    My gut tells me that our GM and scouts are a lot more interested in Parsons than we’re letting on, but what about Steve Ross? That’s the whole thing about Parsons… he’s being accused of locker room shenanigans/bullying, which HAS to give Ross flashbacks of Richie Incognito and Bullygate.

    • stangerx says:

      Think Parsons would be much more in play at #12. But no one is saying we actually pick at six.

      • mf13ss says:

        JMO, I think we’re now locked into R1P6. I mean, we just saw more movement in 30 minutes than most teams have ever done before. We saw where we wanted to be and got the compensation we desired to be in that position. We were too early @ R1P3, and too late @ R1P12.

        We’re exactly where we want to be @ R1P6. Again, JMO.

    • Rhino says:

      The difference I think is that Parsons was barely 19 yrs old (typical d-bag age) whereas Richie was a grown man and veteran. All they need is probably interviews with him to determine if it was a ‘kid thing’ and he has grown beyond it.

  62. CavalierKong says:

    MF13, thanks for the response.

    Even if antiquated, it can still be used as a starting place to gauge relative worth. It’s not written in stone or anything, but it’s a tool like any other to assign value to a draft slot. According to this in 2021 it’s a 600 point drop to go from 3 to 6, or the equivalent of a late 1st or early 2nd rd pick. That’s all I’m talking about

    • CavalierKong says:

      Stang, exactly, it’s just a benchmark. I’m not trying to grade the trade, lol, I just wanted to know the relative worth of the picks themselves.

    • mf13ss says:

      I’m with ya, it’s a tool to gauge a relative starting point, not set in stone.

      And you’re welcome, man!

  63. The Flying Pig says:

    So now the first picks are QBs

    What will falcons do at 4?
    What will the Bengals do at 5?

  64. Tim Knight says:

    Okay what is the trade? Wow!!!

    • mf13ss says:

      It was bang-bang play… if you blinked, you missed it! Talk about fast-n-furious! Never saw anything like this happen/unfold so quickly between 3 teams. We made some moves!!!

  65. The Flying Pig says:

    I wonder if the bengals try to reunite Burrow with Chase?

  66. The Flying Pig says:

    It hard for me to imagine a scenario where Pitts or Smith isn on board at 6

    But Chase might go right before we pick

    • Rhino says:

      If Atlanta takes QB or CB (big need) our option at #6 is only lacking one player (whoever Cincy takes). I don’t see Atlanta going WR. We could certainly have ALL WR on board at #6.

  67. Rhino says:

    Falcons could also have Surtain III in play. IF that happened we’d still have a shot at Chase at #6 rather than #3 with the extra draft capital.

    So Falcons take QB or CB means only ONE player we could have had at #3 would be gone at #6 (whoever Cincy picks).

    I wonder if Fins were working both trades with the above logic in mind? They happened back to back so quickly.

    • The Flying Pig says:

      Yeah I think the falcons need a db

      • Rhino says:

        plus Atl has Jones/Ridley … if Atl takes Sewell, Cincy would have a HUGE decision to make by going OL with a reach, or WR. For sure though, no way Sewell gets past Cincy if he’s available.

  68. steveccnv says:

    Draft value chart says 600 pts, we gain maybe 200 pts difference in SFs 2022 1st vs ours assuming a 2022 1st is like a 2021 2nd, if we make the playoffs and they finish like 8 worst, then the 2023 1st, if you figure it’s like a 3rd this year is worth 265, the 2022 3rd being like a 2021 4th is worth just over 100 pts, so just less than 600 pts.

    Not good with that evaluation, but I don’t consider a future first like a current year 2nd, because if SF finish 8th from the bottom we get 1400 pts, far more than the 600.

    It’s better than staying put, but we could’ve done better

  69. stangerx says:

    The 2022 first round pick in the Eagles trade is the Dolphins’ own pick not the one acquired in the trade with the 49ers.

    Looks like the Niners are our new Texans. Do wonder when they were doing the deal which first round pick the guys thought more valuable.

  70. pheloniusphish says:

    Alrighty then

  71. The Flying Pig says:

    Everyone get ready to root against 49ers

  72. steveccnv says:

    I’m not locked in at 6, with all 3 WRs and Pitts possibly there at 6 why pick? Trade to 8 or 9

    • CavalierKong says:

      Actually, this could very well happen on draft day. Both Detroit and Carolina are still right behind us, and may be looking to get ahead of each other to get that right fit QB. One of them could potentially trade with us that slot or two, and we could get that extra capital.

  73. mf13ss says:

    The Flying Pig says:
    March 26, 2021 at 2:11 pm
    I wonder if the bengals try to reunite Burrow with Chase?
    Here’s the thing that flew under many radars… the Bengals signed LT Riley Reiff (33 years old, not ancient for a Tackle) to a 1-year contract @ $7.5M, last week or so. He’ll likely be starting RT for that money, opposite the upcoming Jonah Williams.

    So many pundits are certain the Bengals will select Penei Sewell… I say not necessarily. They may be targeting Chase, as you suggest above. I do NOT want to see that happen, either!

  74. steveccnv says:

    49ers like Lance, so do I, but if true I hope he’s a slow learner

  75. mf13ss says:

    steveccnv says:
    March 26, 2021 at 2:31 pm
    I hope they take Chase. My Chargers fan coworker hopes Sewell is at 6 and the Chargers trade for him
    But why would we have traded back up to R1P6 from R1P12… only to land further back @ R1P13? Under that scenario, we should have just stayed put @ R1P12, thus retaining one of our 2022 1st round picks we just traded to the Eagles. See what I mean?

    That’s why I’m saying we’re pretty much locked-in at R1P6… it’s where we always wanted to be, hence our trading today.

    • steveccnv says:

      What I was saying is we’re at 6 and on the board, there’s 3 WRs including Pitts and Parsons still on the board, any of those 4 may be OK, why not go down to 8 or 9?

      • mf13ss says:

        I suppose I’d be good with that! But no… not to trade down with the Chargers who sit @ R1P13.

  76. steveccnv says:

    123 to 156 = 21.6pts
    12 to 6 = 600pts

    Comp for our 2022 1st 590, when we win SB, 600 lose SB, at least 800 if we make playoffs assuming 2 WCs.

    No real winners and losers based on comp, where we win is, if the 49ers suck the next 2 years

  77. CavalierKong says:

    Whew, crazy morning! I think I’ll make a 3-layer pineapple-coconut cake today in celebration, lol.

  78. Tim Knight says:

    So basically a three team trade. We didn’t really give up a 1st round pick, the 49ers did to make this trade happen, our objective was getting to #6, and we picked up a few extra picks.

    • steveccnv says:

      We got a 2023 1st and 2022 3rd, and a swap of this year’s 4th with Phil’s 5th.

      I kind of look at it as getting a 2022 1st from SF, which may be pretty high, then giving up our 2022 1st for SF 2023 1st.

      We better hope we’re much better than SF next year or this trade really sucks.

      Also, we didn’t get comp like they were trading for a QB

    • CavalierKong says:

      We basically got a 2023 1st and a 3rd either this year or next to move down 3 slots (and we swapped to a later 4th).

      And like I said above I still think it’s possible we move down to 7 or 8 and pick up another 3rd or 4th.

  79. mf13ss says:

    Welp, if I don’t get anything else right regarding our draft, at least I was right about trading down! 😉

    I bet our FO is gambling (calculated, mind you) that the first 4 selections will be QBs this year. Cincy (as has been discussed above) is the only team that may become unpredictable: Penei or Chase.

    Regardless, we’ll have our choice of an elite weapon… whether it be on Defense (Micah Parsons), or Offense (maybe Chase, Waddle, DeVonta, or Pitts). 4 of these 5 are all but guaranteed to be there when we select… WINNING!

    • stangerx says:

      #6 with the extra draft chips ain’t a bad place to be. Only Q is if we got as much as we could have. And guess we’ll never know on that one.

      • steveccnv says:

        Absolutely not, we jumped the gun, but at least we didn’t stay at 3

      • mf13ss says:

        IMO, we gifted the Eagles that 1st round draft pick for 2022… we got hosed on that trade.

        Remember how the Cowboys used to be our #1 trade partner? It’s now the Eagles… and we’ve been doing favors for one another over the last several years, best as I can tell. I’d predict that the favor will be returned in due time.

    • Tim Knight says:

      We’ve decided we’re good in the top 6. It looks to me we added a 3rd from the 49ers along with a 2023 1st, and a 5th from the Eagles. Is that correct?

  80. stangerx says:

    A lot of the stories have been divided on whether we got a 2021 or 2022 3rd rounder in the San Fran trade. But a lot of them made clear it was a 2021 comp pick. That can’t be in 2022. I’d mark it down as an extra 3rd this year.

  81. ocalarob says:

    I heard nothing about trading back to 13?

    • CavalierKong says:

      Yeah, none of us heard that either, lol.

    • mf13ss says:

      Steve was talking about his Chargers buddy at work… that if Penei is still available when we pick at R1P6, that the Chargers would be interested in Penei. Chargers pick @ R1P13… that’s the problem. I wouldn’t trade back to R1P13 at this point.

  82. D says:


    • D says:

      Didn’t realize you can get a comp.pick for losing a coach lol. How much ya think we get for Flo?

      • steveccnv says:

        They didn’t GET a comp pick, I believe the Jets gave it to SF for being allowed to hire Saleh, who was likely still under contract by SF

      • D says:

        Oh ok I thought wow what a change in things. I get ya now. Still weird getting draft picks in exchange for coach lol.

    • steveccnv says:

      This one seems accurate Stanger. The 3rd is a pick this year #102 shows the draft value chart. The Saleh comp pick

  83. CavalierKong says:

    The way I see it, we hosed the Niners, but we really wanted to get one of a group of players that’ll be there at 6, so we took a not so great deal with the Eagles to get back into that position. I don’t really see this as two trades to grade, but rather the overall grade of both trades, because that was obviously the plan.

    So moving from 3 to 6 and swapping our 4th for a 5th netted us an extra 3rd this year and an extra 1st in 2023.

  84. ocalarob says:

    the bottomline, we move back 3 spots and gain a 23 first and this years 3rd, plus we move back from 123 to 156,
    not bad, i would’ve rather stayed at 12, i’m sure they did that because they are targeting a player that won’t be there at 12.

  85. mf13ss says:

  86. CavalierKong says:,49ers%20will%20receive%20two%203rd%2Dround%20picks%20after%20Jets%20hire,Saleh%2C%20could%20earn%20one%20more&text=San%20Francisco%2049ers%20defensive%20coordinator,for%20head%20coach%20Kyle%20Shanahan

    “As reported earlier, the other silver lining is that the 49ers will receive two compensatory third-round picks in each of the next two drafts (2021, 2022) as part of the NFL’s minority-hiring program. They will come at the end of the round, after the other compensatory selections.

    It may not end there, though. San Francisco could earn another third-round compensatory pick should VP of player personnel Martin Mayhew land the general manager job in Washington.”

    So the team that loses the minority coach gets a bunch of picks? Wtf?

  87. Tim Knight says:

    We didn’t give up anything, the 49ers did. That was the objective of this three team trade. We were the conduit to get the Eagles what they wanted which was extra picks, we got #6 which we wanted and the 49ers got what they wanted at #3. We gained picks, didn’t give up anything.

    • ocalarob says:

      we gave up 3 spots

      • Rhino says:

        but a high probability that of the 3 or 4 guys worth our #3 pick, all but one of them will still be there at #6. So, get one of the players we covet, and get a 3rd this year a additional 1st down the road. Who knows, that 2023 1st could be used to move UP from 2nd rd into end of 1st rd or such.

  88. D says:

    The trade back up for Pitts would be worth it imo.

  89. CavalierKong says:

    It sounds like if you have a minority coach on your team, and he gets promoted to another team, you get a compensatory pick. It’s effing bullshit, that we’ve been ahead of this game, and haven’t gotten squat. I’m sure the Pets will be getting boatloads of picks out of this somehow though.

    • mf13ss says:

      No, it doesn’t sound that way, it IS that way. Roger Goodell signed-off on this last year, if you didn’t already know.

      • CavalierKong says:

        I remember seeing something about this in the news last year, but I had no idea it had been put in place, nor did I understand the specifics

      • mf13ss says:

        And I 100% concur with you: it’s BULLSHIT!

      • mf13ss says:

        It’s essentially placing value on the color of one’s skin. I’m sorry, but that’s RACIST.

  90. CavalierKong says:

    lol, Stang

  91. ocalarob says:

    if wilson goes at 2, the talent is similar for a while after that so why not trade back.

    • CavalierKong says:

      Exactly. 3 QBs in the 1st 3, then Sewell at 4 or 5, so only one player we might want will be targeted before we pick.

      • stangerx says:

        But they don’t ask you “what slot do you want” either. Gonna be some jamming talent at #6, but I’d prefer #8.

      • CavalierKong says:

        I think it’s a fair possibility we move back to 7 or 8. If Detroit and Carolina vie for that 4th QB, we could come out ahead, and it won’t impact our selection at all.

  92. CavalierKong says:


    We’ll only get a boatload for Flores if he goes to another team and becomes the Grand Wizard or something stupid like that, lol.

  93. mf13ss says:

    To Mike E, Tim, Pig, Ken…

    How is the wind over there for y’all?!! MAN, it’s wicked over here in PA! Can’t really enjoy the 70 degree weather over here what with this WIND! MASSIVE gusts are happening, probably over 50 MPH.

    • stangerx says:

      M13 — next time we get hit by a Cane I’ll invite you over. Wizard of OZ shit goes down. 🙂

      • mf13ss says:

        LOL, I’ll be there! I’m fascinated by hurricanes and tornadoes… but SAFELY!

        The Appalachians generally break things up over here in PA, but we’ve had tornadoes here more frequently than ever before. Usually once a year over the course of about a decade or so. I’ve seen the funnel clouds come down, but I’ve never been directly hit by one (knock on wood).

      • mf13ss says:

        I want to say it was about 3 years ago, a tornado missed my crib by about 1 mile… too close for comfort, to say the least.

      • stangerx says:

        Get every place has something to worry about….. including the tornadoes where you live. I just read 50 MPH and think tropical storm. But then brag about the weather most of the year.

  94. mf13ss says:


  95. steveccnv says:

    ocalarob says:
    March 26, 2021 at 3:24 pm
    not sure if i understand your post?, if miami thinks sf will not be that good in 21, that bodes well for philly, not miami

    No we gave Philly our 2022 1st, which our front office thinks will be #32, we got SFs 2022 1st, which our front office thinks will be the first pick in the draft.

  96. The Flying Pig says:

    It’s really windy here in nyc

    More than the average 🐖💨

  97. mf13ss says:

    stangerx says:
    March 26, 2021 at 3:56 pm
    Get every place has something to worry about….. including the tornadoes where you live. I just read 50 MPH and think tropical storm. But then brag about the weather most of the year.
    Funny, isn’t it? Most places here in the USA have something to be concerned about… whether it be earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, drought, famine, or otherwise. And of states that truly needn’t be concerned about as much, they have inclement weather (as in too rainy, too hot, too cold, uninhabitable, etc,).

    I don’t hear too much out of Idaho and Wyoming… speaking of which… has anybody heard from our guy Wyoming lately? I hope he’s doing well.

    • stangerx says:

      Should have mentioned that 50 MPH might be a big deal where you live cause means trees going down, which is a serious pain in the ass. Our trees were born for such.

      Wyoming changed jobs. Think his new one does not include sitting in front of a computer and popping on the board as much.

      • mf13ss says:

        Yes… our trees get blown down, causing massive power failures throughout the affected powergrid. And it IS a major PITA (Pain In The Ass)! My power has flickered 4 times just today… each time, I thought I was going to be out for some time: time to buy a generator.

        Every place has it’s problems, man… no way to be problem-free.

        Thanks for getting to me on Wyoming… can’t wait to see him back here! Hope his new job is treating him well.

  98. Rhino says:

    The one thing about building draft capital, after #6 and #18 we have the ammo to move up into the 1st round for a 3rd 1st rounder like we did last year. Regardless of “value” it lets Flores/Grier get a specific guy.
    OR, for that matter… let’s say we want Parsons AND one of those top WRs … we have capital to move from 18 to, say, 12 if opportunity exists. FA has really provided a lot of opportunity to do whatever we need to for a game changer on both sides of the ball.

    • stangerx says:

      We have 2 picks in each of the first three rounds. Lots of ammo for sure.

      And could not be more with you on what we did in FA. Only thing we have to pick is an edge and we have all those picks.

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